Would you trust the h1n1 shot after this...

Hello! Sorry not to have been on, I've been super busy with work and super ill with the whole being pregnant thing and this thread always makes me feel cross and drained!

I see it's still going in circles though. Thanks for the kind words after my last post. Blutea what did you want me to clarify? That I was/wasn't being rude? I've no apology to make about my post other than posting on a phone makes review a bit difficult. Blutea as you challenged me specifically I don't see why you find it condescending when you've said you don't have a good understanding of the scientific process. The reality is that most people don't, hence my whole field of career existing. What surprises me then is with how much authority you've stated a variety of things and how dismissive and selective you are about the scientific evidence that's been put before you.

I'm going to say it one last time - I fully support you in your decision not to vaccinate given the experiences you have had. There is no attack coming from me with regards your decision. My argument is with the logic and resources you have been sharing with us and how they are being applied to the population at large which I believe to be incorrect and to go against the published scientific data on this subject. For someone saying you have no wish to tell people what to do you seem to be trying very hard to make people think all vaccination is a bad thing. I didn't say anything about what you can and can't post, besides flaming anything goes really. All I asked was that you stop abusing the science you imperfectly understand. It doesn't help your side of the debate and just provokes people to point out the flaws in the argument.

Anyway I'm really not wanting to engage in personal stuff on here. My statement about science was generally made and applies to anyone saying unfounded things or purposely misrepresenting the published research. It wasn't a personal attack. I appreciate you liked part of the post Blutea. Lol. :flower:

I think this was beautifully said! :thumbup:
 
A Bullet to the Head
by Dr Sherri Tenpenny

https://drtenpenny.com/A_Bullet_to_the_Head.aspx

It seems people often need to experience a bullet to the head before they will believe bullets can be deadly...and then they rue the day they ignored warnings about playing with loaded guns.

Vaccination seems to hold a similar place. People ignore words of caution and roll up their sleeves to get a flu shot. It seems they think getting a vaccine is the same as taking a multivitamin, and equally as benign. But when serious adverse events occur, such as Guillain-Barre paralysis, a seizure disorder or even a death, a jolt of reality lays bare just how damaging a “simple vaccine” can be.

The stranglehold of fear, perpetrated by those in white coats and by the medical bureaucrats in Washington DC who take their marching orders from pharma, is working hard to choke rationally thinking adults into submission. I get emails almost every day that say something like, "I bought your DVDs and your books...but I have a question: Should I get a flu shot?" WHAT?@!>! My mouth drops. I have to clear my head and find a way to say, "No, you should not get the flu shot", being cautious to keep my tone void of sarcasm. That may seem harsh, but in very turbulent times. Soft language and hand holding until people “get it” is becoming increasingly more difficult.

Being in the business of waking people up to the hazards of vaccines certainly has its ups and downs. A recent “up” was the public policy debate held on November 10 at the University of Texas in Austin. Sponsored by the Libertarian Longhorns, the Texas College Republicans and a few other Texas health freedom groups, the discussion called, "Are Vaccine Mandates Good or Bad for Public Health?" was open to the general public. Interest in this timely topic was reflected by the standing-room only attendance of the meeting.

Speaking in support of vaccination and school mandates was Tom Betz, MD, MPH, Director of Region 7 for the Texas Department of Health Services. Several of his health department colleagues joined him in the audience but chose not to join him on the stage. I had the pleasure of being teamed with Dawn Richardson, President and Co-founder of PROVE (Parents Requesting Open Vaccine Education) in Austin, Texas and the Directory of State Advocacy for the National Vaccine Information Center in Vienna, Virginia. Our presentation was mostly about opposition to vaccine mandates but we were able to address our opposition to vaccines in general. Based on the hundreds of comments we received, the debate (found all on YouTube) was well received and enlightening for all.

All three participants were given the questions to review prior to the debate. There is so much to say about vaccines that preparation was important to cover key points, almost as sound bites; only three short minutes were allowed for each answer. Our very professional moderator, Dr. Donna Campbell, allowed equal time for each side.

During the personal introductions, Dr. Campbell informed the audience that the plan was to have two persons on each panel; but that Dr. Betz was the only person from the Health Department who would agree to participate. Prior to settling in on the stage, I had learned the reason why.

Shaking Dr. Betz’ hand, I thanked him for joining the discussion. He returned the niceties with a slight shrug, confessing that, “No one else wanted to do it.” Surprised, I queried, “Why not? This is a great way to tell everyone your message about vaccines.” My unspoken question was, “Why didn’t the Health Department want to jump on the opportunity to bury anti-vaccination ‘pseudo-science’, as you call it, once and for all, in front of everyone?” He quietly replied, “We’ve done these types of programs before; they never go well.”

