Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

[blutea]

In fact, lol... I think the risk sheets for the vaccines should also list the risks of getting the disease and give the statistics for both. I think that would be very useful information.

It would be fantastic if they listed the risks of disease because then people could make an informed decision. In my humble opinion, more people would probably choose not to vaccinate if they knew the true disease statics against the true adverse reactions rates of vaccines.

Does it not occur to you that the disease prevelance is so low because most people vaccinate?

Are you kidding me!? Do you really think that vaccines are the only reason? As if have stated time and time again: Without better health, sanitation, living conditions, better nutrition...vaccines would not have an effect. They are only one piece of million piece puzzle.

Then explain why vaccines are so effective in 3rd world countries where they don't have the healthcare and sanitation!

Show me the evidence that actually shows that. From my research they truely are not as effective in 3rd world coutries.

 

[blutea]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

In fact, lol... I think the risk sheets for the vaccines should also list the risks of getting the disease and give the statistics for both. I think that would be very useful information.

It would be fantastic if they listed the risks of disease because then people could make an informed decision. In my humble opinion, more people would probably choose not to vaccinate if they knew the true disease statics against the true adverse reactions rates of vaccines.

Does it not occur to you that the disease prevelance is so low because most people vaccinate?

Are you kidding me!? Do you really think that vaccines are the only reason? As if have stated time and time again: Without better health, sanitation, living conditions, better nutrition...vaccines would not have an effect. They are only one piece of million piece puzzle.

Then explain why vaccines are so effective in 3rd world countries where they don't have the healthcare and sanitation!

Show me the evidence that actually shows that. From my research they truely are not as effective in 3rd world coutries.

then why on earth waste money on them?

 

[Blah11]

A few years ago Gambia managed to eriadicate Hib through a vaccination program so idk what you're talking about?

 

[lisaf]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

The risk of getting a disease varies too greatly as people travel, are exposed, are vaccinated, skip a vaccination, miss booster shots etc
Its impossible to predict and is a constantly changing number. To say otherwise is to misrepresent the truth.

Thats why it would do no good. If you spray ant poison every day... and then determine that the risk of getting ants is so small that you shouldn't risk the poison.... and you stop spraying... the risk of getting ants will increase.

 

[blutea]

If they say that something like whooping cough is rare... then a child gets it because most parents chose not to vaccinate that year as a result.... they would get sued.
What they CAN do is list the possible complications and survival statistics IF the child were to get the disease... then list the possible complications and statistics of having a complication for the vaccine.

Some diseases have a death rate of 1:1000 ... yes it may be rare to get the disease in the first place (due to vaccination) but when it is contracted, thats a very high death rate and I think parents should know that. If 10:1000 children with the disease are left with brain damage and 40:1000 are left with some serious debilitating injury from the disease... it kind of makes the 1:100,000 chance of having a reaction from the vaccine seem like not such a scary thing.

I didn't explain this earlier because I figured you knew it. But whooping cough is on an increase because it has mutated and the vaccine does not offer protection for this new strain. Not because people are not vaccinating.

 

[Blah11]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

How can they pluck an accurate risk factor out of nowhere? That makes no sense. If 5 children dont get vaccinated that year 1 could catch it, pass it onto some children who havent yet had the chance to be vaccinated who in turn passes it onto 2 more children and those 2 children pass it on etc etc etc BAM EPIDEMIC. Its very difficult to give a precise risk factor when its based on very little info... Like the swine flu estimations.

 

[blutea]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

The risk of getting a disease varies too greatly as people travel, are exposed, are vaccinated, skip a vaccination, miss booster shots etc
Its impossible to predict and is a constantly changing number. To say otherwise is to misrepresent the truth.

Thats why it would do no good. If you spray ant poison every day... and then determine that the risk of getting ants is so small that you shouldn't risk the poison.... and you stop spraying... the risk of getting ants will increase.

Again, I fail to see how your analogy is relevant. Ants do not cause adverse reactions, injury or death (besides fire ants).

 

[lisaf]

I have not heard that those who are catching whooping cough in my area were already vaccinated. Haven't heard a PEEP to that effect... where do you get your data from? I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[blutea]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

How can they pluck an accurate risk factor out of nowhere? That makes no sense. If 5 children dont get vaccinated that year 1 could catch it, pass it onto some children who havent yet had the chance to be vaccinated who in turn passes it onto 2 more children and those 2 children pass it on etc etc etc BAM EPIDEMIC. Its very difficult to give a precise risk factor when its based on very little info... Like the swine flu estimations.

You need to go back and read this thread. Your argument has already been discussed and countered. You can't lump all vaccines and all disease in one category. Some have more risk than others.

 

[blutea]

I have not heard that those who are catching whooping cough in my area were already vaccinated. Haven't heard a PEEP to that effect... where do you get your data from? I'd be interested in seeing it.

