Can i have opinions of this BF article please?

[lhancock90]

I think the article doesn't do any favours to anyone - and is poorly worded, and guaranteed to scare monger and upset.

I am an extended bf-er, so I clearly advocate breastfeeding. I think the defensiveness on both sides comes from the fact that breastfeeding is so clearly promoted as the best way, but unfortunately the resources to help mothers breastfeed are pretty poor. I had a fortunate start, but I won't go into that story, as it doesn't represent the 'norm' - but even with on tap resources, second time around I was confused about my latch, the cracks and bleeding.

It's not easy, it doesn't come naturally very often. The instinct may be natural, but the practice is all about a learning curve that...without assistance...can often fail.

I think, then, the promotion of breast is best can often make people feel defensive about how their breast feeding journey worked out...and people who have breastfed successfully can maybe interpreted as smug.

Naturally, you will get insensitive smug bf-ers -and you will get ff who just think bf-ers are laughable idiots.

I think the key is to be confident and happy in your decision - to formula or to breast feed. If you are truly happy and confident, you should have no reason to denigrate anyone else's choice.

As for the bonding thing, I have nothing to compare to...as both bf...but I think a mother will always, always find a way to forge a close bond. Irrespective of how they feed.

 

[LoraLoo]

I think the article doesn't do any favours to anyone - and is poorly worded, and guaranteed to scare monger and upset.

I am an extended bf-er, so I clearly advocate breastfeeding. I think the defensiveness on both sides comes from the fact that breastfeeding is so clearly promoted as the best way, but unfortunately the resources to help mothers breastfeed are pretty poor. I had a fortunate start, but I won't go into that story, as it doesn't represent the 'norm' - but even with on tap resources, second time around I was confused about my latch, the cracks and bleeding.

It's not easy, it doesn't come naturally very often. The instinct may be natural, but the practice is all about a learning curve that...without assistance...can often fail.

I think, then, the promotion of breast is best can often make people feel defensive about how their breast feeding journey worked out...and people who have breastfed successfully can maybe interpreted as smug.

Naturally, you will get insensitive smug bf-ers -and you will get ff who just think bf-ers are laughable idiots.

I think the key is to be confident and happy in your decision - to formula or to breast feed. If you are truly happy and confident, you should have no reason to denigrate anyone else's choice.

As for the bonding thing, I have nothing to compare to...as both bf...but I think a mother will always, always find a way to forge a close bond. Irrespective of how they feed.

Great post

 

[pinklightbulb]

I just feel that the bond is different. Not bad, not better, just different. You can't replicate something that isn't the same, because obviously BF and FF are not the same.

I guess I don't see what is offensive about this article, truly. I find it harsh, as I said. But not offensive.

 

[LoraLoo]

I just feel that the bond is different. Not bad, not better, just different. You can't replicate something that isn't the same, because obviously BF and FF are not the same.

I guess I don't see what is offensive about this article, truly. I find it harsh, as I said. But not offensive.

I find the wording very offensive. In the first paragraph it refers to Formula as 'baby junk food', I dont think thats harsh, i think thats offensive to FF means whether they chose to FF or had to FF because they couldnt BF.

 

[Piper84]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possible know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

You are placing a great deal of importance on this.
There are other ways to make babies feel loved and secure, to provide comfort etc. I bedshare.

I FF as i've said, nobody but myself and OH fed the children. Which meant, our babies had the closeness of us both, neither have waited for food, FF doesn't take as long to prepare as is belived! Its still an on demand feeding system.

I don't doubt that FF babies are loved, but the two forms of feeding cannot be compared as the same thing. In some ways FF can be more convenient; in other ways BFing can be. The ingredients of B milk have been the same since we came into existence; FF ingredients change almost yearly. FF poop absolutely stinks; BF poop doesn't. They are not the same thing.

The issue of comfort was just as important for me as my LO getting his feeds. As I said in my original post, too much is made about the IQ and exam results of BFed vs FFed babies and it's completely divisive, pitting mothers against each other.

I just wonder why more is not said about the level of comfort babies get from BFing, which is not the same as FFing (I had to FF for 24 hours for medical reasons).

