a rant: grrr why the snobbery about birth?!

[lifeguard]

There is a very good documentary called The Business of Giving Birth that is all about this issue. The US has very much medicalized birth, doesn't give as much info or support about natural births & pushes women greatly to get in & out quickly. Apparently more than 1/2 the money hospitals make in the US is from childbirth!

 

[Kina]

The US have higher rates of C Sections because they cost more. Docs intervene a lot more and it's not normal to have midwives, you're normally under hospital care. Every intervention, procedure etc is all $$$s off health insurance etc, so they tend to push women in c sections as they make more from them. It's disgusting!!

 

[Margerle]

Why do you think the USA has such a high c section rate compared with the UK?. Is delivery more doctor centered rather than midwife led for majority of births as it is in the UK?

I think that's one reason. Prenatal care in US tends to be a process where once a month you pee in a cup, are escorted into an exam room, vitals are taken, an internal may or may not be performed, "Is everything ok? Do you have any questions?" ... "No?" .... "See you next month!" Start to finish taking less than 20 minutes total. If you do have questions, quick version of the answer and on you go. No personal care as I have seen discussed by women from other countries using midwives.

Normally this process would be fine. Especially for mamas who are experienced. I really don't want to spend hours in the dr talking about my personal life... I've got a kid at home or at the babysitter, and I've got crap to do! But first time mamas I think get overwhelmed and discouraged, and confused, and they feel a bit led around by the nose... UNLESS they are proactive, and do research and become informed about pregnancy.

Do ladies just make the choice to have a section or is it doctors worried about being sued so they go for a section quicker than the UK?

Two things are at work here. Yes, doctors must avoid liability. It's less liability for them to perform a section. It's also less time. Rather than being on call for a woman in labor for a day and a half, he's done in less than an hour. That's a very tempting offer when doc has a family at home too.

Secondly, the medical interventions to the labor process itself often initializes complications to the labor which make a section very tempting or necessary.

One is pitocin, and the other is epidural. These two interventions sometimes cause the mamas labor to stall and fizzle out. This is not good for a baby who's tired, or a mama who's tired! At this point, a doc mentions section and since it's a doc's advice, many women opt for it. Secondary pregnancies are then complications in themselves. A lot of docs won't even LOOK at a VBAC (back to liability). And so the sections continue.

Sections aren't a bad thing, I just have trouble with the fact that women here are very trusting of their caregivers, and they are given options for birth that they really do not have informed conset about.

I've heard many stories of 2nd and 3rd time mamas who want to try a vaginal birth, but can't because no doc will back them. It is as one poster mentioned, women here are being convinced that they are unable to birth naturally. That birth is not natural and that it is a 'medical condition' that needs 'medical intervention'. The ironic part of this is, I would wager that a good chunk of OB's who have been practicing for the last 15 years have seen few or NO natural births...

I watched a programme about a lady in usa having a baby, she stayed on the bed the whole time I was shouting get up ,get mobile. Only asking??

Exactly.

 

[Margerle]

There is a very good documentary called The Business of Giving Birth that is all about this issue. The US has very much medicalized birth, doesn't give as much info or support about natural births & pushes women greatly to get in & out quickly. Apparently more than 1/2 the money hospitals make in the US is from childbirth!

Yes, the evidence shows this is the case for many women in many hospitals.

 

[Margerle]

The US have higher rates of C Sections because they cost more.

They cost more to the insurance company, they are less liability for the doc, and doc can be home for supper!

But, for all fairness, this is not EVERY doc, or EVERY hospital. Just a lot. More than should be.

Docs intervene a lot more and it's not normal to have midwives, you're normally under hospital care.

Yes, in fact there is at least one state I know of where midwifery assisted home birth is ILLEGAL.

Every intervention, procedure etc is all $$$s off health insurance etc, so they tend to push women in c sections as they make more from them. It's disgusting!!

Very sad, yes.

 

[Samantha675]

Why do you think the USA has such a high c section rate compared with the UK?.

It is beautifully and simply explained by one doctor in the documentary that is already being mentioned, The business of being born, "they can't sue you if you section them, just section them all.'

Sadly US culture has become soooo litigious that doctors will do what is best for themselves over what is better for their patient.

Oh as as for the attitude towards natural childbirth, and the use of midwives here. Well my gynocologist sent me a certified letter, a letter that cost her more to send, and that I had to sign for to prove I had received it, that dumped me from her service because I had decided to use a midwife. As long as I am under a midwife's care I was not to make an appointment with her at all, I was to consider myself no longer her patient.

