Breast is not best, language, guilt and lactivism musings

[vintage67]

I absolutely do not see this as "BF vs FF". That would imply that someone is saying FF is better or as good. No one has said that.

The issue posed was how to promote breastfeeding and how that promotion is perceived.

I think it's pretty clear that quite a few people, including some breastfeeders, are uncomfortable with a "risk based" approach to education instead of a more positive, health benefits approach.

 

[Arcanegirl]

Andella, Ozzie and Vintage...there is a re-occuring pattern here, the same names coming up and reporting posts. Can I suggest as it seems to have gone over your heads when someone else suggests it...If you cannot offer advice or support and are only reading a thread which you know you will get offended by...then just don't read it?
It seems like nobody can even cough in a thread without one of you three reporting it..

 

[vintage67]

I did not report a single post in this thread, thank you, and in all my time on baby on bump have only hit the report button maybe 5 times.

 

[Dragonfly]

I have to say though, I hate threads like this. This kind of thing should be in news and debates. Women should not feel guilty when they come into the BFing section and be able to freely ask for advice.

Apologies, that would be the correct place for it. I didn't think because I don't think I've ever been in News and Debates. Is there a way to get hold of a Mod to ask it be moved?

ETA: Though it wasn't really intended to be a debate. More a discussion of whether by avoiding telling the bald truth in order to not hurt people's feelings, we are making the situation worse and causing more people to be in the position of feeling like they've 'failed' at BFing and so the cycle continues.

It will continue. And its sad. Some mums should look towards formula companies and health professionals to who have let them down and not mums who promote breastfeeding.

Sadly I dare to even post anything on breastfeeding or speak of it around me because someone will spark on on facebook or in my family with guilt and anger. I do think its sad.

 

[andella95]

Andella, Ozzie and Vintage...there is a re-occuring pattern here, the same names coming up and reporting posts. Can I suggest as it seems to have gone over your heads when someone else suggests it...If you cannot offer advice or support and are only reading a thread which you know you will get offended by...then just don't read it?
It seems like nobody can even cough in a thread without one of you three reporting it..

Oh really? Well wobbles always told me reports were confidential?
'
Hell yeah i'm going to report when patch & ozzie are being bitchy & arrogant as always.

 

[Dragonfly]

I absolutely do not see this as "BF vs FF". That would imply that someone is saying FF is better or as good. No one has said that.

The issue posed was how to promote breastfeeding and how that promotion is perceived.

I think it's pretty clear that quite a few people, including some breastfeeders, are uncomfortable with a "risk based" approach to education instead of a more positive, health benefits approach.

To be fully educated you must know both sides not just one. And people do only know one side out there,dont assume everyone knows the risks of formula I know a lot that dont.

 

[freckleonear]

ETA: Though it wasn't really intended to be a debate. More a discussion of whether by avoiding telling the bald truth in order to not hurt people's feelings, we are making the situation worse and causing more people to be in the position of feeling like they've 'failed' at BFing and so the cycle continues.

Yes, I definitely think that if this was widespread knowledge, the breastfeeding success rate would be higher. Also, it would probably make donor breastmilk more accessible for those who do have problems.

Formula is a fantastic substitute when breastmilk isn't available, but formula companies have done a great job of making it seem normal and an equal option. It's presented side-by-side with breastfeeding as a choice between the two, just like you would choose between a cot or a moses basket. So many women in the trimester forums talk about it being almost as good as breastmilk or pretty much the same. And let's face it, the formula companies do not want women to breastfeed.

