Car seat safety issue

[loeylo]

My daughter (20 months) constantly escapes from her car seat. She's rear facing and we use joie car seats (I-anchor in our car, tilt in grandparents) - she squeezed the straps off so is left with effectively a bit around her waist and the crotch strap bit. She can do this within a few seconds.

Her straps are tight enough, they are at the correct height in relation to her shoulders and aren't twisted or anything.

I called joie a few months back who asked me to take a picture of her in the seat so they could check it and they agreed it was done properly. They sent us sticky backed pads and advised us to buy a 5 point plus anti escape system which we did. She can still escape.

I don't know what to do next, I did look at the cosatto car seats with in built 5point plus, or a car seat with an impact shield. For those options it looks as though we need to turn her forward, which I'm reluctant to do, but I guess it might need to happen!

She's quite petite for her age (still in 9-12 clothes) but she is definitely over 20lbs which I know means she technically can go forward.

Does anyone have any ideas? I don't want to go spend a fortune on a new car seat which she will still just escape from. She also hates going into her car seat now too which was another appeal of the cosatto ones as they are less "boring" with all the bright colours etc.

 

[misspriss]

Are you in the UK? I am assuming by the lack of the chest clip, which helps keep the straps on and in place. Would this help?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Baby-Products/Houdini-Stop-Twin-Pack/B00VKALWWE

I may actually look for a similar product for the buggy, as my kids are always weasling out of the buggy straps.

 

[misspriss]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007FAI2AS/ref=twister_B01L0MHB3U?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Or this?

 

[loeylo]

The car seat manufacturer advised against chest clips. Yes, I'm in the UK. The one in the second link is what we already have on our seat, it stopped her escaping for about a day and slowed her down for a while but now she can still escape from that in about 1 minute. She's so determined!

 

[misspriss]

The car seat manufacturer advised against chest clips. Yes, I'm in the UK. The one in the second link is what we already have on our seat, it stopped her escaping for about a day and slowed her down for a while but now she can still escape from that in about 1 minute. She's so determined!

Well I hope someone from the UK has a solution.

All the car seats in the US have chest clips and I have not heard of any escapees, I guess that is one of the risks/benefits that the powers that be weighed and decided it was worth the risk here if it kept kids in the seat and properly positioned. Guess it's just one of those things, you know?

Just as a mom, I'd rather have my kid rear facing with a chest clip than turn a child under 2 forward facing without one. Impact shield seats can be very dangerous in a roll over situation I've heard, but it depends on the type of car you drive how big of a risk that is. I'm not even sure you can use them in the US (I had one when I was a kid though!) My 26 month and 4 year old are still rear facing.

Is she mature enough to be bribed? Like if you stay in your straps, you can have a treat when we get where we are going? I know that would work for my 4 yo but I'm not sure about my 26 m let alone a 20 m old. Or maybe some new kind of toy that is distracting enough to keep her busy?

Or try this?

https://thecarseatlady.com/houdini/

Also has some good tips on behavior modification, like making sure dolls and toys are safe in the car seat and stuff.

 

[loeylo]

Apparently chest clips are illegal in the U.K because they put too much pressure on a kids chest in event of a collision.

Apparently impact shields are now showing to be safer in collisions than harnesses, and in Europe many car seat manufacturers are now advising that they are safer than harnesses. The way I see it, anything would be safer than what we have now. I'm definitely not using chest clips because 1) they are illegal and I do think that UK car seat laws are really stringent and there is probably a good reason for banning them, and 2) she will be 2 soon and we only planned to keep her rear facing until around then anyway.

She can be bribed if she is in a good mood. But she is deep in the throws of terrible twos.

 

[loeylo]

Forgot to answer what type of car we have. It's a vw Tiguan so I consider it to be pretty safe, but I guess it's extra height could make rolling easier? I'm actually getting really worried about what do to, I am very car seat safety conscious.

 

[Rainbow82]

We got ours refunded when DS escaped his Joie ianchor in the motorway. There's loads of issues with them now. Get a refund and buy a new one? There's a Facebook group called Joie ianchor car seat issues you could try for some more suggestions though?

 

[Rainbow82]

Forgot to add we also had issue with DS absolutely refusing to get in the Joie seat by the end so I'm guessing he wasn't comfortable because we have swapped to a different rear facing seat and don't have the issue of him refusing any more, he seems much more comfortable in his new seat, so it may be the seat that's uncomfortable for your DD rather than being rear facing that she doesn't like.

