Breast is not best, language, guilt and lactivism musings

[Ozzieshunni]

Ok, really? I'm going to be absolutely blunt here. As a BFer, I don't dare go into the FF section because I have nothing constructive to offer the ladies there. Why come into a section and berate the women in it? I don't do it to FF women. Why come in here and say that BFing women are self righteous and making you feel bad?

 

[patch2006uk]

Why do you assume those of us who bf didn't have issues or problems? My LO didn't latch for 8 days, he was cup fed and had formula supplements. Then his latch was so painful I cried at every feed. He fed hourly for 6 months, day and night. It was hell. I'm proud we got through it, and I'm not going to pretend it was effort for naught just so I don't hurt people's feelings.

 

[vintage67]

Ok, really? I'm going to be absolutely blunt here. As a BFer, I don't dare go into the FF section because I have nothing constructive to offer the ladies there. Why come into a section and berate the women in it? I don't do it to FF women. Why come in here and say that BFing women are self righteous and making you feel bad?

Who berated the women in this section?

I only see comments on the two very heated articles the OP linked to and the harm, not help that they do.

 

[Dragonfly]

Yes we all know there are risks involved...

All I can say is that ladies that can breastfeed with no major issues are very very lucky, and you will never truly understand how hurtful it is to read comments written by people who clearly 'work' fine. Everyone needs to be more objective looking at both sides. Its a very emotive subject I agree and people will always take offense. All I can say to those of you with no problems, imagine that you were unable to breast feed your children and then look at the articles again, you may see them in a different light.

You assume we had no issues? how do you know I have loads of issues actually. I wont go in to explaining myself as thats not relevant here. If I couldnt breastfeed I wouldnt go about bashing the facts and being offended at the risks being explained. Information should be available for mums why not talk about it maybe some other mums can get educated ? but instead mums who cant breastfeed stand in the way of that.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Ok, really? I'm going to be absolutely blunt here. As a BFer, I don't dare go into the FF section because I have nothing constructive to offer the ladies there. Why come into a section and berate the women in it? I don't do it to FF women. Why come in here and say that BFing women are self righteous and making you feel bad?

Who berated the women in this section?

I only see comments on the two very heated articles the OP linked to and the harm, not help that they do.

It's not this thread! It's all the time!

 

[Dragonfly]

https://suite101.com/article/the-risks-and-disadvantages-of-formula-feeding-a85064 is this link offensive?

 

[freckleonear]

Biologically, it's correct that breastmilk is the norm and formula carries risks. I think if everyone knew that then there would be much better support for breastfeeding (from health professionals, families, work places, the public) and so more women would succeed at breastfeeding for longer. Unfortunately, we are currently in a situation where the vast majority of women stop breastfeeding within the first few weeks, and talking about the risks of formula does tend to make them feel guilty. The knowledge needs to get out there, but it's difficult to do that without hurting people and so the cycle of failure continues.

I do think it's sad (and I've seen this a lot in the trimester forums) that formula is seen as an equal choice to breastmilk rather than a substitute for when breastmilk is not available.

 

[goddess25]

Come on, its all about perspective ladies.

We all know that most women have 'issues' with breastfeeding in terms of latching, in terms of initial low supply, in terms of bleeding nipples, blocked ducts and mastitis along with a few others. I did not state that you did not have issues, I said that you guys obviously never had Major enough issues because you were lucky enough to work through them and still have the ability to bf.

All I said was spare a thought for the women who have the inability to work through these issues and that have a utterly valid reason for not being able to breast feed. I am envious of you being able to do it and not having to resort to formula for your children because yes we do know the risks involved with FF, and obviously that breast is best...

This forum is all about support for one another no matter our circumstances. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to explain why you find some articles offensive. They are not very objective...very black and white and that's it.

I want to offer advice to new moms in terms of breast feeding, I want to turn someones decision from FF to BF or at least to give it a try. I believe its worth pursuing and I believe that everyone has to do their research and make there informed choice based on what they have read.

I had forgotten why I avoided this section, because ultimately you just get biased opinions..without the perspective.

For the record... I will be having a 3rd child and as painful as it is to me psychologically to BF because I suck at it, I will still be doing it to try and give my child all the benefits that we all know are there.

 

[Dragonfly]

Perhaps formula feeding mums could not look at the risks of formula feeding then and avoid things like that rather than coming in here reading them and getting offended? I dont look at stuff that offends me. No ones intending risks and facts to offend just to educate so maybe some mums can get educated on risks of formula . If it didnt work out for you you would want it to work for other mums no?

 

[freckleonear]

Regarding guilt, I know lots of people (on another less-mainstream forum) who formula fed their babies first time round but are passionate lactivists who are very vocal about the risks of formula. I know if I ever failed to breastfeed for whatever reason then I would be devastated, but it wouldn't change my fundamental beliefs about formula because those are based on fact. Yet on a more mainstream forum like this, a lot of people get hurt and guilty if negatives about formula are mentioned. The only real difference I can see between the two groups is that the first group freely acknowledge the risks of formula, so I'm wondering if the very common "breast is best but formula is fine too" message actually increases feelings of guilt?

 

[vintage67]

Perhaps formula feeding mums could not look at the risks of formula feeding then and avoid things like that rather than coming in here reading them and getting offended? I dont look at stuff that offends me. No ones intending risks and facts to offend just to educate so maybe some mums can get educated on risks of formula . If it didnt work out for you you would want it to work for other mums no?

I do wish other women success and even offer advice. All of things that I desperately tried that didn't work might work for someone else.

