WTT Poll: Morality Vs Mother Nature

[hilljm313]

My fiance and I are getting married in one month and he wants to WTT for another year. I want to try RIGHT NOW haha since we've been having this discussion already for 2 YEARS.

I've noticed that I have next to NO EWCM and am pretty sure that I have a few anovulatory cycles each year. So....I've decided to use this "waiting period" to improve and get to know my fertility status. We use the withdrawal method (with no accidents for at least 2 years), for the record...and I do not have any children so far.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Is trying preseed to improve my EWCM going too far?
2. Is intentionally scheduling BD around ovulation not fair?
3. Is taking the "on top" position during BD not fair?
4. Where do you draw the line?



Please do not use this post to sit in righteous judgment of my questions or dilemma. I am not using a turkey baster to inseminate myself, just wondering where to draw the line between improving the odds and respecting his trepidation.

 

[hilljm313]

Bump!

 

[Jennykins]

Definitely take this time to decipher your fertility with FAM and have your SO take part in the learning. Keep bding spontaneously - don't schedule it that's no fun

Preseed isn't necessary until you are actively ttc, imo. Your odds of having an "oopsie" with the withdrawal method are very low, even with the points you mentioned above.

Intentionally trying to swing the odds in your favour is ..well..dishonest, and not the best foot to start off your marriage and lives together.

I know what you're feeling - I've been in your boat. I still am! But getting closer to our agreed upon date to finally start trying.

Have you tried reminding him that you still wait 9 long months before you actually have another physical being in the picture? And that it doesn't always "catch" on the first try?

 

[hilljm313]

Thank you for your response. I don't FEEL dishonest because I've been really upfront with him about what I'm working on/considering... AND about my crossed fingers for an oopsie lol. I think he is just very confident about the POM bc it's worked so well for so long so hes pretty unconcerned about what I do supplement wise. I typically do not take the top position when I'm fertile out of respect for him bc I know it makes the technique more difficult but I didn't know if it would be selfish on my part to do so now bc of my own timeline hopes. What's good for his work timeline is not the same for mine school wise.

I've tried to explain that conceiving would likely take some time but he thinks it will be instant lol bc the last time he had a child he was in his early twenties. He's not much into the science of it all.

Congratulations on getting close to your ttc date!

 

[MellyH]

I definitely think it is unfair to purposefully schedule sex when you know you're ovulating and to take the 'decision-making' position. Getting to know your cycles is a great idea though and will help things go faster when he is ready. If he's not ready, he might resent you, especially if you've taken the decision out of his hands. I don't know anything about preseed, sorry!

 

[hilljm313]

Thanks for the input! Always need help in the morally gray areas. Is it more fair if I am not charting and am unaware of my fertility ? Or is it my responsibility to prevent sex when I'm fertile? More gray area to me...

 

[hilljm313]

My dilemma with preseed is one of ethics too. I do not have EWCM nearly ever. I am a desert lol. I could take Evening Primrose Oil to produce my own and ease PMS symptoms, or I could buy Preseed lube. One is notorious as a ttc aid and the other just improves your fertility overall--by doing the same thing. So I'm trying to figure out in part where improving my fertility becomes ttc. If that makes sense?

 

[MellyH]

Thanks for the input! Always need help in the morally gray areas. Is it more fair if I am not charting and am unaware of my fertility ? Or is it my responsibility to prevent sex when I'm fertile? More gray area to me...

That's tough for me to answer for myself, because I've never tried the withdrawal method, so I can't really work out in my head how the 'responsibility' is divided. I would think his job is obviously to pull out, and yours is to make sure he can do so in a timely manner. If you're not paying attention to when you're fertile, then you are both implicitly acknowledging that any time could be a fertile time. I know when we had our pre-marital counselling, they strongly recommended tracking fertility and avoiding the most fertile days as part of this method, for it to be as successful as possible.

So, if I was going to start tracking, I would make sure my husband knew about it, and was kept up to date with where I was in my cycle. He can decide as well whether he wants to take the risk at the more fertile times! You both are part of the decision.

 

[MellyH]

And I am taking pre-natal vitamins and not TTC yet (next year, sigh), so you can definitely work on understanding your body and improving your health and fertility without it being TTC. That's very different from trying to get pregnant before your OH is ready!

 

[hilljm313]

Thanks for the input! Always need help in the morally gray areas. Is it more fair if I am not charting and am unaware of my fertility ? Or is it my responsibility to prevent sex when I'm fertile? More gray area to me...