It seems pro-vaccine arguments are being soundly defeated, time after time. And the real vaccine “pseudo-science” is being exposed for the rhetoric it is: factoids crafted by public health officials from the WHO and the CDC, and then regurgitated by under-informed medical professionals to a naïve public. Funny how medical bureaucrats and doctors are considered the "experts" when it is strangely obvious they don't understand – and probably don’t even read – their own medical literature.

The Austin debate was the next important step in exposing that the “science of vaccination” isn’t so scientific after all. Vaccination has been accepted as safe, effective and protective. The shots can be described as a medical sacred cow, defined as “a medical procedure that is unreasonably immune to criticism.” Doctors and patients who question vaccines are ridiculed and marginalized. It is heresy to suggest that the status quo is wrong.
Vaccine adverse events are considered “rare”, so when reactions occur, steps are taken to negate the association to the vaccine. Patients are discredited, parents are dismissed. Doctors subject very ill persons to thousands of dollars of inconclusive medical tests, rather than to simply acknowledge – and rightfully assign causality – to the vaccine. When a person reacts to penicillin or Paxil or any other drug, isn’t it just blamed on the drug? Not so with vaccines.

Going to Austin was an upbeat offset to other particularly disturbing news reported over the last few weeks about the

H1N1, swine flu vaccine:

• Several schools have vaccinated children without parental consent.
• The growing list of reported miscarriages.
• A teen athlete who is now crippled.
• Two students and a teacher in China who died hours after getting the shot.
• Children having hallucinations, and then committing suicide, after taking Tamiflu.
• The strange and virulent outbreak in the Ukraine, where the WHO has been deafeningly silent about its findings – but knows that whatever is the cause, vaccination is the answer.

We seem to regard germs the same way we think about terrorism: Random attacks that can be deadly. All parties who promote vaccination hawk this view, particularly those pushing both types of flu shots. Tens of millions have been spent in the US on national advertising campaigns, and even Sesame Street merchandising, to convince us that flu shots are necessary to keep us well – and keep us alive. But perhaps we have it backwards. Bugs can cause random, mostly benign attacks, particularly among the healthy. But random, “deadly” attacks, with health consequences that can show up years later? I’d worry more about the vaccines.

After 200 years, with our many advances in science and medicine, you would think that someone could develop a method to protect babies and adults from infectious disease other than injecting them with animal cells, stray viruses, heavy metals and toxic chemicals. Why do we call this health and protection? Until my dying breath I will never understand why people resolutely defend – and demand – the right to inject themselves and their children with these risky potients.

For those who meet resistance when trying to warn family and friends of vaccine risks, the only thing to do, really, is to keep spreading the word. Don’t be discouraged. You never know who is listening and you never know when the seeds will sprout. Focus on those who are waking up and gratefully support them. The rest, well sadly, they may have to find out the hard way what it feels like to get hit by that stray bullet.
 
A Bullet to the Head
by Dr Sherri Tenpenny

https://drtenpenny.com/A_Bullet_to_the_Head.aspx

It seems people often need to experience a bullet to the head before they will believe bullets can be deadly...and then they rue the day they ignored warnings about playing with loaded guns.

Vaccination seems to hold a similar place. People ignore words of caution and roll up their sleeves to get a flu shot. It seems they think getting a vaccine is the same as taking a multivitamin, and equally as benign. But when serious adverse events occur, such as Guillain-Barre paralysis, a seizure disorder or even a death, a jolt of reality lays bare just how damaging a “simple vaccine” can be.

The stranglehold of fear, perpetrated by those in white coats and by the medical bureaucrats in Washington DC who take their marching orders from pharma, is working hard to choke rationally thinking adults into submission. I get emails almost every day that say something like, "I bought your DVDs and your books...but I have a question: Should I get a flu shot?" WHAT?@!>! My mouth drops. I have to clear my head and find a way to say, "No, you should not get the flu shot", being cautious to keep my tone void of sarcasm. That may seem harsh, but in very turbulent times. Soft language and hand holding until people “get it” is becoming increasingly more difficult.

Being in the business of waking people up to the hazards of vaccines certainly has its ups and downs. A recent “up” was the public policy debate held on November 10 at the University of Texas in Austin. Sponsored by the Libertarian Longhorns, the Texas College Republicans and a few other Texas health freedom groups, the discussion called, "Are Vaccine Mandates Good or Bad for Public Health?" was open to the general public. Interest in this timely topic was reflected by the standing-room only attendance of the meeting.