 

[LoraLoo]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possible know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

You are placing a great deal of importance on this.
There are other ways to make babies feel loved and secure, to provide comfort etc. I bedshare.

I FF as i've said, nobody but myself and OH fed the children. Which meant, our babies had the closeness of us both, neither have waited for food, FF doesn't take as long to prepare as is belived! Its still an on demand feeding system.

I don't doubt that FF babies are loved, but the two forms of feeding cannot be compared as the same thing. In some ways FF can be more convenient; in other ways BFing can be. The ingredients of B milk have been the same since we came into existence; FF ingredients change almost yearly. FF poop absolutely stinks; BF poop doesn't. They are not the same thing.

The issue of comfort was just as important for me as my LO getting his feeds. As I said in my original post, too much is made about the IQ and exam results of BFed vs FFed babies and it's completely divisive, pitting mothers against each other.

I just wonder why more is not said about the level of comfort babies get from BFing, which is not the same as FFing (I had to FF for 24 hours for medical reasons).

But who are you to say what comfort a baby gets? You can tell us what YOU gain from BF, but you cant really speak for a baby can you? You cannot say that FF baby feels less comforted than a BF baby, you just do not know this.

I think everyone on this thread would agree that BF is nutritionally best. However this article does nothing to promote BF imo. I think this country needs to take a good look at the way it promotes breastfeeding as it is clearly not working.

 

[lhancock90]

I just wish pro-BF campaigners would give some of their energy to informing people how much comfort, security and warmth a baby gets from being BFed that is impossible to recreate with FF.

They can quote the blatantly obvious health benefits until they're blue in the face. For me it was of course important that LO got all the proper minerals from breast milk in exactly the right quantity for him, but almost as important was that he got fed exactly when he needed with the closeness he needed at that age when a baby needs to be close to its mum. I couldn't really give a toss about the dodgy IQ statistics they throw about.

Nor did i mention bonding. You said it couldn't be replicated, Im sure most FFs would disagree with that. Just because I have breastfed doesnt mean I cannot see other views or think of other peoples feelings.

Nope, but a few others did in response to what I wrote. Bonding is something completely subjective and not something I want to compare as I wasn't forced to FF and can't possible know the difference.

BFed babies are fed as and when they need it, so don't have to wait for water to boil or cool down so don't have to wait for food. They are always right up close to their mums. For convenience, FF babies are often fed by people other than their mums and while in carseats or prams. It's just how it is. Some FF mums might make sure their babies are always fed by one person and always up close, but I doubt it's always possible.
I'm not doubting for a second the bond between any mum and baby, no matter how they're fed.

You are placing a great deal of importance on this.
There are other ways to make babies feel loved and secure, to provide comfort etc. I bedshare.

I FF as i've said, nobody but myself and OH fed the children. Which meant, our babies had the closeness of us both, neither have waited for food, FF doesn't take as long to prepare as is belived! Its still an on demand feeding system.

I don't doubt that FF babies are loved, but the two forms of feeding cannot be compared as the same thing. In some ways FF can be more convenient; in other ways BFing can be. The ingredients of B milk have been the same since we came into existence; FF ingredients change almost yearly. FF poop absolutely stinks; BF poop doesn't. They are not the same thing.

The issue of comfort was just as important for me as my LO getting his feeds. As I said in my original post, too much is made about the IQ and exam results of BFed vs FFed babies and it's completely divisive, pitting mothers against each other.

I just wonder why more is not said about the level of comfort babies get from BFing, which is not the same as FFing (I had to FF for 24 hours for medical reasons).

FF poop doesn't always absolutely stink....
For me, feeding is first, comfort second. Comfort won't keep my baby alive.
I was not BF, my cousin was BF, i have higher exam results at every stage. Do i think thats down to the way we were fed? No. I don't.

How do you know FF aren't as comforted? Nobody can ask a baby this. My FF girls are happy, content, loved and safe.

 

[pinklightbulb]

I just feel that the bond is different. Not bad, not better, just different. You can't replicate something that isn't the same, because obviously BF and FF are not the same.

I guess I don't see what is offensive about this article, truly. I find it harsh, as I said. But not offensive.

