Disco Derail! - TTCAL/PAL Discussion and Support!

[NatoPMT]

Discipline is tricky, I really had a hard time setting up my own boundaries and sticking to them. I think I'm similar to how you are Nato, I'm very against hitting and I try not to yell. My technique at that age was always distraction and removing her from the issue. As Maddy got older I found that I had to get more stern. We used time outs alot as she got older, but they usually ended up in full blown tantrums. Now that she's almost 6 years old I'm finding our techniques are changing again. Now my punishment is usually an early bed time. I've been trying to teach her to accept concequences, if she does something wrong, she needs to apologize and accept the concequences...but it usually ends up her throwing a fit!

Interesting you say time out doesnt work as thats what that link says Ive just posted to Vic. I think the Time Out in supernnany is employed where there is a real behavioural problem, so is remedial rather than a way of limiting new problems developing.

I think learning consequences and responsibility are what should be the outcome. How you get to that, i have no bloody idea.

 

[vickyd]

Nato exactly like you! I was a teen out of control who had mastered the art of lying to the point of making it a science! Using my parents drama this week, i brought the subject up with both my parents. I told my father how i thought he was a bad parent because he would hit me (not smack but with a fucking belt!) and then make me kneel and apologise. I told him the fact that he had me in private schools and gave me every material thing in the world does not make up for such bad parenting. Rather than hear me out he went on to say that he only ever hit me when there was a good reason like when i was fighting (physically) with my sister. I was like what the fuck??? Seriously you want me to think that physical fighting is a bad thing when you get physical yourself??? Fucking mental logic!

Thanks for the link! I pretty much do what she says really, so thats a boost of confidence for me! The only thing i need to do is to stop leaving the room when she has a tantrum but rather stay there while she has it all the time trying to get her back on track. I must admit that i think sometimes Hero does the "looking at me sideways while she atempts to do something bad" cause half the time i burst out laughing!! Alex always tells me off but seriously she is so cute when she does the sticking tonge out and looking at me sideways routine. Last night before bed we were in the lounge and i was telling Alex the parents drama update and she went to the laptop and picked up the cord chanting "no cord no cord" and looking at me until i saw her. When i saw her and started to get up she burst out laughing and so did I. Alex just rolled his eyes and took the laptop away!!

 

[vickyd]

Time out NEVER EVER has worked! She just laughs the whole time!!!

 

[NatoPMT]

Thats really good that you told him how you feel. The thought of confronting my mum with what she used to do turns my blood cold. Mine was more than smacking too, i got hit with a riding whip, pushed down the stairs, all sorts. But also I went to private school so thats ok then.

Me and Eloise had our first argument the other night and i walked away to clean the changing mat and didnt smile at her and she went MENTAL. I clicked a link on that link about conditional parenting and it says withholding affection as a means of communicating that somethings bad is baaad. As soon as she saw my unsmiling face she got so upset. I went over to her to talk to her and she had a total fit. Crawled off with her head down shrieking like a baby banshee. I picked her up and walked her to another room and sat her on my knee and she calmed down enough for me to explain that she shouldnt roll in poo while her bottom lip wobbled. Have just learned that walking away is bad. This is so hard, gotta read up more about how to do this. Im not a natural

Maybe Hero does it for a positive reaction then? Shes defo after a reaction of some sort. It is sweet you have those moments of joint humour though, me and eloise look at each other and laugh, but not (yet) about her being a mischief.

 

[vickyd]

Hero doesnt get upset if i walk away which is why i guess i dint think it was bad until i read your link lol!! This kid really confuses me!
I realy laughed at why you and Eloise had your first fight!!!! Sorry but thats hilarious!!! Hero has yet to roll around in her poo and im hoping she never will!

 

[vickyd]

Oh and i highly recommend having the same conversation with your mom. Very liberating! and i feel like he's shrunk a few inches, not as critical of my parenting and definately not as vocal about things. Its like hes starting to actually beleive he wasnt the best father like he always would boast about to us at every given oportunity. I also told him that contrary to what everyone says about girls always looking for a husband like their fathers, i chose one that is 100% different! And also that although he thinks Alex is not good enough for me because he doesnt make alot of money, he is the best father and husband and wouldnt change him for someone with more money for anything.
I tell ya VERY liberating!

