Can i have opinions of this BF article please?

[LoraLoo]

If the FF guilt thing was meant to be for me, I didn't say everyone suffers it. I said there is a lot of it out there

I am pro-choice too, but I am also pro-informed.

I stand by what I said about how many mums IRL I know that truly don't think there is any nutritional difference between formula milk and breast milk.

And I still also stand by saying that even though this article is harshly worded, doesn't make it mean or rude or bad. It just is what it is... blunt facts that not everyone settles well with, hence why it stirs emotions.

I agree with this. I have had many Mums say to me that Formula is so good now its almost the same as Breastmilk. Its just not. I really sympathise with you having to supplement against your will. I was the same with my youngest, he was in and out of hospital as he fell from the 25th percentile to way below the 0.4th, right off the chart. He was gaining, but only ever a couple of Oz a week. They told me he was failing to thrive and pushed and pushed me. I did eventually start to supplement around 6 months but in hind sight i wish I hadnt, he was quite a poorly baby and Im sure that was a massive contribution rather than my milk- I managed to breastfeed my previous child for 26 months, and in my heart I know that if they hadnt pressurised me so much, William would have started gaining more.

Sorry, going a bit O/T here

As for the origional article, if thats their way of encouraging Mums to breastfeed I feel they went completyely the wrong way about it, they should have been promoting the benefits of Breast feeding solely, without slamming formula.

 

[Piper84]

Put it this way. If I dared to ask an FF mum why she bottle fed, I would get blasted. Yet it's OK for an FF mum to run down BFing and its merits because she couldn't/didn't do it, to make herself feel better about it?

I've noticed this in a lot of media and it's a real shame. If you advocate BFing as the best method in an article these days, not even mentioning FFing, you get called "breast milk nazi" or judgemental and insensitive to FFing mothers.

If someone writes an article justifying not BFing for whatever reason, whether it's cosmetic, life style, something to do with breasts belonging to the husband and not the child ( ), they get called interesting for representing an alternative view.

It seems like FFing mothers who have something to prove are a lot louder than BFing mothers sometimes.

I'd just like to add that I'm not talking about all FFing mums, just the ones with extreme reactions to anything promoting BFing.

 

[NellyLou]

I'm on the side of poorly-worded, but the intent is not evil or malicious, it's just trying to encourage the biological normality that is BFing

Call me ignorant but I don't see why just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean it isn't true. Formula is not a replacement for breastmilk. It's a substitution. It's amazing how many mums I see that really believe formula milk is a "good" replacement. It was never intended to be as good as or even close to breastmilk. It was designed to give enough nutrition to keep a baby alive, that's it. It may have this and that added to it these days, but that still doesn't make it a replacement.

I don't see what is so offensive about facts in these debates. I know there is a lot of FF guilt. But that doesn't mean it's OK to make false statements and comparisons about breastmilk, or to bash breastfeeding because you may not have been able to do it.

The article is what it is-- a bunch of facts, harshly worded, but facts nonetheless.

I will never understand why breastfeeding is so maligned by some FF mums. Is it because they could not/did not choose to BF, therefore they feel their choice must be accepted widely and without question, even though it is not the biological norm?

Put it this way. If I dared to ask an FF mum why she bottle fed, I would get blasted. Yet it's OK for an FF mum to run down BFing and its merits because she couldn't/didn't do it, to make herself feel better about it? There are double standards everywhere regarding infant feeding methods.

But as soon as you put actual facts comparing formula milk to breastmilk out there, you are jumped on and bashed, simply because FF is so mainstream. Nobody wants to think they are giving their baby something that doesn't match up to what is biologically intended for them, but the truth is, they are.

I am sorry, but that isn't my fault. I breastfed, yes. And for what it's worth, I supplement with formula now, because I've been told to or my child will be taken off me. (Yes, I am serious. No, I don't like it. And yes, I'm thinking about taking the health professional concerned to court for scaremongering ME as a BF mother, because I refused to bottle feed since Liam was not "meeting percentile lines expected" of a baby his age.)

But that does not make it OK to jump on me because I succeeded at something natural. I honest to God can't stand these debates, because BF gets steamrollered every time for daring to bring out facts, or post articles, that breastmilk is far and away the ideal food for a human infant.

Sorry for the tangent. But I just really, really don't get it. What's there to argue about? You can't change facts. You just can't. You just need to accept them, and move on.

And yes, I'm struggling myself because I've had to give formula against my will... but I don't scream about mothers who EBF and weren't hounded by HVs and doctors like I was to supplement or I will be put into welfare. I've just accepted that in today's society, I am overruled by the mainstream, and there's nothing I can do about it except hope that BF will make a resurgence one day and once again become the norm.