I find the wording very offensive. In the first paragraph it refers to Formula as 'baby junk food', I dont think thats harsh, i think thats offensive to FF means whether they chose to FF or had to FF because they couldnt BF.

I suppose because nobody actually knows for sure what goes into formula, I didn't find this offensive (and to reiterate again, I do FF my son probably 70-30 these days, and not by choice). I know I am giving Liam something substandard when I bottle feed him. I choose whether or not to be offended and I'm not. Given the choice I would not be FFing him at all. And I am offended by that-- the fact that I was not given the option to keep giving him what is meant for him because he didn't match up to some stupid chart.

 

[Piper84]

But who are you to say what comfort a baby gets? You can tell us what YOU gain from BF, but you cant really speak for a baby can you? You cannot say that FF baby feels less comforted than a BF baby, you just do not know this.

There is scientific research which suggests babies who are close to their mothers have a steadier heartbeat and lower stress levels.

I've already explained that BF babies are, by definition, almost constantly by their mothers' sides, especially in the early weeks. I've also said that some FF babies are kept close too (as lhancock says was the case with hers), but this is not always the case.

I'll post the research later.

 

[Piper84]

FF poop doesn't always absolutely stink....
For me, feeding is first, comfort second. Comfort won't keep my baby alive.
I was not BF, my cousin was BF, i have higher exam results at every stage. Do i think thats down to the way we were fed? No. I don't.

How do you know FF aren't as comforted? Nobody can ask a baby this. My FF girls are happy, content, loved and safe.

BFed babies are comforted at the same time as being fed as a physical necessity. You don't have to prioritise either one.

Can you read what I wrote about IQ and exam results again please? You've misunderstood my post.

 

[LoraLoo]

I just feel that the bond is different. Not bad, not better, just different. You can't replicate something that isn't the same, because obviously BF and FF are not the same.

I guess I don't see what is offensive about this article, truly. I find it harsh, as I said. But not offensive.

I find the wording very offensive. In the first paragraph it refers to Formula as 'baby junk food', I dont think thats harsh, i think thats offensive to FF means whether they chose to FF or had to FF because they couldnt BF.

I suppose because nobody actually knows for sure what goes into formula, I didn't find this offensive (and to reiterate again, I do FF my son probably 70-30 these days, and not by choice). I know I am giving Liam something substandard when I bottle feed him. I choose whether or not to be offended and I'm not. Given the choice I would not be FFing him at all. And I am offended by that-- the fact that I was not given the option to keep giving him what is meant for him because he didn't match up to some stupid chart.

You aren't offended but others clearly aren't. If the OP didn't find the article offensive she wouldn't have started this thread. The author knew exactly what she was doing when she wrote that article, she was wanting the shock response, which she got.

I couldn't agree more with you about not being given the choice. FF is often too quickly pushed on to parents. I cant imagine being a 1st time Mum and having health proffessionals pushing FF on to them, with no experience to back your own judgement up, it must be really ahrd for them.

 

[lhancock90]

FF poop doesn't always absolutely stink....
For me, feeding is first, comfort second. Comfort won't keep my baby alive.
I was not BF, my cousin was BF, i have higher exam results at every stage. Do i think thats down to the way we were fed? No. I don't.

How do you know FF aren't as comforted? Nobody can ask a baby this. My FF girls are happy, content, loved and safe.

BFed babies are comforted at the same time as being fed as a physical necessity. You don't have to prioritise either one.

Can you read what I wrote about IQ and exam results again please? You've misunderstood my post.

I understood what you said, i was just addressing the fact before someone else picked up on it and rolled with it.

I don't understand how FF aren't comforted whilst being fed, they are in my arms, snuggled close, head against my chest, hearing my heartbeat, they know i am there, they can smell me, see me, hear me speak to them. Tell me exactly, minus the nipple, how that is less comforting?

 

[LoraLoo]

FF poop doesn't always absolutely stink....
For me, feeding is first, comfort second. Comfort won't keep my baby alive.
I was not BF, my cousin was BF, i have higher exam results at every stage. Do i think thats down to the way we were fed? No. I don't.

