CC/CIO Support and Information Thread

[bumpycat]

Megan - that sounds awful 25 minutes is 25 minutes, though, and you deserve a massive congratulations for getting LO down that long!

I'm racking my brain here trying to think of other things that might help ... Baby massage? Does your LO like to be touched or does she find it too much? Singing? Sometimes my LO won't settle for all the rocking and shushing in the world, but a hearty rendition of a song will stop the crying for long enough to get him calmed down through other means. OH is actually upstairs right now singing show tunes.

This is kind of a longer term solution, but do you have a bedtime and/or naptime routine, and if so, how long is the routine? I've read that high needs babies often improve when put on a strict schedule with really predictable routines. Something to do with being easily over-stimulated and needing the security of knowing what's coming next. A longer wind-down routine can help, too, giving your LO more time to relax and prepare for sleep. I'm doing about a 45 minute bedtime routine, and am attempting to put in place about a 20 minute naptime routine (not very successfully so far, so I'm not sure how much weight you should put on my advice!!).

 

[bumpycat]

ps - you should pm a BnB member called aliss. She went through hell on earth with her DS who was the epitome of a high needs baby, and came out the other side ok. She's really helpful.

 

[megangrohl]

She doesn't like singing, but seems to like being held so tight against my chest. I attempted at her second nap in the crib and she was so upset it took me 45 minutes to calm her down just to get her to sleep. I ended up holding her tight against my chest and she fell asleep for 35 minutes that way. I honestly think this is just what she is like and nothing else will get her to sleep at least not during the day for her naps.

We have a strict bedtime routine. We do 6:30 bath, bottle, bed. I cream her up with lavender lotion with baby massage, and she is usually asleep btwn 7 and 7:30 as long as she is in my bed. I feed her again as a dream feed at 9 PM usually and if she isn't teething she is asleep until around 2AM. Then back down until 7AM. Her naps are at 9AM, 11:30AM, 1:30PM and 3PM and last 25-35 minutes each nap. Without those naps she is 1000000 x worse.

However, the last 2 days have been hell and today her cheeks were really red so I think it is now due to teething she is so clingy. I gave her some teething gel, and some tylenol and she seems OK for now. But she also slept in my bed with her face pushed into my chest (like usual) so...I dunno.

ETA - Lastnight she was asleep by 7:10PM then she woke at 8:00, 8:10, 8:45 and then she was awake until 10:15 and she slept 10:15-1:30 which would be 2:30 with the time change. So if she hadn't woken for 1h45m she would be much more happy but all she has done is cry all day and all night lastnight and I am sure she will do the same again tonight.

 

[HopingFor2v1]

Hey Megangrohl,

First, I'm sorry you and your LO are going through such a rough patch! It can be so frustrating at times being a mommy! I had/have a high needs baby and we are finally at a really good point. I don't know if this is an option (or maybe you've tried it already) but we have been taking Riley to see a Craniosacral therapist for the last couple of months and we've seen MAJOR improvement! Check with your insurance, because to my surprise our insurance covered 50 sessions! At first, it seemed completely hokey, but we've gone from being seen every week, to Riley being seen once a month and her demeanor has completely changed. I've also noticed a huge improvement in her sleeping as well because Riley knows ways to soothe herself.

I just wanted to share our experience with you because it sounds like you've tried so much. Hopefully you find something soon that will help your sweet Lily, as I know how difficult it is! Good luck

 

[megangrohl]

Awwww thanks. You almost made me cry. I will look into that, I had never even thought of that. However, I think she is now teething. Her cheeks were so red today, she was really fussy and she had a teething poop. Yay lol hope it passes soon. She has been teething since she was 2 months old but the last month or so it has been off and on really bad, lots of drool and extremely cranky. I really wish she would just push a tooth through my poor hunny.

 

[MJCP]

Just a thought for something you could try once she's done teething.....my LO is a great night sleeper, but fights naps like crazy. Someone on this board suggesting something to me that seems to be working. I came up with a nap time routine (diaper change, feed in the dark, burp, put in crib). Once he's in his crib, I will not pick him back up unless he poops or needs to be burped. I just stand there, shushing and stroking his head. The first two days, it took me about an hour to get him down for each nap. Today it took less than 10 minutes! He doesn't nap long (rarely past 45 mins), but that's fine by me because he sleeps well at night and this seems enough for him. good luck

 

[.rollinn.]

I did cio/cc with my lo around 3months,it worked awesome. He's still sleeping through the night at 8months. goodluck to everyone trying right now,it will work!

 

[HopingFor2v1]

Awwww thanks. You almost made me cry. I will look into that, I had never even thought of that. However, I think she is now teething. Her cheeks were so red today, she was really fussy and she had a teething poop. Yay lol hope it passes soon. She has been teething since she was 2 months old but the last month or so it has been off and on really bad, lots of drool and extremely cranky. I really wish she would just push a tooth through my poor hunny.

