Why do people think the country owes them something? [Bit of a rant about councils!]

[Lil-woowoo]

Well the reasons why student nurses and midwives get bursaries is because their course runs for 45weeks of the year and about 50% of that time we are doing work on wards where we work unsocial hours including weekends and night shifts. Nursing is a 24/7 profession. I don't know how long the social work course runs for. Instead of moaning about the nursery bursary which we do deserve try working a week as a nurse and I bet your perspective changes. I have a lot of respect for teachers and social workers as with being a final year student nurse I work along side social workers a lot and know what a good job they do, but the fact you don't seem to have much respect for nurses are you sure your in the correct job? Oh and social workers start on much more of salary than nurses x

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

My nursing tutour said sometimes I will be leaving home when it is dark and getting back when its dark

I cant wait until I start

Are you enjoying it hun?/
xx

 

[Lexx]

I never said nurses don't deserve their bursery, my gripe is the fact they get their fees paid which I don't think is fair and takes money away from the NHS that could be spent on patient care , improving services etc surely any conciencious nurse would agree?

I also never said nursing wasn't stressful I said it wasn't as stressful and I will give my reasons: Nurses work in teams so yes they maybe doing 12 hour days ( not unheard of in social work and teaching) they have other nurses around them to share the burden; they esstentialy follow instructions I am not undermining nurses skill but they are there to follow instructions from doctors they do not dignose patients and therefor do not have the stress of actualy finding out what the problem is doctors write the care plans the nurses impliment it; there is very little lone working in nursing social workers work on their own going into peoples homes who are very offten not happy to see them so are often in personal danger;the work load is imensly greater for social workers they can have upto 30 familys they are personaily responsable for and that means writing plans, attending meetings, implimenting changes and where children are being removed finding suitable accomadation, liasing with other services, reviews etc etc. Yes people do die in hosp and nurses will obiously care for them at the end of their lives which I imagine is very upsetting but at least they can comfort them selves that the chances are they have had a half decent live, compared to social workers who often have to deal with herdious scenes, deal with abuse that most people can't even contenplate.Do you think these things are easy to forget? That when social workers go home all these images and stresses of the day just disapear? If so then I'll send everyone some of my bursery to buy yourself a grip on reality. Personal responsabilty, when was the last time nurse Smith being draged thro the media and getting draged over hot coals because of alleged failings in her caring for a patient? The blame gest chucked appon the failings in the PCT or doctors or anyone but the nurses whereas if mistakes happen withen social services every social work that was involved is named and made to go thro an investigation.

Going out when its dark and coming home when its dark isnt exclusive to any profession its just called winter, I did it when I worked 9 hour days at macdonalds.

Britain's 20 most stressful jobs

1. Prison officer
2. Police
3. Social work
4. Teaching
5. Ambulance service
6. Nursing
7. Medicine
8. Fire fighting
9. Dentistry
10. Mining
11. Armed forces
12. Construction
13. Management
14. Acting
15. Journalism
16. Linguist
17. Film producer
18. Professional sport
19. Catering/hotel industry
20. Public transport

Taken from: https://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/stress/saw_work.html

 

[Lil-woowoo]

Actually nurses write care plans not doctors. Yeah doctors diagnose but much of the time they work with the nurses and it's not unknown for nurses to make a diagnosis. But studying medicine is a whole different ball game. The whole part of nursing is evolving each year, nurses can now prescribe and administer a lot more drugs than they used too. Also we now have advanced nursing practioners and if you lot at what sort of wort they do it's a lot similar to what a doctors role used to involve. The nhs don't pay my nursing fees it's the Scottish executive so it ain't taking money away from the nhs.

 

[Lexx]

Actually nurses write care plans not doctors. Yeah doctors diagnose but much of the time they work with the nurses and it's not unknown for nurses to make a diagnosis. But studying medicine is a whole different ball game. The whole part of nursing is evolving each year, nurses can now prescribe and administer a lot more drugs than they used too. Also we now have advanced nursing practioners and if you lot at what sort of wort they do it's a lot similar to what a doctors role used to involve. The nhs don't pay my nursing fees it's the Scottish executive so it ain't taking money away from the nhs.

Well in England the NHS pay, scotish fees are a whole different injustice.