Sorry, but I have no idea where people have been steamrolling breast feeding in this discussion? I think most people have just agreed that the article isn't well written whether the facts are true or not. I ebf until almost 7 months then combifed until ten months. There are other things to take into account besides nutrition of bm, such as the well being of the mom (which affects the well being of baby), weight gain, etc. and I disagree with another pp who says there is a closeness you get from breast feeding cuddles that can't be replicated when formula feeding. It's just not true

 

[LoraLoo]

I'm on the side of poorly-worded, but the intent is not evil or malicious, it's just trying to encourage the biological normality that is BFing

Call me ignorant but I don't see why just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean it isn't true. Formula is not a replacement for breastmilk. It's a substitution. It's amazing how many mums I see that really believe formula milk is a "good" replacement. It was never intended to be as good as or even close to breastmilk. It was designed to give enough nutrition to keep a baby alive, that's it. It may have this and that added to it these days, but that still doesn't make it a replacement.

I don't see what is so offensive about facts in these debates. I know there is a lot of FF guilt. But that doesn't mean it's OK to make false statements and comparisons about breastmilk, or to bash breastfeeding because you may not have been able to do it.

The article is what it is-- a bunch of facts, harshly worded, but facts nonetheless.

I will never understand why breastfeeding is so maligned by some FF mums. Is it because they could not/did not choose to BF, therefore they feel their choice must be accepted widely and without question, even though it is not the biological norm?

Put it this way. If I dared to ask an FF mum why she bottle fed, I would get blasted. Yet it's OK for an FF mum to run down BFing and its merits because she couldn't/didn't do it, to make herself feel better about it? There are double standards everywhere regarding infant feeding methods.

But as soon as you put actual facts comparing formula milk to breastmilk out there, you are jumped on and bashed, simply because FF is so mainstream. Nobody wants to think they are giving their baby something that doesn't match up to what is biologically intended for them, but the truth is, they are.

I am sorry, but that isn't my fault. I breastfed, yes. And for what it's worth, I supplement with formula now, because I've been told to or my child will be taken off me. (Yes, I am serious. No, I don't like it. And yes, I'm thinking about taking the health professional concerned to court for scaremongering ME as a BF mother, because I refused to bottle feed since Liam was not "meeting percentile lines expected" of a baby his age.)

But that does not make it OK to jump on me because I succeeded at something natural. I honest to God can't stand these debates, because BF gets steamrollered every time for daring to bring out facts, or post articles, that breastmilk is far and away the ideal food for a human infant.

Sorry for the tangent. But I just really, really don't get it. What's there to argue about? You can't change facts. You just can't. You just need to accept them, and move on.

And yes, I'm struggling myself because I've had to give formula against my will... but I don't scream about mothers who EBF and weren't hounded by HVs and doctors like I was to supplement or I will be put into welfare. I've just accepted that in today's society, I am overruled by the mainstream, and there's nothing I can do about it except hope that BF will make a resurgence one day and once again become the norm.

Sorry, but I have no idea where people have been steamrolling breast feeding in this discussion? I think most people have just agreed that the article isn't well written whether the facts are true or not. I ebf until almost 7 months then combifed until ten months. There are other things to take into account besides nutrition of bm, such as the well being of the mom (which affects the well being of baby), weight gain, etc. and I disagree with another pp who says there is a closeness you get from breast feeding cuddles that can't be replicated when formula feeding. It's just not true

Agree with this part, its exactly this sort of I'm-better-than-you statement that gets FF's backs up in the first place Thats to do with parenting, not your choice of feeding.

 

[Piper84]

Sorry, but I have no idea where people have been steamrolling breast feeding in this discussion? I think most people have just agreed that the article isn't well written whether the facts are true or not. I ebf until almost 7 months then combifed until ten months. There are other things to take into account besides nutrition of bm, such as the well being of the mom (which affects the well being of baby), weight gain, etc. and I disagree with another pp who says there is a closeness you get from breast feeding cuddles that can't be replicated when formula feeding. It's just not true

She's talking about these debates in general.

You're entitled to your opinion about closeness in FFing, but I disagree. A newborn baby that crawls its way up to your breast as its instinct for its first feed is gonna feel happier, warmer and safer than if it is given a hospital-issue latex/silicone teat.

Again, not bashing FFing as it's very necessary in some circumstances. It's just not the ideal.

 

[Piper84]

Agree with this part, its exactly this sort of I'm-better-than-you statement that gets FF's backs up in the first place Thats to do with parenting, not your choice of feeding.

It's not about being better than anyone, although that statement pretty much supports what has just been said where anything positive about BFing gets "steamrollered". I personally couldn't care less about FFers getting their "backs up", and although I don't think any mother should be made to feel inadequate about feeding, the hyper-sensitivity is ridiculous.

What's important to me is my child getting fed.

 

[lhancock90]

See heres the problem.

BFers think FFers hate them.
FFers think BFers believe they are better than them.

I wish we could all accept and support whichever method of feeding is chosen.



I had intended for this to be more a discussion on the article being aggressive and implying formlua is "killing babies" but hey ho.

I don't think anyone has said they are against BF, or promoting it. But i am against promoting it in the way this article has.

 

[pinklightbulb]

Piper is right, I was referring to BF/FF debates in general, not this specific one.

I also agree with Piper and having both BF and FF, I bonded better BF, when I was forced to supplement (which is still going on) I felt nothing but sadness. My issue not baby's, but I felt like I had somehow lost my bond with my son when I put a bottle in his mouth instead of my breast.