 

[nikky0907]

I don't know if we even have midwives in my town.I have an ob/gyn and I take my scans there and have check-ups.And a woman can choose how she wants to deliver her baby.

I like it,I mean I don't know how much it costs in The UK so I can't compare.
Those are simply cultural differences.

In the end of 9 months we are all mothers,regardless to how we give birth or even if we don't give birth(adoption).
Margerle,I think we both think the same but we expressed it differently...Thank you...

 

[Margerle]

I don't know if we even have midwives in my town.I have an ob/gyn and I take my scans there and have check-ups.And a woman can choose how she wants to deliver her baby.

I like it,I mean I don't know how much it costs in The UK so I can't compare.
Those are simply cultural differences.

If I understand correctly, there is no cost to UK families. Their government provides their healthcare.

In the end of 9 months we are all mothers,regardless to how we give birth or even if we don't give birth(adoption).
Margerle,I think we both think the same but we expressed it differently...Thank you...

Well said.

 

[Margerle]

It is beautifully and simply explained by one doctor in the documentary that is already being mentioned, The business of being born, "they can't sue you if you section them, just section them all.'

This does not sound like a doc that assists his patient in understanding all the options available to her, and helping her make an informed choice about her birth options.

Sadly US culture has become soooo litigious that doctors will do what is best for themselves over what is better for their patient.

Very true. And why I think a lot of women may come off as being snobbish. US women sometimes have to work VERY HARD to get the kind of birth they want!

Oh as as for the attitude towards natural childbirth, and the use of midwives here. Well my gynocologist sent me a certified letter, a letter that cost her more to send, and that I had to sign for to prove I had received it, that dumped me from her service because I had decided to use a midwife. As long as I am under a midwife's care I was not to make an appointment with her at all, I was to consider myself no longer her patient.

Oh my.

 

[snugglemuffin]

Fact: If all women had their babies at home with no intervention some would not make it.

Fact: If all women gave birth in hospitals with drugs side effects and accidents will happen and some women would be scared out of ever giving birth again.

Fact: If all women gave birth in hospitals some would not make it anyway.

Fact: if all women gave birth at home some women would be scared out of ever giving birth again and accidents will happen.

If i didn't have intervention with my son and i wasn't in a hospital both of us would be dead. If when my OH was born without intervention he would be dead and obviously my daughter would not be here. I made my decision for drugs and a hospital birth after my own research led me to that conclusion based on my circumstances and wants for my birth experience. Obviously it turned out to be the right choice FOR ME.

If you are faced with a judgmental woman try this "I would like to point out that i am not justifying my decision because unless you have lived a day in the life of me and my vagina your judgement is not welcome or needed. If i needed to be educated i would ask"

Anyone who thinks they are better than others because they went drug free at home and PREACH that ALL births should be done that way are the ignorant and uninformed. They should be made to think of the thousands of babies and mothers who were saved by medical intervention and those who were just made happy and at ease at a scary time just because they are in a hospital.


However those who choose a home birth or a birth with no intervention and can be:

Objective and supportive

Without presuming anyone who has made a different choice is obviously ignorant of the facts and clearly uninformed

All who make their choice and don't PREACH to others about theirs

Those people who resist the urge to say "But woman have been doing it for years with no problems" when they have never been in labour themselves

Along with the women who choose to have there babies in hospital drugged up to the hilt and operated on because of whatever personal or medical reason and don't look at home birthing as the pursuit of "hippies", and snobs because of their choice and not their outlook....

YOU ARE ALL the superior ones in my eyes.

Can you tell i have met with snobbery?!!

anyhoo what's wrong with hippies?

 

[Serene123]

When I was in hospital last week, they were actually trying to get this woman to have pain relief and she wouldn't. I thought she was a complete idiot to be honest. She was crying in pain..

 

[Rachel]

When I was in labour with Nathan I kept asking for pain relief, pethidine, epidural, anything! but the midwife didn't bother checking how dilated I was and by time she did I was 8cm so I had gas and air after that point but had the midwife checked me earlier like I had asked then I would have had all the pain relief I could have. I was in pain and I wanted it to stop and there was things available to help with the pain and I wanted them but never got to because of that stupid cow

I never wanted a c-section because I watched a programme on them when pregnant and it put me off but had Nathans life been in danger then I would have definately had one and wouldn't feel like I'd failed because I didn't give birth the natural way. I am glad I got to have a natural birth but had I needed a c-section then I wouldn't have felt like i'd failed or anything.