 

[MommaAlexis]

I'm going to jump in here, I'm from Canada and there's actually many people telling me to formula feed to have a break, etc. I PERSONALLY don't see that as a reason to formula feed if you can handle the pressure of BFing. I can handle it, and even if I was to formula feed I have no one to watch her so it'd be a moot point. It's cheaper and easier to BF for me. But if I wasn't so head strong I see exactly where people just go to formula feeding. So, this is my opinion, it's cheaper and you don't have to wash a bunch more dishes. And eating something natural is scientifically better then manufactured, so if you're able to do it seems like the smarter choice. I definitely think FF should not be the #1 option for someone who would be fully capable to BF, but with the pressure from society it IS turning into that. Then you have sometimes very abrasive BFers who try to force you to BF, it makes it 10x worse. But in all honesty, it's like saying someone who gives their kid milk from a farm is better then milk from the store. I don't think it makes anyone better or worse, but to me if I had the choice between fresh farm milk that's cheaper or expensive store milk, I'd go with the farm cause it simply makes sense to me. I plan on BFing and I absolutely hate both statements Breast Is Best and Breast is Not Best, because they are both false. Breastmilk comparisons have to factor in emotional wellbeing, physical wellbeing, and chemical makeup for each individual child and person and therefore cannot be generalized to being the best or the worst for everyone.

Note : By fully capable to BF, I mean don't have low supply issues, severe latching issues, phobias of boobs, working moms, etc.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Andella, Ozzie and Vintage...there is a re-occuring pattern here, the same names coming up and reporting posts. Can I suggest as it seems to have gone over your heads when someone else suggests it...If you cannot offer advice or support and are only reading a thread which you know you will get offended by...then just don't read it?
It seems like nobody can even cough in a thread without one of you three reporting it..

I was also told reports we confidential and to report when we had concerns. Wow. I'm just not going to report anything anymore if this is the result.

 

[creatingpeace]

Mods are now announcing who is reporting...I think this is extremely wrong and a breach of confidentiality! I feel those posters deserve an apology.

 

[patch2006uk]

Andella, Ozzie and Vintage...there is a re-occuring pattern here, the same names coming up and reporting posts. Can I suggest as it seems to have gone over your heads when someone else suggests it...If you cannot offer advice or support and are only reading a thread which you know you will get offended by...then just don't read it?
It seems like nobody can even cough in a thread without one of you three reporting it..

Oh really? Well wobbles always told me reports were confidential?
'
Hell yeah i'm going to report when patch & ozzie are being bitchy & arrogant as always.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me arrogant. Putting forward a different view doesn't make me a bitch. But I always enjoy hypocrisy, so this post was fun...

The problem with BFing education at the moment is that the organisations are scared of insulting people. They don't teach pregnant women all the facts, for fear of them getting 'upset'.

By the time this argument is happening in the BFing forum or wherever, it's too late. This conversation needs to happen with pregnant women, so they know where the help and support is before they even have LO.

Honestly, the amount of guilt that some people seen to be carrying is incredible. If there was genuinely nothing you could have done differently, I don't understand where the guilt comes from. I don't feel guilty that I had a c-section. My body just didn't labour. It upsets me, but I don't feel guilty, cos I can't change it. I don't begrudge those who had a natural birth (although I do envy ladies who give birth without issues), but I wouldn't go into the natural birthing forum and blame the homebirthers or natural birthers of making me feel guilty when they mention the risks of c-sections. I don't see that feeding is any different. If your body let you down, then why feel attacked? If you truly believe that there was nothing more you could have done to BF, then why all the guilt?

 

[Arcanegirl]

A mistake on my part for typing too much which I do apologise for.
Reports ARE confidential until it is felt that they are being used to cause negative or bad feelings across the forum. We are aware there have been a number of issues in the bf and ff sections and we are trying our best to resolve, but the continuous bickering and constant reporting by both sides over minor issues is making our jobs very hard to decide how best to deal with it.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

A mistake on my part for typing too much which I do apologise for.
Reports ARE confidential until it is felt that they are being used to cause negative or bad feelings across the forum. We are aware there have been a number of issues in the bf and ff sections and we are trying our best to resolve, but the continuous bickering and constant reporting by both sides over minor issues is making our jobs very hard to decide how best to deal with it.

Thank you.