It is rarely stated when a vaccinated individual contracts the same illness they are vaccinated for. It is usually just blamed on the unvaccinated individuals.

 

[Blah11]

I dont have time or the will to scroll through 50 pages LOL


The whooping cough thing.. its a natural cycle I thought? By the time the baby who was vaccinated turns 15 the vaccine has probably worn off. Adults and adolescents catch the disease and pass it onto unvacinated babys?

Maybe I'm wrong, I dont know too much about whooping cough.

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

id also like to see where you're data is from.

 

[lisaf]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

The risk of getting a disease varies too greatly as people travel, are exposed, are vaccinated, skip a vaccination, miss booster shots etc
Its impossible to predict and is a constantly changing number. To say otherwise is to misrepresent the truth.

Thats why it would do no good. If you spray ant poison every day... and then determine that the risk of getting ants is so small that you shouldn't risk the poison.... and you stop spraying... the risk of getting ants will increase.

Again, I fail to see how your analogy is relevant. Ants do not cause adverse reactions, injury or death (besides fire ants).

Its an analogy.
Its supposed to illustrate how preventing something (X) and making it rare, can make it seem like the X is a rare thing... but that doesn't mean that by skipping the prevention, X will remain rare.
My example did not have to include something that was identical in consequence... in my example however, ants=disease and ant spray=vaccine.... ants=undesirable, ant spray=tool used to prevent the undesireable form occuring.

I should add for the record, we all use products like Frontline and Advantage on our pets up here to prevent fleas (vaccine=frontline.. flea=disease). For the most part, if you use frontline consistantly, you will never have a flea issue... this year, none of those products were working... we went to our vet desperate for something else to try and he said they'd been flooded with people with the same issue... so organisms do become resistant to the treatments that are available... did the frontline help? Yes... but when the fleas got smarter, we just tried a different/stronger/prescription brand and it got rid of the problem.

 

[Blah11]

Do you really think it's a good idea to not vaccinate at all blutea? Do you think alcohol gel and washing our hands would keep them away or do you have another suggestion?

 

[lisaf]

You want them to make up a risk factor? I fail to see how that would do any good but hey ho.

OMG! That was so rude. You're the pot calling the kettle black.

Did I say make up risk factors? I called for accurate information.

How can they pluck an accurate risk factor out of nowhere? That makes no sense. If 5 children dont get vaccinated that year 1 could catch it, pass it onto some children who havent yet had the chance to be vaccinated who in turn passes it onto 2 more children and those 2 children pass it on etc etc etc BAM EPIDEMIC. Its very difficult to give a precise risk factor when its based on very little info... Like the swine flu estimations.

You need to go back and read this thread. Your argument has already been discussed and countered. You can't lump all vaccines and all disease in one category. Some have more risk than others.

I have to say you're misunderstanding the comment... the comment was about what makes risk factor of CATCHING a disease incredibly hard to predict.... that is true no matter what disease you are talking about as there are many variables that can cause an outbreak.

 

[lisaf]

Do you really think it's a good idea to not vaccinate at all blutea? Do you think alcohol gel and washing our hands would keep them away or do you have another suggestion?

Hey, I agree with most of your viewpoints but that comment was a little hostile. Blutea's decision not vaccinate was based on actually having one of those rare, but valid, reactions to a vaccine. Something, as a pro-vaccinator, I understand.

I do agree that her arguments seem to imply that her experience means vaccines are possibly harmful to everyone. Though she has never said that, comments about how diseases are mutating and vaccines are ineffective strongly suggest that to me.

 

[Blah11]

The weather could be more favourable for an outbreak one year than the next which is another reason why its not realistic to expect 'them' to give a semi accurate risk factor. It really would be a total guess lol

 

[blutea]

I have not heard that those who are catching whooping cough in my area were already vaccinated. Haven't heard a PEEP to that effect... where do you get your data from? I'd be interested in seeing it.

I have no idea where you live but from what I can remember the issue first came up in February of this year. A significant change in the two most common strains of whooping cough were detected, and researchers have named a change in the type of vaccination as a cause for the bacteria mutation.

You can google it.

 

[Blah11]

Do you really think it's a good idea to not vaccinate at all blutea? Do you think alcohol gel and washing our hands would keep them away or do you have another suggestion?

Hey, I agree with most of your viewpoints but that comment was a little hostile. Blutea's decision not vaccinate was based on actually having one of those rare, but valid, reactions to a vaccine. Something, as a pro-vaccinator, I understand.

I do agree that her arguments seem to imply that her experience means vaccines are possibly harmful to everyone. Though she has never said that, comments about how diseases are mutating and vaccines are ineffective strongly suggest that to me.

It's a genuine question hence the question marks Like i said I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know about her past.