Would you let a newborn cry it out?

[jd83]

Actually in my post to OP, I DID say that sleep training is unacceptable in a newborn. So not sure where you are getting that I support others saying its okay? I clearly stated in my post to OP that its not to be used in newborns.

ETA: I don't think my good experience excuses others misusing the method, just to be clear. I have stated every time I mention using it that it should be used when age appropriate, and when needs appropriate, ie other methods haven't worked, and there is actually a NEED to use a method. Not jsut because your child wakes once or twice a night. I don't feel that's a NEED to sleep train, that's just normal.

 

[staralfur]

And the one time I bothered to look at the new website created by the professed "sleep training queen", there were two support threads for different members who sleep trained so that their evenings were free, with everyone basically saying "of course! everyone needs some adult time!". Made me ill.

What are you referring to here?

 

[chickenlegs]

We didn't sleep train. Didn't like the idea. We now have an 18 month old who has NEVER slept through the night and wakes up at 4.45. Looking back, Im not convinced we made quite the right decision.

 

[elizah1980]

Why is it so important what other people do with their children? Isn't looking after your own children a job enough?

I find it funny that people can spend the entire day arguing useless points on BnB, while insinuating that they're better parents.....what is YOUR lo doing when you're on the computer all the time?

 

[HanaK]

What even. Who says that, exactly?

I've seen posts similar to that on here before, not lots, but some here and there.

I notice it a lot more in the replies to "please help" sleep threads than in the op of the threads themselves-- the same people suggesting that they limited duration and frequency of daytime naps and then saying "we did cc/cio/whatever and now they sleep well". I've seen it frequently professed that people need "me time" in the evenings-- and if you pay attention, these are the same people that did cio to get their child to sleep in the evenings. In terms of that quote, I've seen it either exact or equivalent thrice on bnb in the past month.
And the one time I bothered to look at the new website created by the professed "sleep training queen", there were two support threads for different members who sleep trained so that their evenings were free, with everyone basically saying "of course! everyone needs some adult time!". Made me ill.

Seems you have more free time than most to lurk. I suggest you don't reference other forums on this thread.

 

[elizah1980]

Unless a child is being neglected, abused or mistreated in some way, it's none of my business how they sleep, how they are fed, etc.

It's hard enough being a parent without other parents kicking you when you're down.

 

[HanaK]

And just to defend someone who is not here to do it themselves - the reason she was held in such high reverence was and is because of her ability to look at and analyse points and research objectivity. She has never had an agenda. This is rare IMO.

 

[weejenb]

Letting a newborn CIO isn't really a good idea - newborns are too young to be 'trained' in any way. Picking her up and cuddling her when she is upset just now won't make her 'manipulative' in any way, i.e she won't cry just to get you to pick her up, newborns need lots of cuddles at that age.
I've never had to do any real sleep training with my LO, he's always been a fairly decent sleeper. But I have done my research on it, and I would do it if I had to with other children. As others have said, it hasn't been explicitly proven if it's harmful or harmless, there are many conflicting studies out there. However I'm in the camp of believing that sleep deprivation in a child is far more disturbing for them than a few nights (or however long it takes) to settle into a new sleep routine. I think the problem really is that a lot of people think that sleep training just involves letting them cry for hours on end until they fall asleep, when the reality is that there are many methods of sleep training which are very effective, and certainly not cruel or dangerous. But I do think that any type of sleep training shouldn't be undertaken until the child is older, as before then they won't learn anything and its just distressing to mum and baby.

 

[MiniKiwi]

And just to defend someone who is not here to do it themselves - the reason she was held in such high reverence was and is because of her ability to look at and analyse points and research objectivity. She has never had an agenda. This is rare IMO.

and because she gave up so much of her time to offer advice and hugs to those of us who were struggling to cope.

 

[MommyJogger]

What are you referring to here?

The site created by the task force people-- the one we all got a message for inviting us to join.

Why is it so important what other people do with their children? Isn't looking after your own children a job enough?

I find it funny that people can spend the entire day arguing useless points on BnB, while insinuating that they're better parents.....what is YOUR lo doing when you're on the computer all the time?

Some people actually care about children in general and not just our own kids.
My child is in daycare. I'm at work. The nature of my work at the moment (and has been for a while now because of how some experiments worked out) requires the setting up of very long-term experiments and then a lot of wait time, some of which I spend here. If I can count on the wait time being long enough (I usually have to watch it), I go play with and nurse my son.

Seems you have more free time than most to lurk. I suggest you don't reference other forums on this thread.

I think you're confusing having a photographic memory with 'lurking'. I can't help it when people maintain avatars for a while and I happen to see a lot of their posts and connect the dots.
And your strawmen still don't excuse you for advocating newborn cio and proclaiming that it does no harm.

