Can i have opinions of this BF article please?

[special_kala]

The article doesn't take the worlds need for jobs into account. I would love for more women to at least give breastfeeding a go but the idea of formula just ceasing to exist, well that would destroy a whole business sector and thousands of people would lose their jobs.

Raising the number of babies that are breastfed is great and totally an achievable goal but the idea of no one formula feeding is just silly

 

[special_kala]

Personally I blame men for this divide.

The scientists/doctors back in the day thought they could beat nature and actually take power away from women. "here this man made milk is better then what you can make and don't hold your babies too close and don't feel empowered by the birth of your child we will just give you a enema, dope you upto the eyes balls because us men know better"

Backfired though really because of the mass production and improved quality of formula women were able to fight for their rights and go out to work and now thankfully we have the choice to formula feed or breastfeed and work.

Now if us woman could stop fighting between ourselves about who's doing it better we could take over the world!

 

[Piper84]

The article doesn't take the worlds need for jobs into account. I would love for more women to at least give breastfeeding a go but the idea of formula just ceasing to exist, well that would destroy a whole business sector and thousands of people would lose their jobs.

Raising the number of babies that are breastfed is great and totally an achievable goal but the idea of no one formula feeding is just silly

Surely a minimum of six months' maternity leave helps?

 

[TennisGal]

^^ not sure if kala didn't mean jobs in the formula industry.

Either way, maternity leave is not six months minimum in many other countries - states for example.

 

[Piper84]

The child i bf longest for (3 yr old) WOULD feed for comfort, she had that emotional attachment to it, I had to feed her to sleep and she used me as a dummy. My youngest, he fed because he was hungry, he was never interested in the comfort side of it, I guess it maybe never gave him any. Like I say, no 2 babies are the same. Im sure its the same with FF babies, some feel comforted while being fed, others may not. But im sure they all feel secure and loved, thats whats important.

What about when they were newborns?

When I say comfort I'm talking about that look of relief they get when they get drinking and the "ahhh" look when they're full, that kind of thing. Not necessarily comfort feeding when they're not hungry and just want a human dummy.

Yeah, but my baby was NEVER full, never satisfied, barely gained weight and refused bottles for almost 7 months. She was never once 'milk drunk'. Just because you bf, doesn't mean you get the situation you describe.

The number of women who have trouble BFing is constantly overstated. I'm not downplaying your experience whatsoever, but there needs to be more awareness of the number of women who have no problem BFing rather than the constant focus on the difficulties women have BFing.

 

[TennisGal]

I honestly don't think that many women take to it like a duck to water, and I've plenty of anecdotal evidence that supports this.

For sure, there are few women with problems that actually mean they can't breastfeed at all - but there are plenty of teething issues that can make the whole experience initially difficult, painful, worrying...and with the initial rush of hormones and little support, it can knock the confidence of the new bf-er

 

[special_kala]

I think the number of women who cant breastfeed is overstated.

Most women who breastfeed will run into one problem or another...alot of them very similar to the problems women had 200 hundred years ago, latch problems, mastitis, pain, engorment but the difference now is that most women dont grow up around breastfeeding, they dont live in the same close community with their mums, sils, mils so the normal support group isnt there and the current NHS support isnt adequate enough

 

[NellyLou]

The child i bf longest for (3 yr old) WOULD feed for comfort, she had that emotional attachment to it, I had to feed her to sleep and she used me as a dummy. My youngest, he fed because he was hungry, he was never interested in the comfort side of it, I guess it maybe never gave him any. Like I say, no 2 babies are the same. Im sure its the same with FF babies, some feel comforted while being fed, others may not. But im sure they all feel secure and loved, thats whats important.

What about when they were newborns?

When I say comfort I'm talking about that look of relief they get when they get drinking and the "ahhh" look when they're full, that kind of thing. Not necessarily comfort feeding when they're not hungry and just want a human dummy.

Yeah, but my baby was NEVER full, never satisfied, barely gained weight and refused bottles for almost 7 months. She was never once 'milk drunk'. Just because you bf, doesn't mean you get the situation you describe.