 

[NatoPMT]

I expect her to be climbing out of her bedroom window and shinning down drainpipes very soon. Covered in poo.

I think your dad's reaction in shrinking a few inches is not what my mum's would be. I tried to talk to her once when she said i couldnt talk to an old family friend and she just started shrieking at me. Everyone shrieks at me

Last august we were all staying at her house and my sisters son was playing up. My sister came downstairs and said she'd smacked him. My mum said she should have threatened him with being locked in the cellar'. She said 'you are too soft on him (despite her smacking him), he needs a good fright so say you'll lock him in the cellar. Thats the problem, you dont follow through on your punishments.'

i was incredulous. I just sat there thinking, so you havent learnt a thing in the last 40 years. She used to threaten to send me to the children's home, or say shed drive me somewhere and leave me. How about communication and respect??? Locking in the fucking cellar my arse. And she wonders why i dont like her. AND you dont follow through on your punishments? So she'd actually lock my nephew in the cellar would she?

I couldnt say it without getting really over wrought and she couldnt hear it - i think if she tells me that i should threaten to lock eloise in the cellar she might hear a few home truths then, if she ever dares to suggest how i should parent like she did.... it will take her to threaten eloise with what I went through to force it out of me, then it will come out very loudly and in the most unhealthy way.

seething resentment? check.

love how you pointed out you chose a daddy over a provider.

 

[LucyJ]

I'm a big believer in being consistant and talking. I try to change my tone of vocie with Benjamin when hes doing something he shouldnt be. Children look for boundaries and will always push to see if they can get away with something which is why being consistent it so important. Also there are some battles that arent worth taking on sometime ignoring some types of behaviour is enough to stop it as they dont get the attention they were looking for. I try not shout just change my voice but have on occassion usually because he was doing something dangerous. My dad was a shouter whereas my mum rarely raised her voice but when she did oh hell you were in trouble. I dont believe in smacking for many reasons and steve and I had a chat about discipline when benjamin was about 1 steve was smacked as a child and doesnt see it as an issue where as I am dead aganist it we had quite a heated debate, I did tell him if he ever raised a hand to benjamin we would be over, I did then calmly explain my reasoning and he took on board understood and changed his mind on the subject which is good. I believe violence breeds violence not in all children but I think is says its ok to hit. Eventually children become immune to it I've seen it with children Ive taught who end up dealing with problems by lashing out. I personally believe that smacking children doesnt teach them anything having said that there is a difference between a pat on the bum (which I still wouldnt use) and hitting a child with objects or so hard they are left bruises. I got smacked once by my dad its wasnt hard and at the time was horrific to me but looking back I can understand why he did as I had done something potentially dangerous.

Benjamin does hear no quite a lot at the moment and does respond alot of the time he also laughs at me too. He is very cute when hes being mischevious so its hard sometimes. I also teach him the behaviour I want for example when he started throwing food around I taught him to pass it to me or put it on his plate if he was finished rather than throwing. I would use time out when he gets older but dont think hes old enough to understand it. We went through a biting stage he only ever bite me so I would say no firmly then put him on the floor told him he hurt mummy 'ow' then say can you say sorry (we've taught him the sign for sorry which he understand) when he says sorry I pick him up give him a cuddle and its all done with. He doesnt really have tantrums he is a bit melodramatic will hurl himself on the floor very drammatically whilst crying I stay in the room but leave him to it when he calms down I'll get him to come and play or have a cuddle. Distraction works too. One of the most important I think with discipline is that both parents are on board and consistent. Have to say the signing has helped as I've used signs like no with the language from a younf age I always explain why Im saying no or why he shouldnt stand on the arm of the chair & bounce.

Nato with regard to books Benjamin quite often sits on his books looking at them I dont mind as I know as he gets older he'll understant that we dont sit on books but right now I dont think its a big deal. If he just pulls them all out for the fun of it then we tidy them away but if he looks at the I dont mind them being out.