LoraLoo, I'm sorry you were pushed to supplement in the same way I was. It's awful being given "no choice" when a few generations ago, when BF was "normal" it would never be an option at all to force someone to artificially feed against their will.

ETA: But I was commenting on the article and why I didn't feel it was aggressive at all It seems like if someone doesn't agree then it shouldn't be said?

 

[LoraLoo]

Agree with this part, its exactly this sort of I'm-better-than-you statement that gets FF's backs up in the first place Thats to do with parenting, not your choice of feeding.

It's not about being better than anyone, although that statement pretty much supports what has just been said where anything positive about BFing gets "steamrollered". I personally couldn't care less about FFers getting their "backs up", and although I don't think any mother should be made to feel inadequate about feeding, the hyper-sensitivity is ridiculous.

What's important to me is my child getting fed.

If you read my previous posts you would see I have BF all of my children and am pro-breastfeeding. That statement WOULD make mothers feel inadequete about their choice of feeding- saying that their child doesnt feel comforted, secure or warm?!

 

[lhancock90]

Also a FFer. I have no concerns about my bond with my babies. Nor do i think anyone elses bonds are better or worse than my own.

 

[Piper84]

If you read my previous posts you would see I have BF all of my children and am pro-breastfeeding. That statement WOULD make mothers feel inadequete about their choice of feeding- saying that their child doesnt feel comforted, secure or warm?!

I've read all the posts in the thread. I didn't say FFed babies aren't comforted, secure or warm. Just that BFed babies will invariably have more of those sensations. I haven't mentioned the word "bonding" either.

It's a shame that someone who successfully BFed her children would contribute to the FF victim complex by suggesting I think I'm better than FFers from what I said.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I don't think Piper is saying that FF babies don't feel secure or loved or warm. I didn't get that at all. Just that BF is the natural way and that hormones cement a bond BFing that can't be replicated through FF. It's just a different kind of bond. One is triggered by BF hormones, one is not. For me, there definitely WAS a difference. But it may not be the case for everyone.

 

[LoraLoo]

If you read my previous posts you would see I have BF all of my children and am pro-breastfeeding. That statement WOULD make mothers feel inadequete about their choice of feeding- saying that their child doesnt feel comforted, secure or warm?!

I've read all the posts in the thread. I didn't say FFed babies aren't comforted, secure or warm. Just that BFed babies will invariably have more of those sensations. I haven't mentioned the word "bonding" either.

It's a shame that someone who successfully BFed her children would contribute to the FF victim complex by suggesting I think I'm better than FFers from what I said.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I was the one who said it couldn't be replicated, to clear that up

 

[LoraLoo]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Piper also did.

 

[Piper84]

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possibly know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

 

[Dragonfly]

I never wanted to breastfeed and had formula all stocked up when William was born. But tried breastfeeding. Noticed a difference, so I went and done some research on it. Researched all about formula. Didn't like what I read about formula. And I read a lot. Then read all about breastfeeding and liked the sound of it more. To me thats an informed decision on how to feed my children. I assume everyone would make that decision. And no I dont hate formula feeders. And no I dont look down on formula feeders. I dont care how any one else feeds their babies. For my family this is right what I am doing. Suits us.

 

[lhancock90]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possible know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

You are placing a great deal of importance on this.
There are other ways to make babies feel loved and secure, to provide comfort etc. I bedshare.

I FF as i've said, nobody but myself and OH fed the children. Which meant, our babies had the closeness of us both, neither have waited for food, FF doesn't take as long to prepare as is belived! Its still an on demand feeding system.

 

[LoraLoo]

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possibly know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

But its not exclusive to how a baby is fed, is it? A formula baby may get more cuddles and close contact during a day than a BF baby.

I remember once another Mum congratulating me on BF my baby and said 'You just dont get that type of bond if you FF' I was with a friend who had previously FF her babies through her own choice, and she was outraged!

 

[TennisGal]

I think the article doesn't do any favours to anyone - and is poorly worded, and guaranteed to scare monger and upset.

I am an extended bf-er, so I clearly advocate breastfeeding. I think the defensiveness on both sides comes from the fact that breastfeeding is so clearly promoted as the best way, but unfortunately the resources to help mothers breastfeed are pretty poor. I had a fortunate start, but I won't go into that story, as it doesn't represent the 'norm' - but even with on tap resources, second time around I was confused about my latch, the cracks and bleeding.

It's not easy, it doesn't come naturally very often. The instinct may be natural, but the practice is all about a learning curve that...without assistance...can often fail.

I think, then, the promotion of breast is best can often make people feel defensive about how their breast feeding journey worked out...and people who have breastfed successfully can maybe interpreted as smug.

Naturally, you will get insensitive smug bf-ers -and you will get ff who just think bf-ers are laughable idiots.

I think the key is to be confident and happy in your decision - to formula or to breast feed. If you are truly happy and confident, you should have no reason to denigrate anyone else's choice.

As for the bonding thing, I have nothing to compare to...as both bf...but I think a mother will always, always find a way to forge a close bond. Irrespective of how they feed.