 

[Pretty Pistol]

Wow that sucks.. its similar in the US people have like 6 kids and get welfare checks and section 8 housing... its sick I hate people abusing the system. But I do think the government should help with health care. We had to take medicaid when we got pregnant because my husband's job doesn't offer insurance too him and my school wouldn't insure me because I was already pregnant

 

[Lil-woowoo]

My nursing tutour said sometimes I will be leaving home when it is dark and getting back when its dark

I cant wait until I start

Are you enjoying it hun?/
xx

You will enjoy it Hun, hard work but worth it. You just need to get yourself into a wee routine at the start and do assignments in advance try not to leave to the deadline lol. There will be times when you question y your doing it everyone does x

 

[Lil-woowoo]

I totally agree that Uni students should not be in debt because of course fees, but maybe that's up to the government. Yeah English students have their nursing and midwifery fees paid, but in a sense when doing their training they are also working, cause we all know how students are meant to be supernumery but it ain't always the case a lot of wards cost cut when they have students and use them instead. Anyway think this is going to go round in circles

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Its not the nurses fault that the goverment decide that they shouldnt have to oay


At the end of the day why are you even arguing teh fact that social workers work harder of have it harder etc

I'm sure your tutors would not agree

You are part of a TEAM its called the multi-agency team. Where nurse, social workers,teahcers, police etc worl together to achieve an overall and holistic approach to the care of the people they are looking after

I'm sorry but comparing a job to mcdonalds is pathetic.

Nurses work bloody hard for a measly wage. if it wasnt for nurse the hospitals would not function!!
4
We dont follow orders in fact we do care plans and have to have one for each individual pathient

When My son was in hosp I have never met such a dedicated tema of women who cared for him in a way that made us feel like we mattered

xx

 

[helen1234]

I never said nurses don't deserve their bursery, my gripe is the fact they get their fees paid which I don't think is fair and takes money away from the NHS that could be spent on patient care , improving services etc surely any conciencious nurse would agree?

I also never said nursing wasn't stressful I said it wasn't as stressful and I will give my reasons: Nurses work in teams so yes they maybe doing 12 hour days ( not unheard of in social work and teaching) they have other nurses around them to share the burden; they esstentialy follow instructions I am not undermining nurses skill but they are there to follow instructions from doctors they do not dignose patients and therefor do not have the stress of actualy finding out what the problem is doctors write the care plans the nurses impliment it; there is very little lone working in nursing social workers work on their own going into peoples homes who are very offten not happy to see them so are often in personal danger;the work load is imensly greater for social workers they can have upto 30 familys they are personaily responsable for and that means writing plans, attending meetings, implimenting changes and where children are being removed finding suitable accomadation, liasing with other services, reviews etc etc. Yes people do die in hosp and nurses will obiously care for them at the end of their lives which I imagine is very upsetting but at least they can comfort them selves that the chances are they have had a half decent live, compared to social workers who often have to deal with herdious scenes, deal with abuse that most people can't even contenplate.Do you think these things are easy to forget? That when social workers go home all these images and stresses of the day just disapear? If so then I'll send everyone some of my bursery to buy yourself a grip on reality. Personal responsabilty, when was the last time nurse Smith being draged thro the media and getting draged over hot coals because of alleged failings in her caring for a patient? The blame gest chucked appon the failings in the PCT or doctors or anyone but the nurses whereas if mistakes happen withen social services every social work that was involved is named and made to go thro an investigation.

Going out when its dark and coming home when its dark isnt exclusive to any profession its just called winter, I did it when I worked 9 hour days at macdonalds.

Britain's 20 most stressful jobs

1. Prison officer
2. Police
3. Social work
4. Teaching
5. Ambulance service
6. Nursing
7. Medicine
8. Fire fighting
9. Dentistry
10. Mining
11. Armed forces
12. Construction
13. Management
14. Acting
15. Journalism
16. Linguist
17. Film producer
18. Professional sport
19. Catering/hotel industry
20. Public transport

Taken from: https://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/stress/saw_work.html

you have no idea whatsoever what a nurses role is

i was a student nurse for 18 months and dropped out when my daughter got very sick, i can go back to it when i want to pick up on 2nd yr.