Vicky I think its great that you told your dad how you felt and glad it was liberating.

 

[Sparkly]

Nato - I'm very against smacking, I don't believe that there is any place for it, it isn't discipline it's just an excuse to hit children in a vain attempt to control them and all it serves to do is hurt and frighten them. I was smacked as a child, and hit with a belt and hard bottomed slipper.....b@stards! How strange too that I had a private boarding school education I became a very rebellious teenager.....

I chose never to smack my DS, as he got older his discipline was time out and to have his favorite toys restricted until his behaviour was better. This worked a treat, I have raised a balanced young man, who respects authority and has NEVER been involved in a physical fight. He believes in talking through difficulties and coming to a solution.

You will find the right way with Eloise, they do a lot of things that can be overlooked at such a young age. Ben had a habit of trashing my lounge in a systematic fashion EVERY bloody morning, it drove me bonkers, but he did it for a response as he used to wait for me to tell him off.....so I just let him do it and then ask him to help me tidy up afterwards, he soon got bored lol!

 

[NatoPMT]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

Luce, Eloise went through a stage of giving me a nip when she got excited, not out of anger, but we do this thing where I carry Eloise round the house, John hides and jumps out on us, then we all squeal and scream and run round, and she gets so excited she has bitten me - I looked it up and the advice i liked was to gently press the lips together with your fingers and say 'no bite'. She doesnt do it now.

We went through a biting stage he only ever bite me so I would say no firmly then put him on the floor told him he hurt mummy 'ow' then say can you say sorry (we've taught him the sign for sorry which he understand) when he says sorry I pick him up give him a cuddle and its all done with.

This totally isnt a criticism as Ive only just read this myself after upsetting Eloise the other night but this article is interesting

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html

although we are getting into the realm of what the hell do you do then? In response to that article, i think i will (while she's small so for now anyway) pick her up and tell her what the problem is without walking away / showing my displeasure by withholding - not sure if she understands everything i say at the mo, but putting her down and being stern-ish really upset her the other night

He doesnt really have tantrums he is a bit melodramatic will hurl himself on the floor very drammatically whilst crying I stay in the room but leave him to it when he calms down I'll get him to come and play or have a cuddle.

twice Eloise has been hysterical enough to have to put her down until she's calmed down slightly. In that circumstance picking her up makes her worse so I just have to do the above and let it run its course until its safe to pick her up. That article does say its ok to be angry or afraid and those emotions should be accepted rather than controlled. I think thats something i need to think about.

Im not bothered about the books thing either, but just because she said it, it made me wonder what other boundaries she has that i dont and whether i need more, but for now I think too much just means theres more to go wrong...as you say, your battles need to be selected carefully.

Sparkly

I don't believe that there is any place for it, it isn't discipline it's just an excuse to hit children in a vain attempt to control them and all it serves to do is hurt and frighten them.

The least tolerant part of me thinks that smacking is a loss of control that the parent does out of anger when they have run out of alternatives. I know people do think its the right thing to do so that doesnt really mean they have always lost control as that is their tactic, but i do think its a way of controlling the child rather than the child learning a way to control themselves.

Interesting you fund time out successful. Individual children have individual needs, and i suppose if he was older that would factor in as reasoning is more of an older childs ability

I think youre right that very little children have different responses. Demonstrating the consequences (ie by being involved with tidy up) is a good way of starting the process

God its hard. Stuff like withholding love, its automatic to praise good and 'punish' bad with temporary rejection like time out, but that article is based on Rogers, who I have some respect for, pretty sure Hearty once said he was her god at uni. It does make sense but it means I have to find a way of consistently reacting to mischief that doesn't inadvertently do damage. I am going to do some damage at some point. Everyone does.

 

[NatoPMT]

and 8 weeks!! every week your risks are dropping substantially. They always say 12 weeks is the 'safe' zone, but it gets safer way before that.

 

[Allie84]

Hi girls, sorry, I am too ill to read or much less respond yet. I came on here with the best intentions. I have developed a tummy flu on top of the regular flu and I'm spending most of the day in the bathroom. Help meee!