That's tough for me to answer for myself, because I've never tried the withdrawal method, so I can't really work out in my head how the 'responsibility' is divided. I would think his job is obviously to pull out, and yours is to make sure he can do so in a timely manner. If you're not paying attention to when you're fertile, then you are both implicitly acknowledging that any time could be a fertile time. I know when we had our pre-marital counselling, they strongly recommended tracking fertility and avoiding the most fertile days as part of this method, for it to be as successful as possible.

So, if I was going to start tracking, I would make sure my husband knew about it, and was kept up to date with where I was in my cycle. He can decide as well whether he wants to take the risk at the more fertile times! You both are part of the decision.

This makes sense to me. One concept I've really been mulling over lately is how (if we as women cannot agree on a date with our partner) we invariably defer to our partner's decision and have to often put in more work to make sure it ONLY happens on their timeline via tracking, birth control etc...lest they resent us for not preventing it or for improving our fertility.

In some ways I feel like the the responsibility ought to rest (primarily) with the person who wishes to prevent. This is purely an ethics discussion at this point BTW lol.. But it doesn't seem correct to make the person who is fine with accidental pregnancy jump through hoops to prevent it when their partner is confident with POM odds.

My hubs and I have had long, drawn out conversations about resentment so I don't think that is a risk here but I have FELT more responsibility the more I have learned about fertility and it's made me question what is fair and responsible.

 

[MellyH]

The person who doesn't want to get pregnant certainly has motivation to be more vigilant than the other person!

I am trying to imagine a reverse scenario, where my husband wanted something now and I wanted to wait, and my husband had relevant information that he didn't share with me, partly in the hopes that the 'something' would happen sooner than later. The notion of me being held more responsible because I am the one who wants to wait is an interesting one in that case. How would I ensure I had all the information? It's hard to say.

I am in charge of the birth control here, and I would feel very guilty if we got pregnant before the planned time, even though I am dying to TTC. But in my case the 'responsibility' is much more clear cut, and I'd feel like I let down my half of the 'deal'. You know what I mean?

 

[hilljm313]

The version in my head of this scenario is the husband wants to ttc now and the wife wants to wait, but she does not want to use contraceptives and expects her husband to modify his body and limit his fertility to meet her expectations. Lol. The wife would expect him to notify her whenever he had last ejaculated so she could be sure there would be no sperm in his urethra when they used the POM...or something to that effect. Reversing fertility roles is hard Haha.

I definitely understand how you feel given your situation. And certainly I feel that agreements between couples should be honored to the letter.

 

[babyzoe]

i don't know if this has been said already but if your SO doesn't want a child right now then he should be making decisions to carry that out. my DH didn't want a baby for the last 8 years and he always used a condom/pulled out/made sure I was on BC, you name it. It does take two to tango so this isn't all on you (especially in instances when you don't know you're cycle.) But you're a smart woman, you know what cycles are and how reproduction works, to claim naivety at this stage of the game, wouldn't cut it. There is no "gray area" here because you've already had the discussion with your SO and he told you he wanted to wait. To do anything other than that and claim it was a gray area or an accident is just being disrespectful to him. Having a baby is a life-changer....he should get some say as far as when and how his life is going to change.

 

[hilljm313]

i don't know if this has been said already but if your SO doesn't want a child right now then he should be making decisions to carry that out. my DH didn't want a baby for the last 8 years and he always used a condom/pulled out/made sure I was on BC, you name it. It does take two to tango so this isn't all on you (especially in instances when you don't know you're cycle.) But you're a smart woman, you know what cycles are and how reproduction works, to claim naivety at this stage of the game, wouldn't cut it. There is no "gray area" here because you've already had the discussion with your SO and he told you he wanted to wait. To do anything other than that and claim it was a gray area or an accident is just being disrespectful to him. Having a baby is a life-changer....he should get some say as far as when and how his life is going to change.

Agree with your attitude totally. In this case I was talking about not going out of the way to chart. I brought that up only because over the past two years we have used POM I have not ever charted and only occasionally played around with OPKs. Since he has told me that he wants to wait for a year it occurred to me that I could spend this time now getting to know my fertility via charting etc.

Note: he could care less if I chart and thinks I'm weird for doing it anyway.