i was kicked punched, puked on, spat on, scratched, pinched, bit and verbally attacked when on placement in a&e its a very dangerous job and a thankless job at that dealing with deaths and looking after not just patients but relatives too.
i was working shifts and didnt have proper breaks, i walked miles in one day running up and down corriders with blood etc etc. in my first year i wrote many of the care plans you say nurses don't do.
and for your information the nurses run the wards NOT the doctors lol doctors spend a few hours on wards lol, thats why its called a doctors round.
the theory and practical exams are not failled one failure and you are thrown off the course wether thats your 1st essay or your last. doing a nursing degree is not 9-5 so a bursary is needed and if they didnt give a bursary no-one would do the hands on work at all, wards rely on student nurses as part of their staffing rota's as most of us were on the ball and helpful.

and nurses do get a backlash, as i was on a ward where an abortion was given to a 14 yr old we were told under no circumstances take flowers from patients as the media was outside and not to go home in our uniform as they were looking to pounce on the nurses.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I agree with you Helen! The nurses and lab people are the ones running the show, doing the actual care and tests and diagnosing.

 

[tasha41]

Okay I am coming to the nurses' defense.. I can't NOT say something because personally nurses have cared for me better than any doctor I've ever had, my mom has dedicated her life basically to nursing and really they deserve better than to have someone say "I'm sick of hearing poor nurses, poor nurses".

Actually nurses, in a way, have a lot more responsibility than doctors do. A nurse may check on you 4 times a day if you aren't a critical case and a doctor MAY check on you once per day. It's the nurse's responsibility to monitor you etc. A medical resident came to check on me one morning when I had been complaining about feeling ill for 2 days after having my baby and said I was fine and healing well. A couple hours later, a nurse noticed that I had cellulitis all over my lower abdomen and that it was really warm to tocuh and arranged for a doctor to come check it out. She knew exactly what was going on (womb infection) but legally she wasn't able to diagnose it or order any drugs for me.

My mom is a Registered Nurse (since 1985) and has been punched, hit, bitten, had a chair thrown at her, been hit with a fire extinguisher, been verbally abused, etc by mental health patients as well. She works in mental health currently and her patients sometimes cut themselves. Kill themselves. Threaten to kill themselves. A program they are currently running collects their patients' dirty needles and cutting instruments to toss away.

Nurses run triage at the hospital. They are responsible for evaluating how sick this or that person is, who needs to be seen immediately and who can wait. Nurses in the emergency room have drunks, drug addicts, people with mental disorders, people who are dirty, physically ill, and sometimes just very agitated to contend with. Yeah, they can call security but they're the ones on the front lines really, not every patient that walks in has a security escort to protect the nurses.

Nurses have to often make the call to call in social workers Nurses have to care for children, wives, I guess men too who are physically abused, raped, etc by someone. Nurses see babies die, old ladies die, teenagers die, etc.

Not saying the job of a social worker isn't stressful/as stressful/more stressful but to say that oh it's easier/less stressful etc to be a nurse is a sweeping statement that can't be fairly made IMO. You sound like you're just pissed off because they get it and you don't, TBH. Sorry life's not fair, but don't pick on nurses!

 

[Blah11]

I get sick to death of hearing poor nurses this poor nurses that they get burserys, student loan and their fees paid its a joke. Yes it is posible to work while doing social work and teacher training but not if you actualy want to do any well on your course! I know student nurses who do early shifts finshed at 1400, why can they work after that doing auxillary work? My first social work place ent will be 40 hours a week in the work place and I will still be expected to keep up with my studys attened touturials etc.

Sounds like just about every other student on any vocational course. It is possible to work as well as doing these courses and still do well. Plenty of people do.

The nurses bursaries are there for a reason, not just because they decided life should be unfair for all other students.

What reason is that then? Because they find it difficult to work, as do social work students. Because there is a massive shortage of nurses? Wrong there is no shortage however there is a masisve shortage and a goverment campagin to recruit more social workers, but wheres the insenstive for them to become social workers; they have to pay fee loans unlike nurses, the placements are longer and more intense than nurses. Read the latest Nursing Times student nurses are refusing to do the basic tasks such as clean patients and change beds as its 'below them'! Then when social work students graduate they are upto their necks in debt where as nursing students are pretty debt free or at least should be if they managed their money well and then get jobs that are only a couple less grand a year for alot easier and less stressful job! Its madness!

LOL @ all this rubbish.

 

[Blah11]

& I just want to echo what everyone else has said RE nurses just follow instructions...