 

[hoping:)]

Jaymes- I was getting really crampy on and off after Penny with lots of discharge. I really felt it was my period coming on but then nothing. Once I finally got my period it stopped. I can’t remember what color the cm was though. It doesn’t hurt to have a doctor check it out and give you piece of mind

Vicky- independent is good! Penny is way more cuddly with Tim and will occasionally reject my request for a hug, kiss or ‘nosie.’ She is a full on daddy’s girl except for when she is not feeling well.

Penny does the thing where she looks at me and does something she isn’t supposed to as well. I also burst out laughing more often not. I’m really trying hard not to now but they are so darn cute!

Nato- I read that by the time our kids are age 4 they have hear the word ‘no’ at least 40,000 times! This can hinder a child’s dreams and ambitions because growing up in an environment where they are constantly told ‘no’ can potentially make them doubt their abilities. Tim and I try our best to be more supportive an encouraging but if Penny is doing something wrong we will tell her something like ‘ please don’t do that. We don’t want you to hurt yourself.’ There are times when I feel like that isn’t good enough and we HAVE to tell her no. Penny already loves to push her boundaries. If I ask her not to do something she wants to do it even more. Tim has put her in time out before too but we try to have a good balance of encouragement and discipline. She was/is too young to understand time out so it mostly translates to removing her from the situation. Discipline really is a fine line and depends on the parents and the child because like you said, everyone is different.

We don’t have too many rules at the moment because we want Penny to explore the world around her. I think our only rules are not to climb the book shelf or eat dirt from our potted plants. I do have a set bedtime. I think it helps Penny to know what to expect and have a routine. Like you, we try to find alternatives instead of just scolding her immediately.

I’m against hitting too. My mom was all for it and would always tell my sister and I “wait until your dad get’s home!” Little did she know he wasn’t for it either and would take my sister and I to our room and tell us you better pretend to cry or else my mom would do it her self. He would make whipping noises with his belt and then send us out of the room pretending to cry. He communicated with us rather than resorting to spankings. I hope I can have a relationship built on trust, communication and respect with Penny. Parenting is a huge responsibility. I just pray that I do a decent job!

I’m not sure if her teeth were the problem of if she is grumpy because she is sick too. Either way Penny deserves a break!

Lucy- Penny and Ben are so similar! She is very mischevious and I do find my self having to resort to 'no' at times because she thinks I'm just being funny and really wants to push her boundries. She loves adventure and is very crafty. I agree that distraction is a huge help at times.

Sparkly- How are you doing?

Allie

AFM- day 2 of our raw food cleanse! Its going great and we have dreamed up some yummy recipes!

 

[LucyJ]

I put him down as otherwise he thinks its a game and laughs Ive put my fingers on his lips before and said no biting but he just giggles and tries to bite again I didnt want him thinking its ok to bite that its a game so put him down I never leave him sit in front of him and explain why 'that we dont bite it hurt mummy' I've started asking him to say sorry as I know he understands what I mean and can say sorry I dont push him for it. I definitely have a 'firm' voice steve calls it my teacher voice. I will always go for positive reinforcement where possible as children respond better to that in my opinion.

Yeah its good that they learn different emotions as they can express how they feel and understand how they feel. Its how we respond to situations that teaches them a lot about behaviour. It so important children know what they can and cant do. Again Ive seen it with teaching and children who are crying out for the parents to put some boundaries in so push & push to see how far they can push the wrost behaviour is the children that get no disipline and quite often are just yelled at. I had one little boy who was a bright sweet little boy but had behaviour issues, all he got was negative feedback from his mum at home I put a lot of boundaires in at school which he really responded to but each day it felt like we were starting from scratch as mum wouldn't follow up at home I remember her picking him up once and I said what a fantastic day he'd had he done some brillant work showed her and his behaviour had been fantastic (he was in ear shot so I knew he could hear me which I wanted), mums response to this was she turned to the little boy and said why are you such a little fucker at home then, I could of screamed.

Im sure we will all find our way and have well rounded secure children. I think Im lucky as I had great parents and I parent in a simialar way to my mum.