 

[fieryphoenix]

And the one time I bothered to look at the new website created by the professed "sleep training queen", there were two support threads for different members who sleep trained so that their evenings were free, with everyone basically saying "of course! everyone needs some adult time!". Made me ill.

What are you referring to here?

Some members, who are no longer with us on bnb, created a new website and all of them went there to chat

 

[elizah1980]

I care about children in general. But it's not my business what goes on in other people's homes, nor is it yours. I noticed that you chose not to respond to my post about extreme sleep deprivation and severe PPD/suicidal ideation. That is something real, that happened to me. Not just bullshitting behind a keyboard. Even at that point I still didn't sleep train, due to the immense guilt I felt from posts and stories like this.

If a child is not being abused, and CIO is not abuse (if you think it is I suggest you take a look at the real world) what is the problem?

 

[MommyJogger]

And just to defend someone who is not here to do it themselves - the reason she was held in such high reverence was and is because of her ability to look at and analyse points and research objectivity. She has never had an agenda. This is rare IMO.

Since she is no longer a member here, I feel comfortable saying that despite her general kindness, that girl was a rare idiot. She certainly looked into how to perform sleep training-- but she has neither the background nor the mental capability to critically evaluate the research. A degree in sociology (was that it?) doesn't exactly prepare you to dismantle statistics and methods of psychobiology research-- if she even bothered reading it.

 

[elizah1980]

How mature of you to call someone an idiot because they don't agree with you. Way to be empathetic and caring.

 

[elizah1980]

I guess you care about children but not other adults? So you spend your free time shitting on other moms.

 

[elizah1980]

Did you know that sleep is important for a child's development? Is it healthy for a growing, active child to spend the night waking up and refusing to go back to sleep? I guess you already know that, because you know everything.

 

[elizah1980]

There would be no "mommy wars" if it wasn't for cruel and judgmental people like those here on the forums.

Why don't you worry about your own child and free yourself from the burden of saving every other child from even uttering a cry?

Good luck with your future spoiled brat, who will probably come into your bedroom 5 times a night because they can't sleep on their own.

Did you know that there's a link between extended cosleeping and divorce??

 

[MommyJogger]

I care about children in general. But it's not my business what goes on in other people's homes, nor is it yours. I noticed that you chose not to respond to my post about extreme sleep deprivation and severe PPD/suicidal ideation. That is something real, that happened to me. Not just bullshitting behind a keyboard. Even at that point I still didn't sleep train, due to the immense guilt I felt from posts and stories like this.

If a child is not being abused, and CIO is not abuse (if you think it is I suggest you take a look at the real world) what is the problem?

I chose not to respond because I don't know your story. I don't feel qualified to comment on it and I'm not going to tread into a minefield that may get me banned because anything I say is just going to give you ammo for hitting the report button.
And it's been said before and deserves to be said again: just because something doesn't legally qualify as abuse doesn't mean that it's hunky dory. Parenting should not be a race to the bottom and no one should make a decision about something solely based on whether it meets the legal definition of abuse. It used to be legal here to beat your child with a rod. It was not considered abuse. Does that mean that beating your child with a rod back in 196# didn't damage them?

 

[staralfur]

You feel comfortable calling someone an idiot because they're not here to defend themselves?

What a coward.

I'll assume that a ban shortly follows this post, but while I'm still here I'll have the balls to say this to your face...

MommyJogger, your agenda takes priority over helping anyone. It is abundantly clear that you do not give a shit about helping anyone or offering any empathy. Your main concern is being right. Spew as much shit as you want about having the super impressive mental capability to analyze journal articles (you're not the only person able to do so, by the way), but you are an overbearing, judgmental asshole. It makes me fucking sick that people like you are allowed to parade around on a SUPPORT forum while making a bunch of people feel like shit.

 

[weejenb]

And just to defend someone who is not here to do it themselves - the reason she was held in such high reverence was and is because of her ability to look at and analyse points and research objectivity. She has never had an agenda. This is rare IMO.

Since she is no longer a member here, I feel comfortable saying that despite her general kindness, that girl was a rare idiot. She certainly looked into how to perform sleep training-- but she has neither the background nor the mental capability to critically evaluate the research. A degree in sociology (was that it?) doesn't exactly prepare you to dismantle statistics and methods of psychobiology research-- if she even bothered reading it.

I think it's unfair of you to bash someone who isn't here to defend themselves. How do you know she doesn't have the background or mental capacity to evaluate research? And even if she technically doesn't have the required degrees, she was still incredibly knowledgeable and helped out more people on this site than I could list.