But I also want to reassure a woman that it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work out. When you've come as close to suicide as I did over being unable to breastfeed, you don't want to see another woman get that bogged down in grief. I've punched my breasts until they were bruised; I've looked at my baby and screamed 'why don't you love me?' when he wouldn't latch; I've been through wanting to find another woman to give my baby to, a mom who is making milk because she is will be a "better" mother.

If you think all that sounds extreme, well I did to, but I found out a lot of women suffer that kind of grief and depression at not being able to breastfeed. It's very real.

It's something to keep in mind before you go too far down the road those articles promote.

 

[Kess]

I find it a bit odd that the mums that "failed" at BFing seem the most offended any time a BFing mom brings up the benefits of BFing. I have NEVER begrudged a mother for FF. NEVER.

Ozzie, those two articles cited went WAYYYY beyond the "benefits" of breastmilk; in fact that was the point of both. The point was that both articles felt that wasn't "enough" and that formula must be presented as up there with lead based paint and cigarettes as risks to babies.
This of course, leaves a woman with no place to go if she "fails" at breastfeeding. ( a horrible word choice )

You can't smile and stick out a flower and say you have no problem with FF if a mother can't truly breastfeed after you have told people that their child will likely be cancer ridden, obese and stupid if you pour poison (formula) down their throats. ( not "you" as in Ozzie, "you" as in general)

That is why articles like this do more harm than good.

The articles are not saying formula is like lead-based paint or cigarettes at all . The point they are making is that presenting "formula or breastmilk" like two alternative choices (complete with a pros and cons list in some cases) for how to feed your baby is disingenuous. There is the biologically normal way to feed your baby, and a substitute. That substitute is of course very useful if people can't BF, and no-one is saying anyone is a bad mother for FF, and certainly no-one should feel guilty for BFing not working out for them. That would be like saying I should feel guilty for my disability which sometimes prevents me from taking LO places/groups/classes I would love to take him to and I'm sure would benefit him. We lead a more solitary life than I think is normal and natural which probably isn't ideal for his development. But I don't feel guilty and I don't believe people should refrain from talking about how much their LOs enjoy whatever group or that group activities are good for babies or whatever. I can't help my disability, I was born with it, just like many people can't help not being able to BF - either they have a medical problem or the system let them down. So why should I, or any people who couldn't BF, feel guilty for something out of our control?

The point to the articles is, the current way of talking about "Breast is best" puts formula as the norm, and although that might make FF moms feel better (though as I've said above they've nothing to feel bad about in the first place) it plays right into the hands of the formula companies and reduces BFing rates, which in turn reduces the support new moms get when establishing BFing, which will lead to more moms who want to BF not being able to.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I have to say though, I hate threads like this. This kind of thing should be in news and debates. Women should not feel guilty when they come into the BFing section and be able to freely ask for advice.

 

[Dragonfly]

Perhaps formula feeding mums could not look at the risks of formula feeding then and avoid things like that rather than coming in here reading them and getting offended? I dont look at stuff that offends me. No ones intending risks and facts to offend just to educate so maybe some mums can get educated on risks of formula . If it didnt work out for you you would want it to work for other mums no?

I do wish other women success and even offer advice. All of things that I desperately tried that didn't work might work for someone else.

But I also want to reassure a woman that it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't work out. When you've come as close to suicide as I did over being unable to breastfeed, you don't want to see another woman get that bogged down in grief. I've punched my breasts until they were bruised; I've looked at my baby and screamed 'why don't you love me?' when he wouldn't latch; I've been through wanting to find another woman to give my baby to, a mom who is making milk because she is will be a "better" mother.

If you think all that sounds extreme, well I did to, but I found out a lot of women suffer that kind of grief and depression at not being able to breastfeed. It's very real.

It's something to keep in mind before you go too far down the road those articles promote.

I respect that but it dosnt change the risks which are taboo. I am not sure why you are here really. This thread is discussion why the risks arnt discussed and its always the same answer, guilt and anger. No ones calling any one crappy mum or anything, I doubt any ones even thinking that. More want to sympathise with you as it is an awful thing that happened to you.

 

[andella95]

I have to say though, I hate threads like this. This kind of thing should be in news and debates. Women should not feel guilty when they come into the BFing section and be able to freely ask for advice.

I agree with you on that one....the thing that made it so hard for me when I was having so many issues with breastfeeding and resisting supplementing was because of things like this being posted.

To me, this is not an issue of breastfeeders vs formula feeders at all. I came here looking for support originally and would find things like this. Things like this weren't helpful nor supportive to a mother struggling with serious supply issues after postpartum hospitalization.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

On that same note though, if you didn't manage to breastfeed for what ever reason, it might be best just to bypass these threads. I know there is a support group in FF. It just causes striff and turns into BF vs FF.

 

[andella95]

On that same note though, if you didn't manage to breastfeed for what ever reason, it might be best just to bypass these threads. I know there is a support group in FF. It just causes striff and turns into BF vs FF.

But what about those who are currently going through it? This isn't about me.

i'm on the other side...i feel no guilt and am totally comfortable with formula now. my baby is healthy and thriving now.

 

[Kess]

I have to say though, I hate threads like this. This kind of thing should be in news and debates. Women should not feel guilty when they come into the BFing section and be able to freely ask for advice.

Apologies, that would be the correct place for it. I didn't think because I don't think I've ever been in News and Debates. Is there a way to get hold of a Mod to ask it be moved?

ETA: Though it wasn't really intended to be a debate. More a discussion of whether by avoiding telling the bald truth in order to not hurt people's feelings, we are making the situation worse and causing more people to be in the position of feeling like they've 'failed' at BFing and so the cycle continues.

 

[Arcanegirl]

I have moved it

 

[andella95]

In this section it doesn't bother me in the least, lol.