Speaking in support of vaccination and school mandates was Tom Betz, MD, MPH, Director of Region 7 for the Texas Department of Health Services. Several of his health department colleagues joined him in the audience but chose not to join him on the stage. I had the pleasure of being teamed with Dawn Richardson, President and Co-founder of PROVE (Parents Requesting Open Vaccine Education) in Austin, Texas and the Directory of State Advocacy for the National Vaccine Information Center in Vienna, Virginia. Our presentation was mostly about opposition to vaccine mandates but we were able to address our opposition to vaccines in general. Based on the hundreds of comments we received, the debate (found all on YouTube) was well received and enlightening for all.

All three participants were given the questions to review prior to the debate. There is so much to say about vaccines that preparation was important to cover key points, almost as sound bites; only three short minutes were allowed for each answer. Our very professional moderator, Dr. Donna Campbell, allowed equal time for each side.

During the personal introductions, Dr. Campbell informed the audience that the plan was to have two persons on each panel; but that Dr. Betz was the only person from the Health Department who would agree to participate. Prior to settling in on the stage, I had learned the reason why.

Shaking Dr. Betz’ hand, I thanked him for joining the discussion. He returned the niceties with a slight shrug, confessing that, “No one else wanted to do it.” Surprised, I queried, “Why not? This is a great way to tell everyone your message about vaccines.” My unspoken question was, “Why didn’t the Health Department want to jump on the opportunity to bury anti-vaccination ‘pseudo-science’, as you call it, once and for all, in front of everyone?” He quietly replied, “We’ve done these types of programs before; they never go well.”

It seems pro-vaccine arguments are being soundly defeated, time after time. And the real vaccine “pseudo-science” is being exposed for the rhetoric it is: factoids crafted by public health officials from the WHO and the CDC, and then regurgitated by under-informed medical professionals to a naïve public. Funny how medical bureaucrats and doctors are considered the "experts" when it is strangely obvious they don't understand – and probably don’t even read – their own medical literature.

The Austin debate was the next important step in exposing that the “science of vaccination” isn’t so scientific after all. Vaccination has been accepted as safe, effective and protective. The shots can be described as a medical sacred cow, defined as “a medical procedure that is unreasonably immune to criticism.” Doctors and patients who question vaccines are ridiculed and marginalized. It is heresy to suggest that the status quo is wrong.
Vaccine adverse events are considered “rare”, so when reactions occur, steps are taken to negate the association to the vaccine. Patients are discredited, parents are dismissed. Doctors subject very ill persons to thousands of dollars of inconclusive medical tests, rather than to simply acknowledge – and rightfully assign causality – to the vaccine. When a person reacts to penicillin or Paxil or any other drug, isn’t it just blamed on the drug? Not so with vaccines.

Going to Austin was an upbeat offset to other particularly disturbing news reported over the last few weeks about the

H1N1, swine flu vaccine:

• Several schools have vaccinated children without parental consent.
• The growing list of reported miscarriages.
• A teen athlete who is now crippled.
• Two students and a teacher in China who died hours after getting the shot.
• Children having hallucinations, and then committing suicide, after taking Tamiflu.
• The strange and virulent outbreak in the Ukraine, where the WHO has been deafeningly silent about its findings – but knows that whatever is the cause, vaccination is the answer.

We seem to regard germs the same way we think about terrorism: Random attacks that can be deadly. All parties who promote vaccination hawk this view, particularly those pushing both types of flu shots. Tens of millions have been spent in the US on national advertising campaigns, and even Sesame Street merchandising, to convince us that flu shots are necessary to keep us well – and keep us alive. But perhaps we have it backwards. Bugs can cause random, mostly benign attacks, particularly among the healthy. But random, “deadly” attacks, with health consequences that can show up years later? I’d worry more about the vaccines.

After 200 years, with our many advances in science and medicine, you would think that someone could develop a method to protect babies and adults from infectious disease other than injecting them with animal cells, stray viruses, heavy metals and toxic chemicals. Why do we call this health and protection? Until my dying breath I will never understand why people resolutely defend – and demand – the right to inject themselves and their children with these risky potients.

For those who meet resistance when trying to warn family and friends of vaccine risks, the only thing to do, really, is to keep spreading the word. Don’t be discouraged. You never know who is listening and you never know when the seeds will sprout. Focus on those who are waking up and gratefully support them. The rest, well sadly, they may have to find out the hard way what it feels like to get hit by that stray bullet.

this woman is incredibly patronizing. i do not need waking up thank you.

why do ppl assume those who chose the vaccination route havent done any research and arent aware of the risks? its quite insulting.