Aww, poor Lily (and poor Mommy)! We are in the same boat with Riley We've been dealing with Miss Crankypants for the last 2 days and I for one want my happy baby back! It seems as though Riley has been teething forever too and doesn't have anything to show for it! I just want these teeth to pop out so we can get this show on the road.

 

[DaisyBee]

Megan I'm sorry things have been so rough. I know all about high needs. Megan is a very high needs child and has been since day 1. She spent all of baby days overstimulated and crying, she never wanted to be put down. It's exhausting when they won't sleep. Jordan was starting to behave the exact same way. Until she learned to self soothe. Now she is a totally different baby. Still a bit high needs, won't sleep unless in her crib, with sleep sack on, with white noise. Pitch dark. Nap routine, bed routine, strict schedule.

It was hard for me to follow what you have tried. As far as seeing if I can help suggest anything.

But teething... If it's teething. Megan was the worst teether and it was tons of sleepless nights for us. Motrin ( ibuprofen, advil, etc) was the only thing that helped her at all. Nothing else touched it. And it's fine for 6mo and up.

If you say she was a good sleeper and doing fine then I think that something is up vs her just being high needs. Jordan had a night of no sleep last month when she got a cold. She cried all night and couldn't sleep..not in a crib, on my bed, in my arms, zero sleep until 5am when she had a 5 minute nap. When was she in the dr last? You mentioned a cold? Babies can get a secondary ear infection after the cold. They will be in more pain when laying down and feel better once upright. I had Jordan in the er and the dr checked her ears and said no issue. When I had her in to her pediatrician a week later she said she was surprised that the er dr could even tell anything as her ears were so full of wax and without cleaning them out there was no way to even tell if her ears were ok. so some drs aren't necessarily doing everything they need to to check I don't think. Neither checked her throat as I'm sure thats hard with a baby, but it was obvious her throat was really bothering her. She had an ear infection that second visit.



Eta - once my kids get so overtired... They really can't sleep then. So after a certain amount of time attempting cc or attempting anything at all is pretty worthless for me. If she liked being swaddled I would look into products that seem similar that could be comforting to her. I said forever that sometimes it seemed that Megan needed to be swaddled as a toddler as I would hold her in the rocking chair and it seemed that is the only thing that helps her... To hold her tight like being swaddled. I've now found a weighted blanket gives her that feeling. So I would look and see if there are products safe for babies that would be a tighter sleep sack or something safe. I'm not sure....
Also you said something about white noise shutting off. I would get a white noise machine and put it on louder than you think it should be and see if it helps. It really calms both of my girls. Megan still uses it and will ask me to turn it up if it isn't loud enough for her. It might help lengthen nap as well. Jordans naps were very short until she learned to settle by herself. If she fell asleep on the bottle or on me then they were very short naps. She would sleep 5-30 minutes and wake crying. My kids get overstimulated easily and can't cosleep. I've found that really they need to do it themselves as me intervening just makes it worse 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time I use my judgment.

 

[Natsku]

3rd night. Put her to bed at normal time (18:30), she just banged the wall and talked to herself for 20 mins then started crying and came to the door. I had to put her back in bed twice and got her to drink a little milk again, that took 20 mins, then she banged and talked for another 20 mins and fell asleep just as my dinner was ready
My BF was on night duty last night so not entirely sure how it went, I woke at 2:50 and heard her crying and again at 4 and I guess she had been doing it the whole time as my BF looked pretty exhausted so I took over, got her to drink a mouthful of milk and calmed her down and then she fussed for a few minutes more and then went to sleep.
She got up for the day at 8:30.

 

[megangrohl]

Thanks guys. DaisyBee it is not an ear infection or by now she would have a fever. That was 3 weeks ago. And I have seen 2 doctors and both cleared her for any infection.

She has a white noise machine but the only way it works for her is if I stay there and keep turning it back on every time it goes out. I want to get one that never shuts off. She had a 40 minute nap this morning, but I also had to have her pushed into my chest tightly to get her to sleep. That is the only way I can get her to sleep. I've tried just laying her there and she won't respond to that.

I also have a strict bedtime routine, and nap schedule as well. And she used to sleep 7-7 when she was swaddled but now she isn't swaddled so I think it's to do with that. She is not tight and secure anymore which is why she needs to be pushed right into my chest to sleep. I don't know when this will go away, if it ever will.

Lastnight she slept 7:30-12 and ate 5.5 oz then slept 12:15-6:15 and was up for the day. Not bad but again, she had to be in my bed or she won't sleep.

And to the PP that mentioned standing there, doing shush pat and PU/PD I tried that for 4 hours but she ended up so upset she couldnt breathe and she started choking and then vomited all over everything. So that is not an option because I don't want that to happen again.