So my question where that was concerned is basically: does my increased knowledge of what is happening in my cycle suddenly create increased responsibility to disclose? Or is my responsibility the same as it has been for the past 2 years we paid zero attention to the matter? And if it DOES create increased responsibility because I'm paying attention to my ovulation now--would people suddenly think I'm scheming if I revert to ignoring my fertility altogether (as we've done for many years) and letting nature take its course? What if I go back to ignoring my fertility again and decide I want to be on top during BD, taking the "decision making position"? Am I expected to never be on top and make the position "harder for him to PO" if we aren't charting--lest I appear to be TRYING?

It is not black and white in this sense. If it were my aim to deceive him, surely you realize I would not being going out of my way to ask a bunch of strangers online what would be unfair to him EVEN in situations that can be very uncertain. I'm asking to make sure that I honor BOTH of our wishes and neither with more respect than the other.

ALSO WORTH NOTING: DH has said many times over the years that he is fine with accidental pregnancy, he just does not want to TRY for another year because of his personal timeline. Felt like that needed clarification...

 

[Tigerlily01]

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[hilljm313]

Given your situation, I'd probably tell your OH when you suspect you are ovulating so HE can decide if he wants to take steps to be more careful. It's not fair to trick him into something, but it's also not fair for him to make it entirely your responsibility. I'd just explain to him that in getting to know your cycles you will probably have more information than him, and you don't want him to have resentment if you fall pregnant, so it needs to be a joint decision.

I would definitely not purposely schedule sex during suspected ovulation if your OH is not ready yet. An accidental pregnancy is different from being tricked into it, and would hate for your relationship to suffer for it. Just my opinion, though.

Edit: oops, I just reread that, and I didn't mean to imply you planned to trick your OH. Sorry if it came across that way! I just meant it would be unfortunate if he FELT that way.

I think this sounds best of both worlds. I think I will ask him if he would prefer that I tell him when I am ovulating and if he cares at all about BD positions. And no offense taken. Ethics conversations can be hairy.

 

[hilljm313]

So, I just asked him haha. He said he does not care if I chart or if I tell him when I'm ovulating. He doesn't care what kind of lubrication I use. Hes very fate based and I'm very detail oriented lol. His attitude is that if it is meant to happen, it will happen regardless of the odds. He said many women try for years doing everything right and other women get pregnant against all protective measures so he is fine with however things turn out.

I envy his relaxed attitude lol...

 

[wombat1]

So, I just asked him haha. He said he does not care if I chart or if I tell him when I'm ovulating. He doesn't care what kind of lubrication I use. Hes very fate based and I'm very detail oriented lol. His attitude is that if it is meant to happen, it will happen regardless of the odds. He said many women try for years doing everything right and other women get pregnant against all protective measures so he is fine with however things turn out.

I envy his relaxed attitude lol...

My boyfriend's 'plan' for us to have kids was for me to accidentally fall pregnant while I was on the pill so I had to convince him that was very bad plan if he actually wanted kids. He took the relaxed attitude too far!

 

[hilljm313]

So, I just asked him haha. He said he does not care if I chart or if I tell him when I'm ovulating. He doesn't care what kind of lubrication I use. Hes very fate based and I'm very detail oriented lol. His attitude is that if it is meant to happen, it will happen regardless of the odds. He said many women try for years doing everything right and other women get pregnant against all protective measures so he is fine with however things turn out.

I envy his relaxed attitude lol...

My boyfriend's 'plan' for us to have kids was for me to accidentally fall pregnant while I was on the pill so I had to convince him that was very bad plan if he actually wanted kids. He took the relaxed attitude too far!

Oh lord! I have a feeling fertility treatments for us would not be in the cards for us for similar reasons lol--as infertility may mean to him that it's just not meant to happen.

 

[Hollynesss]

It seems unfair for him to hold you to HIS timeline. Once you are married, it should be your collective timeline, as a couple. Both of your feelings matter, and both of your personal goals matter, and these things should cultivate into your goals as a couple. Having a baby is a huge game changer, and it requires 100% commitment from both of you. Rather than him making the decision based on his work goal, or you making the decision by "accidentally" having sex when you just happened to know you're ovulating and using preseed, it really needs to be a mutual compromise. Maybe he would agree to NTNP? It sounds less scary to men, but it has the same goal in mind, just a more relaxed approach.

If the area is morally gray, stay away. Dishonesty in a marriage is wrong, no matter how well intentioned, and a really bad way to start off such a happy time. (No judgement intended, just my opinion!)

Best of luck to you!!