How do you know FF aren't as comforted? Nobody can ask a baby this. My FF girls are happy, content, loved and safe.

BFed babies are comforted at the same time as being fed as a physical necessity. You don't have to prioritise either one.

Can you read what I wrote about IQ and exam results again please? You've misunderstood my post.

I agree with this part . However comfort and feeding dont have to go hand in hand. Comfort and security also comes from responding to your babies cries etc.

Yet again this thread has turned into FF vs BF and away from the origional post.

 

[lhancock90]

Can i say.

Yes, i am incredibly offended by this article because of HOW it is written not WHAT is written. I am not disputing FACT.

However i find it aggressive and rude.
I found that a clever use of layout and wording, implies that formula KILLS babies.

I am all for BF awareness, promotion etc.
But not this way.

 

[LoraLoo]

FF poop doesn't always absolutely stink....
For me, feeding is first, comfort second. Comfort won't keep my baby alive.
I was not BF, my cousin was BF, i have higher exam results at every stage. Do i think thats down to the way we were fed? No. I don't.

How do you know FF aren't as comforted? Nobody can ask a baby this. My FF girls are happy, content, loved and safe.

BFed babies are comforted at the same time as being fed as a physical necessity. You don't have to prioritise either one.

Can you read what I wrote about IQ and exam results again please? You've misunderstood my post.

I understood what you said, i was just addressing the fact before someone else picked up on it and rolled with it.

I don't understand how FF aren't comforted whilst being fed, they are in my arms, snuggled close, head against my chest, hearing my heartbeat, they know i am there, they can smell me, see me, hear me speak to them. Tell me exactly, minus the nipple, how that is less comforting?

In her defense the milk contains hormones which do relax baby. I'd say this is different to feeling secure and comforted though?

 

[pinklightbulb]

Liam's my second son and I went in armed with all the knowledge and facts in the world about BF and threw them at the HV....

Who didn't care a hoot and insisted I was starving him, and if I "insisted" on "BF when it is harming him" then I would be put straight onto welfare watch.

Liam was gaining. Slowly, but he was. My first son was also a slow gainer. I am 4'10" and was never going to have big babies. Incidentally, I was a slow gainer myself.

But as he wasn't on the charts, and not gaining at a rate they "liked" I was told he would be taken from me if I continued to neglect him.

This is why I feel so strongly about this article not being offensive. It is blunt but maybe it is needed to get the point across that FF should not be the "normal" option. If it wasn't, this would not have happened to me, or any other BF mum in an FF society who is told her milk is not good enough.

 

[LoraLoo]

Can i say.

Yes, i am incredibly offended by this article because of HOW it is written not WHAT is written. I am not disputing FACT.

However i find it aggressive and rude.
I found that a clever use of layout and wording, implies that formula KILLS babies.

I am all for BF awareness, promotion etc.
But not this way.

This.

 

[NellyLou]

Exactly, it wasn't a bf vs ff debate originally. It was a discussion about the way an article was written.

 

[LoraLoo]

Liam's my second son and I went in armed with all the knowledge and facts in the world about BF and threw them at the HV....

Who didn't care a hoot and insisted I was starving him, and if I "insisted" on "BF when it is harming him" then I would be put straight onto welfare watch.

Liam was gaining. Slowly, but he was. My first son was also a slow gainer. I am 4'10" and was never going to have big babies. Incidentally, I was a slow gainer myself.

But as he wasn't on the charts, and not gaining at a rate they "liked" I was told he would be taken from me if I continued to neglect him.

This is why I feel so strongly about this article not being offensive. It is blunt but maybe it is needed to get the point across that FF should not be the "normal" option. If it wasn't, this would not have happened to me, or any other BF mum in an FF society who is told her milk is not good enough.

I know he is your 2nd baby, I can see that from your avatar, I was making a point that if experienced Mums feel bullied, what chance do first time Mums? Hence why i said 'them' and not 'you'

ETA- I think the charts should be scrapped in all honest.

 

[Dragonfly]

Is there an article on the facts of formula feeding that dosnt offend formula feeding mums? genuine question. I havnt seen one that dosnt offend yet.