Nurses do not work under doctors. They work alongside them. 9/10 times, the doctors ask the nurses for their opinion on a diagnosis because the consultant see's a patient for 10mins a day, a nurse see's the patient on&off for 12 hours. Usually, it's the nurses who alert the doctors to a problem or ask the doctor to have a look at a patient because they arent being their normal self. On a typical ward of 24 patients, there's 2 trained nurses, 4 untrained nurses and 1 doctor. OBVIOUSLY the nurses are going to know more about the individual patients.

 

[danni0509]

hi
i get pissed off with people who abuse the benefits system!!!
me and my hubby both work full time in fact we work (110 hours per week between us!!) that is 55 hours each a week!! so you can probably guess we pay a lot in income tax
we dont have children yet (we have been ttc for the past 7 years)
we are both up at 4.30am 6 days a week and dont arrive home until late evening, we have 1 day off a week which is spent at the supermarket doing the shopping and out paying the bills as we dont have time in the week, i barely have enough sleep, by the time im home at 7pm i have to make the tea and do the washing and clean the house and then i have a bath have 30 minutes "me" time (reading a book or doing my excersice dvd) then off to bed and then before you know it i am awake again to start the whole day again!!
i am a cleaner and my husband works in a fish factory so not the best paid jobs in the world, not much more than minimum wage
this is what we have to pay out

rent
council tax
weekly shopping
electric
water
tv licence
loan repayments from years ago that we are still paying off now
travel fare to work and back for the both of us

we dont have a great deal left over if i am being honest, maybe enough for a trip to the pictures a couple of times a month and a few quid leftover if we need anything
i never buy myself anything new, we dont drink or smoke so no money wasted there.
anyway im getting side tracked the purpose of me writing this was to say it bloody annoys me how we both work as hard as we do and we always have done may i add!! and then my next door neighbour has 3 kids on benefits never got off her arse and done a days work in her life and she seems to have a much more comfortable life than us!!!!
i dont want to hear "but you dont know her circumstances" or "there might be a genuine reason why she cant work etc.." because it is utter shit, she doesnt work because she doesnt want too, and there are plenty more just like her!!!
i am totally fed up with all these idiots thinking they can hitch a free ride off the taxpayer, i wouldnt dream of ever doing it so why do these people think that it is ok?!?!
my neighbour has a peaugot 206, plasma tv, fancy xmas decorations, she goes on a nice holiday once a year with all 3 kids and then has a "girly holiday" with just her adult friends, her and her kids dress in trendy up to date clothes and all of this is while she is on income support!!! and the rest of the benefits that goes with it!!!
i used to talk to her quite often but i cant bring myself to say "hiya" these days, ok so im probably jelous of the things she has but why the hell shoud she have them if i cant when i work as hard as i do?!?
benefits a lot of the time are given to the wrong people for the wrong reasons..THEY CERTAINLY NEED A MAJOR OVERHAUL!!!

 

[MrsRH]

Okay I am coming to the nurses' defense.. I can't NOT say something because personally nurses have cared for me better than any doctor I've ever had, my mom has dedicated her life basically to nursing and really they deserve better than to have someone say "I'm sick of hearing poor nurses, poor nurses".

Actually nurses, in a way, have a lot more responsibility than doctors do. A nurse may check on you 4 times a day if you aren't a critical case and a doctor MAY check on you once per day. It's the nurse's responsibility to monitor you etc. A medical resident came to check on me one morning when I had been complaining about feeling ill for 2 days after having my baby and said I was fine and healing well. A couple hours later, a nurse noticed that I had cellulitis all over my lower abdomen and that it was really warm to tocuh and arranged for a doctor to come check it out. She knew exactly what was going on (womb infection) but legally she wasn't able to diagnose it or order any drugs for me.

My mom is a Registered Nurse (since 1985) and has been punched, hit, bitten, had a chair thrown at her, been hit with a fire extinguisher, been verbally abused, etc by mental health patients as well. She works in mental health currently and her patients sometimes cut themselves. Kill themselves. Threaten to kill themselves. A program they are currently running collects their patients' dirty needles and cutting instruments to toss away.

Nurses run triage at the hospital. They are responsible for evaluating how sick this or that person is, who needs to be seen immediately and who can wait. Nurses in the emergency room have drunks, drug addicts, people with mental disorders, people who are dirty, physically ill, and sometimes just very agitated to contend with. Yeah, they can call security but they're the ones on the front lines really, not every patient that walks in has a security escort to protect the nurses.

Nurses have to often make the call to call in social workers Nurses have to care for children, wives, I guess men too who are physically abused, raped, etc by someone. Nurses see babies die, old ladies die, teenagers die, etc.