The number of women who have trouble BFing is constantly overstated. I'm not downplaying your experience whatsoever, but there needs to be more awareness of the number of women who have no problem BFing rather than the constant focus on the difficulties women have BFing.

HOw can you say its constantly overstated? I don't rely on statistics... I know what I have been through, so I know other women have been through the same. Just because it's a small number, doesnt mean it's any less difficult. In my case I wish my baby would have taken formula earlier than she did. My life would have been much less stressful. As I said, I am pro feeding baby.

 

[Piper84]

HOw can you say its constantly overstated? I don't rely on statistics... I know what I have been through, so I know other women have been through the same. Just because it's a small number, doesnt mean it's any less difficult. In my case I wish my baby would have taken formula earlier than she did. My life would have been much less stressful. As I said, I am pro feeding baby.

Because it's true

This isn't about your experiences or mine. It's a question of public health, and successfully promoting BFing.

The questions I got from female friends were all along the lines of "does it hurt?" or "how long do you think you'll manage it". It's not six months of torture, but this is how it's seen by a lot of girls my age because of the bad press it gets and all the articles about how certain women gave up and went on to FF and were SO glad they did. What about all the women who overcame hurdles to successfully BF as planned?

 

[NellyLou]

HOw can you say its constantly overstated? I don't rely on statistics... I know what I have been through, so I know other women have been through the same. Just because it's a small number, doesnt mean it's any less difficult. In my case I wish my baby would have taken formula earlier than she did. My life would have been much less stressful. As I said, I am pro feeding baby.

Because it's true

This isn't about your experiences or mine. It's a question of public health, and successfully promoting BFing.

The questions I got from female friends were all along the lines of "does it hurt?" or "how long do you think you'll manage it". It's not six months of torture, but this is how it's seen by a lot of girls my age because of the bad press it gets and all the articles about how certain women gave up and went on to FF and were SO glad they did. What about all the women who overcame hurdles to successfully BF as planned?

So the women who have had issues should hide in a corner and not say anything about their experiences because it might scare moms to be? I think it's better to know what's possible. I never experienced pain at all, or cracked nipples... I simply didn't have enough milk, even after pumping constantly, taking fenugreek, prescriptions etc etc. I still breastfed until my daughter was ten months old and I plan on breastfeeding my next. But I am tired of people telling me that it's overstated how many women have problems breastfeeding. I tell people my story because people seem to think it's wrong to choose to combifeed or switch to formula, when in some cases it's necessary. I don't want mothers to feel bad about needing to give formula.

 

[Piper84]

Yeah, more successfully BFing mums should speak up.

 

[lhancock90]

Yes, there is a low percentage of women who can't PHYSCIALLY breastfeed because of flow problems etc.
But can we address the following, some women don't breastfeed for PHYSCOLOGICAL reasons, some (like me) were on medication which would have left them unable to parent if stopped.

Yes it may be a low number of women who have problems producing milk etc. But why are women who can't for other reasons ignored?

 

[midori1999]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possible know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

You are placing a great deal of importance on this.
There are other ways to make babies feel loved and secure, to provide comfort etc. I bedshare.

I FF as i've said, nobody but myself and OH fed the children. Which meant, our babies had the closeness of us both, neither have waited for food, FF doesn't take as long to prepare as is belived! Its still an on demand feeding system.

I don't doubt that FF babies are loved, but the two forms of feeding cannot be compared as the same thing. In some ways FF can be more convenient; in other ways BFing can be. The ingredients of B milk have been the same since we came into existence; FF ingredients change almost yearly. FF poop absolutely stinks; BF poop doesn't. They are not the same thing.

The issue of comfort was just as important for me as my LO getting his feeds. As I said in my original post, too much is made about the IQ and exam results of BFed vs FFed babies and it's completely divisive, pitting mothers against each other.

I just wonder why more is not said about the level of comfort babies get from BFing, which is not the same as FFing (I had to FF for 24 hours for medical reasons).