 

[.Mrs.B.]

I would go for the impact shield. FF and strapped in will be safer than RF unstrapped. Your daughter is still 1 so it might be a while before she can be trusted to not climb out.
I've bought the Jane Montecarlo seat for my son (although I'm keeping him in his 5 point until he reaches 18 kilos), it was meant to be very safe and it had the option of an impact shield. It reclines ever so slightly and the headrest can hug their head to keep it in place when they sleep.

 

[WackyMumof2]

If you opt for a new seat, try Diono. My little man has yet to reach the escape artist stage but my sister has a 4 and 2 year old. Miss 2 is a bit of a little mischief but even she can't escape that seat or it's chest clip. They are expensive (around $600NZ) BUT in saying that, should you decide to, the Rainian (I've got the seat down so I have to replace it in about a year) is up to 90lb rear facing and 120lb forward facing. They do have a aluminium frame and a lot of side impact padding in the event of an accident. A lot of money and a 10 year life span (in NZ anyway) but the safety features far outweigh the price or anything else I have ever used. The other side of the coin if you choose not to replace the seat is buying a Houdini Strap. My DS2 was an escape artist too but he couldn't get past that. If I had known about Diono when he was little, that would have been all I invested in.

 

[misspriss]

Apparently chest clips are illegal in the U.K because they put too much pressure on a kids chest in event of a collision.

Apparently impact shields are now showing to be safer in collisions than harnesses, and in Europe many car seat manufacturers are now advising that they are safer than harnesses. The way I see it, anything would be safer than what we have now. I'm definitely not using chest clips because 1) they are illegal and I do think that UK car seat laws are really stringent and there is probably a good reason for banning them, and 2) she will be 2 soon and we only planned to keep her rear facing until around then anyway.

She can be bribed if she is in a good mood. But she is deep in the throws of terrible twos.

I don't think the US NHSTA is putting children at undo risk allowing chest clips in the US. They have to be placed in the correct place to be safe, if they are not they can place a small amount of pressure on the chest - however the forces of a crash are usually in the opposite direction, it's only the rebound force on the chest clip, which is designed to break easily rather than to hurt the child.

The reason they are illegal in the UK is because seats are designed, for safety reasons, to be able to be opened with one hand, in one motion - not that chest clips are inherently dangerous. Car seat manufacturers like Britax would not put chest clips (if they were so dangerous) on their seats all over the world and save their "safest" seats for the UK - no, they see that chest clips work and use them where the law allows and don't where it doesn't. In fact, according to the car seat lady link I posted earlier, some UK manufacturers do allow for a chest clip.

 

[loeylo]

Apparently chest clips are illegal in the U.K because they put too much pressure on a kids chest in event of a collision.

Apparently impact shields are now showing to be safer in collisions than harnesses, and in Europe many car seat manufacturers are now advising that they are safer than harnesses. The way I see it, anything would be safer than what we have now. I'm definitely not using chest clips because 1) they are illegal and I do think that UK car seat laws are really stringent and there is probably a good reason for banning them, and 2) she will be 2 soon and we only planned to keep her rear facing until around then anyway.

She can be bribed if she is in a good mood. But she is deep in the throws of terrible twos.

I don't think the US NHSTA is putting children at undo risk allowing chest clips in the US. They have to be placed in the correct place to be safe, if they are not they can place a small amount of pressure on the chest - however the forces of a crash are usually in the opposite direction, it's only the rebound force on the chest clip, which is designed to break easily rather than to hurt the child.

The reason they are illegal in the UK is because seats are designed, for safety reasons, to be able to be opened with one hand, in one motion - not that chest clips are inherently dangerous. Car seat manufacturers like Britax would not put chest clips (if they were so dangerous) on their seats all over the world and save their "safest" seats for the UK - no, they see that chest clips work and use them where the law allows and don't where it doesn't. In fact, according to the car seat lady link I posted earlier, some UK manufacturers do allow for a chest clip.

My point is that if chest clips were recommended for my seat then I'd use them, but I'm not going to go against what the manufacturers of my seat recommends, or what our strict car seat laws recommend. I've contacted the retailer where I got my seat for further clarification, they will call back tomorrow.