ETA: and yes Dr Tenpenny i know bullets are deadly and no ive never had a bullet to the head.
 
https://www.ageofautism.com/2010/09...tm_campaign=Feed:+ageofautism+(AGE+OF+AUTISM)

"In brief, these two recent publications now give us clear and disturbing evidence from the first primate model ever designed to address the question, how does ethyl mercury exposure alongside vaccination affect the infant brain? Along three distinct dimensions, the research shows both the presence and the pattern of a clear developmental injury. Are the findings from this pilot study conclusive? Of course not. But they provide support for the concerns of many parents in the autism parent community. They also underscore the idea, so elegantly stated by warrior autism mom Shelly Hendrix a few years ago that “giving mercury to children on purpose is stupid.”
 
'non-vaxers' says it all..

Not quite sure what you mean but it wasn't very nice to say. I'm explaining that I don't expect you to take me word for it and I encourage you to look into it further yourself.
 
I have yet to see anyone provide a link to a credible, published scientific paper in support of not vaccinating :shrug:
 
The only point from that Dr. Tenpenny article is that once you have experienced one of the rare reactions to a vaccine, you are a bit gunshy about vaccinations, and rightly so. But that was a very obnoxious article, please post links or clips from the article, not the whole thing.

Because one person has a gun misfire on them, does not mean that all gunowners are going to have the same malfunction/accident. Learning how to properly handle and store a gun is important to the safety of it... just as educating yourself about the risks of diseases and vaccines is an important part to being a responsible parent in making that decision.

Many more children used to die of diseases than those who are injured today from vaccines. Just because 5 kids out of 100,000 may have an adverse reaction does not mean that the other 99,995 children should not get the vaccine. Again... the death rate from these diseases is much higher. Does that feel like any consolation to those 5 children and parents? No... does it mean its ok that those 5 children were injured? Of course not! But the risks are NOT a high or as common as the antivaxx organizations constantly imply. There is never a risk-free choice when it comes to anything (even to not-vaccinating!)

I'd be interested in reading the actual study that the article about the primates... I'm pretty wary that the article doesn't link you to the study... that last journalism clip you sent, the actual study said something quite different and more complicated than what the article concluded.
 
this man is incredibly patronizing. i do not need waking up thank you.

why do ppl assume those who chose the vaccination route havent done any research and arent aware of the risks? its quite insulting.

ETA: and yes Dr Tenpenny i know bullets are deadly and no ive never had a bullet to the head.

Dr Tenpenny is a female. She's very well educated in the way of vaccines. I encourage you to take a look at some of her books and videos and other articles because they are very informative. https://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx
 
this man is incredibly patronizing. i do not need waking up thank you.

why do ppl assume those who chose the vaccination route havent done any research and arent aware of the risks? its quite insulting.

ETA: and yes Dr Tenpenny i know bullets are deadly and no ive never had a bullet to the head.

Dr Tenpenny is a female. She's very well educated in the way of vaccines. I encourage you to take a look at some of her books and videos and other articles because they are very informative. https://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx

I actually knew she was a woman but my sleepy wee head kept telling me man there for a bit :haha: Will edit my post.

I have visited her website a few times. I just find her tone very patronizing. As ive said show me a paper that has been published in support of this and I will read it. I would be very interested if you could find one tbh as I couldnt and I mean that genuinely.
 
I dug through her website quite extensively. I'm a little confused why she's not an MD if she's studied and practiced medicine, but thats just a side note.

I think she is preying on the vaccine scare to be honest. I can't think of one doctor I would trust who seems more focused on DVD, book sales and lecture circuits than on practicing medicine or actually conducting research. Thats a personal call though.
The reason why I think she's preying on the vaccine scare is that she mentions 7,000 hours of research on medical journals about vaccines, but I can't find a link to any studies that show how she came across her conclusions...
I actually quite agree with her point of view about FULLY educating parents on the risks and letting the parents make a fully informed choice when comparing the vaccine risks to the risks of the disease.

But she provides no basis for her other opinions about vaccines being bad in general. Yes, she has experience working with vaccine-injured families, but no scientific data supporting her viewpoints about vaccines in general.
 
I dug through her website quite extensively. I'm a little confused why she's not an MD if she's studied and practiced medicine, but thats just a side note.