But who are you to say what comfort a baby gets? You can tell us what YOU gain from BF, but you cant really speak for a baby can you? You cannot say that FF baby feels less comforted than a BF baby, you just do not know this.

I think everyone on this thread would agree that BF is nutritionally best. However this article does nothing to promote BF imo. I think this country needs to take a good look at the way it promotes breastfeeding as it is clearly not working.

I think breast feeding promotion is working, the number of women choosing to breastfeed at birth is increasing steadily. What isn't happening is women sustaining breast feeding and that is largely due to misconceptions about breast feeding, (the number one reason women give for stopping breast feeding before they wanted to is 'not enough milk' and yet we know that there are very few women who are physically unable to produce enough milk) not knowing what to expect and lack of support or good advice.

As for bonding... There's no doubt that a parents who formula feeds can have as strong a bond with their child as a parent who breast feeds. However, often this has to be almost actively sought out in a way as if you are breast feeding then you can't easily leave your baby in the early days or weeks and you physically have to spend a lot of time with them. Of course, plenty of Mums who FF may do that anyway, but not all do and how many of us have seen someone walking round the shops pushing a pram with a bottle propped up feeding the baby? I have also known people (plural!) who FF their baby while they are sat in their bouncy chair.

 

[midori1999]

Yes, there is a low percentage of women who can't PHYSCIALLY breastfeed because of flow problems etc.
But can we address the following, some women don't breastfeed for PHYSCOLOGICAL reasons, some (like me) were on medication which would have left them unable to parent if stopped.

Yes it may be a low number of women who have problems producing milk etc. But why are women who can't for other reasons ignored?

I am not saying this applies to you, but not being able to BF on certain medications is one of the common misconceptions about breast feeding and many women think they can't or couldn't breast feed when actually they can. I speak to many women who have been told they cannot breast feed on antidepressants, when actually, in most cases you can or if not then a suitable alternative can be found. A lot of women are also told they have to stop breast feeding due to dental anaesthetics, general anaesthetics etc. health professionals owe it to women to give them the correct information. It is heartbreaking for some women to find out sometimes years later that they could have breasted their child but were told at the time they could not.

I don't think anyone is ignoring women who can't breast feed for reasons other than low milk production. However, low milk production is the number one reason cited for cessation of breast feeding before the woman wanted to and it is simply not good enough to have women who want breast feed stop when they don't have to because they think they can't produce enough milk when they can.

If women don't want to b roast feed, that is their decision entirely, they don't have to give anyone a reason.

Can i say.

Yes, i am incredibly offended by this article because of HOW it is written not WHAT is written. I am not disputing FACT.

However i find it aggressive and rude.
I found that a clever use of layout and wording, implies that formula KILLS babies.

I am all for BF awareness, promotion etc.
But not this way.

The facts are the facts. In reality, how they are written down shouldn't make any difference, it still says the same thing.

I disagree that there is any implication that formula kills babies. I think the author is extremely forthright in writing that formula does kill babies and they are not wrong. In the developed world things are much safer due to being able to sterilise, access to clean water etc, but babies in the developed world do die because they are fed formula milks. This is a risk, albeit a very small one, that parents take when they choose to use formula and is why it is so vital that it is prepared and stored properly. If this were more publicised then less babies would become sick as parents would be more aware of the need for good practices when making up formula. But of course, no one wants to hear or read that what they are feeding their baby has the potential to kill them.

I strongly believe that by pussyfooting around and to being frank and honest about the risks of formula feeding we are doing parents and babies a huge disservice. It's not about breast feeding promotion, it is about making babies safe.

 

[lhancock90]

Yes, there is a low percentage of women who can't PHYSCIALLY breastfeed because of flow problems etc.
But can we address the following, some women don't breastfeed for PHYSCOLOGICAL reasons, some (like me) were on medication which would have left them unable to parent if stopped.

Yes it may be a low number of women who have problems producing milk etc. But why are women who can't for other reasons ignored?