 

[Fergie]

I was well educated on BF and FF and i CHOSE to FF. I knew the "risks" and it was my decision. I would never berate someone for BF but it seems to be deemed okay for people to write anything they want about those of us who chose to FF.
To say i'm raising my daughter like a biological anomaly (aka a sub-standard chicken) is disgusting and i hope whoever wrote that "article/blog" doesn't end up falling off her self created pedestal.
However i do agree with you Patch on the guilt issue. I feel no guilt. I don't see why i should feel guilty. I did what was best for my daughter and me and tough s**t who doesn't like it.

 

[leelee]

When I went to the NHS antenatal class there was a section on pain relief and we were told the risks of epidural, pethidine etc etc.

I also went to a Breastfeeding class and we were told the benefits of BF'ing but not any risks associated with FF'ing. I think this class would be an appropriate time to educate people.

I was only able to BF both my children for a short amount of time due to various reasons that I am not going to discuss here. I do believe that breast is best though, although I don't feel guilty about FF because I believe in both incidences I gave it my best shot, but couldn't due to external factors.

I do think the articles are extreme and agree with a previous poster that said there are many different elements to being a wonderful mother.

 

[Pramaholic86]

What are the risks of FF?

 

[Dragonfly]

What are the risks of FF?

Type that in to google and see. I did post something a few pages back but was ignored and I wont post any more links for it "offends".

 

[katiekittykat]

I don't know whether it varies from Health Authority to Health Authority in the UK, but in mine BF, and the risks of FF, were rammed down my throat from the booking in appt with the midwife onwards. Which was fine, I had planned to do it anyway. But I mean, literally, rammed. I had to take LO to the clinic the day after we came out from hospital to be weighed (it was over Christmas and they didn't do home visits) and a BF support worker greeted me and watched me feed him while we were there - the same woman came to my house 3 times over the next week.

Which was brilliant - the support is definitely out there if you need it. But all throughout my pregnancy and for 3 weeks after Niall was born, I was led to believe that formula was the worst thing I could do. So, after 3 weeks when I 'failed' at BF (for reasons which I won't go into here), this is where my guilt came from.

I think what I'm trying to say is, I seriously doubt whether there is anyone out there who doesn't believe 'breast is best'. So I felt the articles were argumentative, provocative and entirely unnecessary.

 

[Dragonfly]

from hospital to be weighed (it was over Christmas and they didn't do home
I think what I'm trying to say is, I seriously doubt whether there is anyone out there who doesn't believe 'breast is best'. So I felt the articles were argumentative, provocative and entirely unnecessary.

Oh there are I met them, even I thought formula was better as thats how I was raised. breastfeeding is not supported really where I am and has the lowest rates in the UK. There really are people out there who are drowned in formula company advertising not knowing any different. I still havnt met another breastfeeding mum from my area.

 

[patch2006uk]

I don't know whether it varies from Health Authority to Health Authority in the UK, but in mine BF, and the risks of FF, were rammed down my throat from the booking in appt with the midwife onwards. Which was fine, I had planned to do it anyway. But I mean, literally, rammed. I had to take LO to the clinic the day after we came out from hospital to be weighed (it was over Christmas and they didn't do home visits) and a BF support worker greeted me and watched me feed him while we were there - the same woman came to my house 3 times over the next week.

Which was brilliant - the support is definitely out there if you need it. But all throughout my pregnancy and for 3 weeks after Niall was born, I was led to believe that formula was the worst thing I could do. So, after 3 weeks when I 'failed' at BF (for reasons which I won't go into here), this is where my guilt came from.

I think what I'm trying to say is, I seriously doubt whether there is anyone out there who doesn't believe 'breast is best'. So I felt the articles were argumentative, provocative and entirely unnecessary.

But this is the problem - breast isn't 'best', breast is normal. Formula is a substitute which carries risks. Breastfeeding isn't some nice bonus for you and baby, it's the biologically normal way to feed a human being.