This time I want to give birth naturally and with only gas and air but if I need a section then im not going to feel bad about it and I will prob be begging for an epidural

At the end of the day I just want my baby in my arms safely at the end of it all and if thats by section, natural birth, with or without drugs I don't care aslong as my baby arrives safely

 

[missjess]

It's such a personal choice... I admire the women who go through it naturally without pain meds but I could never go through that. Medicine is really good now a days, personally I don't think it's worth going through so much pain !

 

[Holldoll]

On the Business of Being Born, one of the OBs points out that in the US the C-section rates increase at 4:00 pm and 10:00 pm. That's not because women can't have babies at that time, it's that the doctors want to go home. That is the problem with uninformed women listening to the doctors! Just because they want dinner is not a reason to have a C-section. I think what people forget is a c-section is MAJOR surgery! I had open heart surgery and I had surgery on my ovaries, the pain and the recovery were NO DIFFERENT!!

 

[Liz]

i totally agree with u lol!! u dnt get any brownie points either way so wots the difference?! if women want it natural no dugs no nothing then all the best to ya but i believe its not how its dun its the END result! which ever way u do it u all get the same result at the end which is the true magic of childbirth.

 

[marley2580]

Strangely enough, I didn't want pain relief - it never even crossed my mind. Why? Because it wasn't that sore, it wasn't like conventional pain, I could handle it.

 

[Kina]

When I was in hospital last week, they were actually trying to get this woman to have pain relief and she wouldn't. I thought she was a complete idiot to be honest. She was crying in pain..

Maybe she didn't want her baby to be affected by the drugs?

What some people are forgetting is that it's not just the mother that are affected by the drugs that are giving during childbirth, the baby is too. This can cause problems afterwards with breastfeeding etc as often the baby is too sleepy to feed.
I only know how my labours felt, but they weren't that bad except near the end. I can't imagine wanting to go through having a needle put in my spine to numb my body and I've heard that pethidine doesn't really do a lot apart from make you feel sick and your baby drowsy.
I don't think I'm a superiour mother because I didn't have the drugs, but I can see it from a different angle.

 

[Layla]

I had epidurals on all mine apart from Adam, i aways got to 5cm and knew if the pain got worse i wouldnt be able to handle it so i had it done.

but on Adam i didnt have anytime to get one and i remember thinking, my god im going to have to do this with no pain relaife! but it truely wasnt that bad, the pain didnt get worse like i thought it would, it stayed the same and i suprised myself by giving birth with nothing.

For my next one i will be having a home birth coz now i know that i dont need drugs

x

 

[tinytoes]

Maybe she didn't want her baby to be affected by the drugs?

What some people are forgetting is that it's not just the mother that are affected by the drugs that are giving during childbirth, the baby is too.

is baby not also affected by the stress and screaming? I dunno, just a thought. I wouldnt fancy being squeezed through a small hole and listening to screams and feeling stress for 32 hours...but i dont know, I'm no doctor (god, wouldnt it be easier if we were?!)Just being picked out of the belly c-section style seems somehow more rleaxed?! A bit of a shock maybe though.

..not that I'm saying I'll be doing a Tom Cruise and opting for a silent birth if I do push this baby out!! Crikey no - If I do give birth no doubt I'll be swearing with the best of them (close your ears baby!)

 

[beanie]

is baby not also affected by the stress and screaming? I dunno, just a thought. I wouldnt fancy being squeezed through a small hole and listening to screams and feeling stress for 32 hours...but i dont know, I'm no doctor (god, wouldnt it be easier if we were?!)Just being picked out of the belly c-section style seems somehow more rleaxed?! A bit of a shock maybe though.

..not that I'm saying I'll be doing a Tom Cruise and opting for a silent birth if I do push this baby out!! Crikey no - If I do give birth no doubt I'll be swearing with the best of them (close your ears baby!)

nope, unless you believe in scientology. The baby does experience a degree of stress but that is in relation to the actual birth and contractions. They do pick up on emotions but a woman can feel more fear when drugged up then when not (I felt a lot calmer and in control with my second birth) As for a c-section the baby is all off a sudden born - personally I would get a bit more of a shock if someone opened up the roof of my house and picked me up then if I left through the front door.

I agree with Kina in relation to the woman screaming her head off. I was begging to go to the hospital all the way through Cally's birth, I was crying, the lot but my friends and OH who were there were very strong and kept telling me I didn't need them and didn't want them and they were right and I am glad they stuck to my original plans.

I also found that in the hospital they are very quick to dish out the pain relief instead of suggesting alternatives to it such as keeping mobile etc. At home I had no choice so found other ways to deal with it such as focusing on my breathing, essential oils, homeopathy, warm bath etc whereas as soon as I got to the hospital they offered me pethadine straight away.