 

[bananaz]

Well last night sucked. She was up every 1-3 hours all night

What are you supposed to do if they're grumbling/fussing but not actually crying? I thought you were just supposed to let them be unless it escalated, but she fussed off and on for like 40 minutes this morning, which seems like a really long time...

 

[jessicatunnel]

Well last night sucked. She was up every 1-3 hours all night

What are you supposed to do if they're grumbling/fussing but not actually crying? I thought you were just supposed to let them be unless it escalated, but she fussed off and on for like 40 minutes this morning, which seems like a really long time...

I would just leave her if she does that. Lilly has gone on for thirty minutes but never cried once. Eventually fell asleep.

 

[Serenity_Now]

I would like to share some success...

Derek has been consistently waking at 3 or 4 AM and not napping during the daytime (or snatching cat-naps only). After suffering through weeks of this, I decided it was time to start a schedule and do some sleep training (with some encouragement from Jon). We decided to move him from co-sleeper to crib in his own nursery.

Day One.

Started with a few naps in his crib. I used the white noise machine and the sheet from the co-sleeper that is flannel.

For the night: I put him in his crib at 8 PM. He only kind of talked/fussed going down. I noticed he was quiet if I sang lullabies. I sang him to sleepiness and then left the room. He was asleep when I left at 8:30 PM.

He woke at 12:30 AM but I did not go in because he wasn't crying, just talking to himself a little, quietly. He must have gone back to sleep because he didn't start getting loud until 2:30 AM. I fed him. Then he went back to sleep until 5 AM! I fed him. I put him back and he talked to himself a little bit until 6 AM when he started really fussing and we got up for the day.

He never cried during any part of this process.

I can do 6 AM.

I cannot do 3 AM.

Day Two.

We had a busy day so the napping schedule was borked. I had been trying to do a morning two-hour nap and an evening two-hour nap.

Night 2 did not go as well. Derek woke up after four hours and started to cry. I fed him and he went to sleep but woke a couple more times - the last time at 4 AM when I brought him into bed and must have dozed off and nursed for an hour. Tried to put him back in the crib but he was having none of it. So we had to get up for the day. One step forward, one step back.

Day Three.

Three strong naps during the day. Solids for breakfast (pears and rice cereal) and dinner (peas). Some fussing and crying before naps, but I soothed him by humming while organizing his closet or laying near him for a nap myself (yay me, multi-tasking)!

Went to bed around 7:30 PM. Woke around midnight but only fussed a little and I didn't go in. Woke again at 2:30 AM and I went in to feed him. Went back down like a champ. Woke again around 5:00 AM and I fed him. Went back down again and slept until 8:00 AM (okay, 7 AM with the daylight savings today but it still counts)! He did amazing! I had to wake him up for fear his diaper might explode!

Day Four.

Bananas for solids breakfast this morning. Napping now at 10 AM (9 AM with time change). He had two more lengthy naps (I put him down every time he was fussing and nothing else would satisfy him -- not a clean diaper, food, or toys/jumper).

Went to bed at 7ish PM.

Day Five.

Woke up at 1:30 AM for a feeding and again at 5:00 AM. Decided not to go back down after that. Napped again this morning. So far, so good. Going down for naps with no lullabies and minimal fussing (less than five minutes). Hoping this means that he is learning to self-soothe.

 

[DaisyBee]

Megan - why did you stop swaddling? Because she is rolling?

I would ask in baby club for ideas to transition from swaddle. I've seen others mention products that are not swaddling but make babies seem more cozy. Otherwise have you tried a rock and play sleeper? We used one for Jordan earlier on but when she was sick I used it again and she still fit. They make them feel cozier, like they are being held. And I don't think they would be able to roll in it. You could try swaddling in one of those.

Does she still have her startle reflex?

 

[kissyfacelala]

loving this thread! thank-you for starting it and keeping it going! some good ideas to start in the new year with my twins!

 

[Natsku]

4th night - cried for 20 mins, standing at the door. I went in and gave her some water and put her back in bed and left. She went to sleep soon after with just a couple more minutes of fussing.
Seems to be going well

 

[DaisyBee]

Natsku - sounds like it's going great!!

 

[bananaz]

So I had no intentions of nap training for a while, but as usual Elsie had other ideas and has suddenly started self-settling for naps. This is pretty shocking for a kid who has protested nap time since she was only a couple of months old. Then again she has always been really independent so I guess the fact that she wants to go to sleep on her own now that she knows how isn't too terribly surprising.

TBH if I had a choice I'd rather have fewer night wakings and keep rocking/nursing her to sleep for naps. Hopefully nighttime will sort itself out too

 

[bananaz]

4th night - cried for 20 mins, standing at the door. I went in and gave her some water and put her back in bed and left. She went to sleep soon after with just a couple more minutes of fussing.
Seems to be going well

Yay! That's definitely progress. I hope it keeps going well!