Not saying the job of a social worker isn't stressful/as stressful/more stressful but to say that oh it's easier/less stressful etc to be a nurse is a sweeping statement that can't be fairly made IMO. You sound like you're just pissed off because they get it and you don't, TBH. Sorry life's not fair, but don't pick on nurses!

I'm sorry but I have to object to some of the things you have written.
I am a qualified doctor of over 12 years. Doctors do have a lot more responsibility than nurses. The buck stops with them. If they miss anything, misdiagnose, prescribe the wrong drugs/dosages or don't act in time, it's their responsibilty. That's why we study for 5+ years , do post grad exams and pay thousands of pounds per year in medical insurance fees just to work!!!

I do have a lots of respect for nurses, they do have a tough time. During my career, I've seen nursing change. Nurses don't do as much hands on caring, there's now a lot of pen pushing. They are often the front line as you say.

During my time working in hospitals, I've worked with lots of excellent nurses who's opinions I have respected. Doctor and nurses have different, but complimentary roles. Doctors can't be on a single ward 24 hours because they have several wards to look after, out patient clinics, theatre if they are surgeons, paper work, emergency on call cover etc.

Also nurse do get defined shifts and breaks. The longest 'shift' I worked was from Sat 9am to Monday 6.30pm with very little sleep looking after a few hundred patients in a cancer hospital. I have lost count of the number of time I have missed meals or eaten on the run.

Just to stick up for doctors!!!
xxx

 

[tasha41]

^ I said in a way they do, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying doctors don't have any responsibilities, sorry! My cousin is in medical school and I know they have a lot on them

 

[MrsRH]

^ I said in a way they do, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying doctors don't have any responsibilities, sorry! My cousin is in medical school and I know they have a lot on them

no probs, a sensitive hormonal new mummy!!!

Doctors always get a slagging, esp in the uk.

xxx

 

[Tegans Mama]

I haven't read all of this thread but I did intend to. However I soon got bored of the same statements being repeated.

What about the people who get benefits, as a long term thing, but actually need them? My household is just like that. I have bipolar disorder - and 50% of the time I seem fine. However the other 50% of the time I am most definitely not fine, and I am classed as unable to work by medical professionals because of the way I act around people I don't know when I'm ill. However - you don't know this by looking at me. Maybe I should get a job and just be put in prison for the way I behave due to a medical condition that I cannot help.

Likewise, my OH doesn't work. Because of my bipolar disorder, I can't cope with looking after our daughter by myself (yes, we've tried it). OH gets Carer's allowance for Tegan (because she gets DLA, again, something we are fully within our rights claiming).
So, long story short, for us, benefits aren't a short term thing. I need someone to help me look after Tegan, and OH is the easiest and most sensible option.

The same goes for a lot of people who are disabled, or mothers who have disabled children. Threads like this make people who are deserving, who have worked during their lifetimes and due to unfortunate events now need the help the government is offering.

We don't live in council housing. We did, for almost a year just before and after Tegan was born because I literally had no where to go. I was moved to the top of the list when I went into the council office, because I was seen as very vulnerable - someone with severe mental illness, who was pregnant and carrying a child with a disability. Surely that doesn't make me undeserving..

However, what does piss me off is people who claim disability benefits when there is nothing wrong with them. We had to fight to get them for me (three years ago) and again to get them for Tegan, even though I have never met a person who needs them more than she does. She was born disabled. She can't use her legs and needs a lot more care than your average 1 year old.
One of my sisters friend's Mum claims DLA for her son. He is perfectly healthy, has nothing wrong with him and she is ripping the piss out of the system by claiming everything we claim for Tegan, for him. Makes me sick.

 

[Foogirl]

What about the people who get benefits, as a long term thing, but actually need them?

I think quite a few people here have made the point that the benefits system is there to help people in given circumstances. Short term for those who find themselves in the situation where they can't find work etc and long term for those who have a genuine disability or become carers. This isn't what most of us have said we have an issue with. It is those who abuse either system when they are perfectly capable of working and supporting themselves.

My particular gripe is to those women who are on benefits, who have children and choose not to work because their "moral" code insists they should stay at home with their children rather than go out to work because they say this is what is best for their children.

And us taxpayers have to foot that bill, whilst many mothers would love to have that option but get no help whatsoever.