I think she is preying on the vaccine scare to be honest. I can't think of one doctor I would trust who seems more focused on DVD, book sales and lecture circuits than on practicing medicine or actually conducting research. Thats a personal call though.
The reason why I think she's preying on the vaccine scare is that she mentions 7,000 hours of research on medical journals about vaccines, but I can't find a link to any studies that show how she came across her conclusions...
I actually quite agree with her point of view about FULLY educating parents on the risks and letting the parents make a fully informed choice when comparing the vaccine risks to the risks of the disease.

But she provides no basis for her other opinions about vaccines being bad in general. Yes, she has experience working with vaccine-injured families, but no scientific data supporting her viewpoints about vaccines in general.

I totally agree. :thumbup:
 
oh, and her informative links? Not a single scientific study there. A link about the aborted fetus cells in vaccines (no correction that the cells are not IN the vaccines) goes to a site called "Children of God for Life"
The link to an article about aluminum in vaccines? Puts a picture of a screaming child pulling away from a needle as the background in one of the first few slides....

That to me, is just more of the stuff I HATE about the anti-vaxx lobby.... I get mad because it DOES affect my emotions to see a child screaming and pulling away from a needle... does that image have any impact on the reality of whether the vaccine is good for that child? NOPE
 
From what I understand Dr Tenpenny gathers her research directly from the CDC, vaccine studies and medical journals. You could contact her directly for references and I'm sure she would be happy to share them with you.
 
From what I understand Dr Tenpenny gathers her research directly from the CDC, vaccine studies and medical journals. You could contact her directly for references and I'm sure she would be happy to share them with you.

Yes, this is correct. Her contact information should be on her website.
 
I am on the look out for that primate study... If I find it I'll let you know...

Also, IF (and my if is emphasized as I'm still on the fence) immunizations are responsible for autism the risks to children would be far greater than 5/100,000 as the incidence of autism spectrum disorders is about 1/160.......
 
Hello! Sorry not to have been on, I've been super busy with work and super ill with the whole being pregnant thing and this thread always makes me feel cross and drained!

I see it's still going in circles though. Thanks for the kind words after my last post. Blutea what did you want me to clarify? That I was/wasn't being rude? I've no apology to make about my post other than posting on a phone makes review a bit difficult. Blutea as you challenged me specifically I don't see why you find it condescending when you've said you don't have a good understanding of the scientific process. The reality is that most people don't, hence my whole field of career existing. What surprises me then is with how much authority you've stated a variety of things and how dismissive and selective you are about the scientific evidence that's been put before you.

I'm going to say it one last time - I fully support you in your decision not to vaccinate given the experiences you have had. There is no attack coming from me with regards your decision. My argument is with the logic and resources you have been sharing with us and how they are being applied to the population at large which I believe to be incorrect and to go against the published scientific data on this subject. For someone saying you have no wish to tell people what to do you seem to be trying very hard to make people think all vaccination is a bad thing. I didn't say anything about what you can and can't post, besides flaming anything goes really. All I asked was that you stop abusing the science you imperfectly understand. It doesn't help your side of the debate and just provokes people to point out the flaws in the argument.

Anyway I'm really not wanting to engage in personal stuff on here. My statement about science was generally made and applies to anyone saying unfounded things or purposely misrepresenting the published research. It wasn't a personal attack. I appreciate you liked part of the post Blutea. Lol. :flower:

I think this was beautifully said! :thumbup:

I disagree. This was yet another patronizing response.
 
I am on the look out for that primate study... If I find it I'll let you know...

Also, IF (and my if is emphasized as I'm still on the fence) immunizations are responsible for autism the risks to children would be far greater than 5/100,000 as the incidence of autism spectrum disorders is about 1/160.......

That's a very good point.
 
From what I understand Dr Tenpenny gathers her research directly from the CDC, vaccine studies and medical journals. You could contact her directly for references and I'm sure she would be happy to share them with you.

Then why doesn't she share them on her website? :shrug:
 
I have yet to see anyone provide a link to a credible, published scientific paper in support of not vaccinating :shrug:

I haven't found any concrete evidence that suggests that vaccines would be a benefit to my family. So I think the more important concern is can you provide a link to a truely credible, published scientific paper in support of vaccinating. :shrug: One that is not funded by the vaccine industry or large pharmacutical companies or the CDC because the stuff they produce is manipulated to support vaccines.
 
From what I understand Dr Tenpenny gathers her research directly from the CDC, vaccine studies and medical journals. You could contact her directly for references and I'm sure she would be happy to share them with you.

Then why doesn't she share them on her website? :shrug:

Here- https://drtenpenny.com/more.aspx Maybe you just weren't looking in the right place before.

And I'm sure she would welcome your personal questions for more information.
 

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