 

[LucyJ]

Hoping I always think that when I read what pennys been up to how like benjamin she is they both like climbing. The other thing is if benjamin is quite hes 9 times out of 10 up to know good. Case in point when I was typing before he had gone very quite looked up to check on him and hes managed to get my purse out of my bad and is busy emptying it

I love that hes interested in things and loves exploring even if it does keep me on my toes. Wouldnt have it any other way.

 

[hoping:)]

Lucy- I agree about positive reinforcement and that kids also learn through how we respond.

Yep, we have some curious little toddlers on our hands! I love it too and there is never a dull moment!



I found the thing about hearing the word 'no' 40,000 times. It is actually by age 5 and not 4.

The passage is under a section called Dream stealers: Protect your dream in Jeff Olson's book The Slight Edge. I highly recommend it.

By the age of 5 we've already heard the word "no" 40,000 times versus "yes" 5,000 times. Most of you will internalize what these people are saying to you.

Just think how many times we are told "no" before we are even out of highschool! How does that impact our dreams? When you were little what did you want to be when you grew up? I wanted to be a marine biologist! Other kids might have said a princess or an astronaut. When we are little anything is possible but as we grow up and hear the word "no" over and over our dreams fade and we settle. I gave up my dream of becoming a marine biologist because everyone told me it would never happen. I was told too many people want that kind of job and so I gave up and I settled. I don't ever want Penny to settle. I want her to dream big and know that anything is possible if you are determined and have the work ethic to make it happen.

 

[Jaymes]

Wow! Good things to think on and read all around! I have found that with my kids bad behavior means they are in need of something. Like they are hungry, or it was too cold to go outside at school and they need some exercise or they need some private time with either of us. Sometimes it's hard to figure it out and I have been known to get annoyed and shout. Especially if there is a lot of demands on me at the moment. I am quite fond of taking a mommy time out... I tell them that I can't deal with the situation at that moment and I need to take a break to cool off. Then I go in my room for a few minutes. It helps me deal with situations better.

Thanks for all the foof advice... Every time I talk to my dr I end up taking antibiotics, which I am not find of and never seem to help. I'm thinking of trying to find a more alternative dr.

 

[heart tree]

Oh my, you are all so chatty! I can't even pretend to catch up today. My darling girl isn't sleeping through the night at the moment and I'm shattered. And she is fond of 30 minute naps which leaves me little time to do very much.

When does it get easier? LOL!

 

[hoping:)]

Jaymes- I will totally have to remember "mommy time outs" are sometimes needed I hope alternative medicine will be a better route for you.

Amanda- It got so much easier when Penny was in her own room. I think we moved her at 4 months. Good luck!

 

[VGibs]

Ok...I may be the odd man out, I have spanked my kids. Pleas don't call the cops. I have also raised my voice and said many a very forceful NO's in my time. With Aurora I never had to say No more then once. She always understood and didn't repeat the behavior. Meme is another matter entirely. She is around a lot of kids at daycare and since she started going there she has been yelling "NO" at us and always saying "NO THAT'S MINE!" Which is a phrase that we never use in our house. She has also taken to pushing us when we won't hand over something immediately. I have only spanked her hand a few times. I grew up in a very strict home. My father was the oldest of 8 and had a lot of practice raising kids. He always believed if he was strict with us when we were young we would behave better as we grew older. He detested the "time out" theory and thought the worst thing you could do for a child was to ask them to be punished. Such as "Do you want a time out?". I had my wild times as a teen but I was always respectful and well behaved in public. My sister has raised her daughter with time out's and constantly asks her if she wants to be punished. Then she threatens her like "Ok then we aren't going to the park." if she doesn't behave how she wants. Her husband doesn't help the situation either because instead of being authoritative about discipline he always softens his tone and goes "No Peyton, we don't do that." The result...my niece is a total nightmare. She's rude, and bold. She spits, and bites. She's aggressive toward children and adults alike. She has uncontrollable tantrums where she vomits. She destroys things when she gets angry. It's horrible. The worst part is, because my sister has zero control over her she gets to a point where she completely looses it. It's a horribly viscous cycle.