I am not saying this applies to you, but not being able to BF on certain medications is one of the common misconceptions about breast feeding and many women think they can't or couldn't breast feed when actually they can. I speak to many women who have been told they cannot breast feed on antidepressants, when actually, in most cases you can or if not then a suitable alternative can be found. A lot of women are also told they have to stop breast feeding due to dental anaesthetics, general anaesthetics etc. health professionals owe it to women to give them the correct information. It is heartbreaking for some women to find out sometimes years later that they could have breasted their child but were told at the time they could not.

I don't think anyone is ignoring women who can't breast feed for reasons other than low milk production. However, low milk production is the number one reason cited for cessation of breast feeding before the woman wanted to and it is simply not good enough to have women who want breast feed stop when they don't have to because they think they can't produce enough milk when they can.

If women don't want to b roast feed, that is their decision entirely, they don't have to give anyone a reason.

Can i say.

Yes, i am incredibly offended by this article because of HOW it is written not WHAT is written. I am not disputing FACT.

However i find it aggressive and rude.
I found that a clever use of layout and wording, implies that formula KILLS babies.

I am all for BF awareness, promotion etc.
But not this way.

The facts are the facts. In reality, how they are written down shouldn't make any difference, it still says the same thing.

I disagree that there is any implication that formula kills babies. I think the author is extremely forthright in writing that formula does kill babies and they are not wrong. In the developed world things are much safer due to being able to sterilise, access to clean water etc, but babies in the developed world do die because they are fed formula milks. This is a risk, albeit a very small one, that parents take when they choose to use formula and is why it is so vital that it is prepared and stored properly. If this were more publicised then less babies would become sick as parents would be more aware of the need for good practices when making up formula. But of course, no one wants to hear or read that what they are feeding their baby has the potential to kill them.

I strongly believe that by pussyfooting around and to being frank and honest about the risks of formula feeding we are doing parents and babies a huge disservice. It's not about breast feeding promotion, it is about making babies safe.

As i said. I do not dispute the facts but i have read a million different articles and leaflets promoting breastfeeding which did so without an offensive and aggressive attitude towards FF.

There are also, news stories linking the act of breastfeeding to the death of children, where they have been accidently smothered. But then i suppose, thats a "tiny risk" that nobody wants to hear about right?

Formula is SAFE. Years and years of research into its use as an alternative has made it so, no it doesn't carry the same benefits as breast milk but its not killing every baby who bloody drinks it.

There is promoting breast feeding and there is bullying about it.

At the end of the day, provided babies are being fed safe, suitable milk, is it anyones damn business?

 

[NellyLou]

Why does it matter that only a small number of women actually don't have enough milk? If you are one of those women it is a big deal.
Before I gave birth I was very pro breast feeding and couldn't understand why some people choose formula. I know better now and this is why I will never make a mother feel bad for how she feeds her baby. Whether you mean to or not, saying that only a few women really can't breast feed implies that you think women are lying when they say they can't breast feed. As someone who so desperately wanted to breast feed successfully, it bothers me.

 

[lhancock90]

I also think i have, every right as a FF mother to be offended by an aggressive article like the one posted. Absolutely. There is a way to promote and educate breastfeeding, but an aggressive, offensive and judgemental attitude to mothers who FF for whatever reason (which each mother will deem valid, and rightly so) is not acceptable.
This article does nothing to bridge the gap between BF and FF.

 

[pinklightbulb]

There wouldn't be a gap if BF was still the standard feeding method to start with. Because it isn't, there a millions of FF mums out there offended by plain facts.

 

[midori1999]

I don't think that the article linked was for one minute aimed at promoting breast feeding. The publication it appeared in has a pretty niche market, for a start.

In what way was the article posted judgemental about Mothers who FF?

As for saying that formula is safe... It contains bacteria that are life threatening to babies. Salmonella is one. Are we really calling something that contains salmonella safe now?

I'd be very interested to see any evidence that babies have been smothered from being breastfed.

 

[lhancock90]

I wish i could record myself. For the last time. I am NOT offended by the fact. But by the aggressiveness of this article!