 

[loeylo]

If you opt for a new seat, try Diono. My little man has yet to reach the escape artist stage but my sister has a 4 and 2 year old. Miss 2 is a bit of a little mischief but even she can't escape that seat or it's chest clip. They are expensive (around $600NZ) BUT in saying that, should you decide to, the Rainian (I've got the seat down so I have to replace it in about a year) is up to 90lb rear facing and 120lb forward facing. They do have a aluminium frame and a lot of side impact padding in the event of an accident. A lot of money and a 10 year life span (in NZ anyway) but the safety features far outweigh the price or anything else I have ever used. The other side of the coin if you choose not to replace the seat is buying a Houdini Strap. My DS2 was an escape artist too but he couldn't get past that. If I had known about Diono when he was little, that would have been all I invested in.

Thanks for the idea but I'm not comfortable using a car seat which isn't isofix and from what I can see the diono is belted. I have heard really good things about it in the past though!

 

[loeylo]

We got ours refunded when DS escaped his Joie ianchor in the motorway. There's loads of issues with them now. Get a refund and buy a new one? There's a Facebook group called Joie ianchor car seat issues you could try for some more suggestions though?

Thanks so much for this! She has escaped on the motorway many times, it's to the point that she escapes every single car journey. She also lolls forward if she falls asleep which isn't safe either. I have requested to join the group now. I have contacted the car seat retailer to see what they say, hopefully they will refund us! The problem is there are relatively few seats on the market which do what I want them to do. We also have the same problem in her spare seat, the tilt.

 

[loeylo]

I would go for the impact shield. FF and strapped in will be safer than RF unstrapped. Your daughter is still 1 so it might be a while before she can be trusted to not climb out.
I've bought the Jane Montecarlo seat for my son (although I'm keeping him in his 5 point until he reaches 18 kilos), it was meant to be very safe and it had the option of an impact shield. It reclines ever so slightly and the headrest can hug their head to keep it in place when they sleep.

I wish there was a car seat which had an impact shield AND a harness! That really would answer all my prayers!

 

[chicky160]

5 point plus is an anti escape system which is I think one of two approved anti escape systems you can use on U.K. Car seats. We bought one last week from mothercare! He cannot get his arms through at all.

 

[loeylo]

5 point plus is an anti escape system which is I think one of two approved anti escape systems you can use on U.K. Car seats. We bought one last week from mothercare! He cannot get his arms through at all.

We bought ours from mothercare last week too, she also escapes from this! Total nightmare 😩

 

[minties]

Impact shields are horrendously dangerous. My friend Bruce does crash tests with carseats. Kids can submarine under the bottom or go shooting out the top.

You can not add Houdini clips, they are an aftermarket product. I am l shocked the company told you to add on a harness, unless it is their brand and safety testes with their seat!

If the seat wasn't tested with these items, the manual should state not to add them. The laws of most countries say you must follow the instructions of the carseat manufacturer. I would presume most westernised places would say this.

This article is from The USA I think but it is helpful.

As for the arms out, I'm of the camp that I'm the boss. I would stop that car and get very angry. I don't negotiate with dangerous carseat practices!

 

[minties]

If you opt for a new seat, try Diono. My little man has yet to reach the escape artist stage but my sister has a 4 and 2 year old. Miss 2 is a bit of a little mischief but even she can't escape that seat or it's chest clip. They are expensive (around $600NZ) BUT in saying that, should you decide to, the Rainian (I've got the seat down so I have to replace it in about a year) is up to 90lb rear facing and 120lb forward facing. They do have a aluminium frame and a lot of side impact padding in the event of an accident. A lot of money and a 10 year life span (in NZ anyway) but the safety features far outweigh the price or anything else I have ever used. The other side of the coin if you choose not to replace the seat is buying a Houdini Strap. My DS2 was an escape artist too but he couldn't get past that. If I had known about Diono when he was little, that would have been all I invested in.

Thanks for the idea but I'm not comfortable using a car seat which isn't isofix and from what I can see the diono is belted. I have heard really good things about it in the past though!

Isofix has a weight limit. Did you know? Locking belts or a belt with a locking clip is 100% as safe as isofox. Isofix got popular because of peoples ignorance about installing correctly with belts. All of my seats are installed using belts with locking clips and are in solid as a rock.