Do human beings have the right to commit suicide?

[Tiff]

Yeah we're in that boat with Claire, although its her grandfather we have to try and explain about.

We won't hide it from her, but will try to figure out age appropriate ways of telling her. We'll also be telling her that you get help for things like that (FIL had a hard life, was military and thought that any sort of psychologist/psychiatrist were "quacks") rather than let it consume you.

Of course, not all things are cut and dry and what we tell our daughter wouldn't be the same thing I would want to say to someone who is suicidal... if that makes sense?

 

[mum22ttc#3]

I think that it's hard to fully make an opinion unless you've been through a suicide of a close relative or friend.

I haven't been through it fortunately but it wasn't for her lack of trying. I don't think though that makes my opinion any less valid then someone that has been through it but unfortunately the relative or close friend did succeed in their case.

 

[Menelly]

And when you've been to the doctors, you've been to the therapists, you've taken the meds, you've been to the hospitals, when you've been for all the help that exists and it STILL consumes you? What then?

I have been on enough different mental health meds that I've kept an excel spreadsheet of my meds, my reactions to them, dosages, etc. Because it would be literally impossible to remember otherwise.

My sister is on SEVEN different meds and using electroshock therapy in an attempt to try and stop her depression.

It doesn't always work.

 

[Tiff]

IMO? You keep going trying to get to the bottom of the situation.

Its not human nature to want to die. Survival is so ingrained in us its instinct, can't control it. You see reports on it every week in the news - people going above and beyond immeasurable odds to fight to stay alive.

If you don't mind my asking Menelly, what type of depression does your sister have? Electric shock therapy seems like a desperate measure to take... almost last resort? Sorry for what your family is going through.

 

[Menelly]

I'm severely bipolar. She has psychotic depression. We keep trying... but it's hard.

To be fair, I'm almost certain we both have issues because of my mom using cocaine when pregnant with us.

 

[hb1]

I haven't read every post so I'm more then Likely repeating but everyone should have the right to die when they want to especial when ill. But when someone kills themselves and their body is left for someone to find or jumps infront of a bus, train ect I think that's horrible

I agree in a sense. The thing is though whenever someone kills themselves i.e suicide there will always be a body to find by somebody else?

Euthanasia though when terminally ill IMO is totally different, nobody will just find them, it will be prepared for in a rational state of mind and alot of the time the family will be aware and even be apart of the planning.

yes, but it is selfish to make a random stranger be the cause of your death - eg jumping out in front of a train or car (and potentially taking others with you for example if car swerves to avoid you so causing a crash) why should they be involved in your suicide? Why should they live with any guilt or memories of an horrific scene?

It is selfish to let your children or someone vulnerable find your body - why would you want to put someone through that particularly your children?

 

[mum22ttc#3]

I haven't read every post so I'm more then Likely repeating but everyone should have the right to die when they want to especial when ill. But when someone kills themselves and their body is left for someone to find or jumps infront of a bus, train ect I think that's horrible

I agree in a sense. The thing is though whenever someone kills themselves i.e suicide there will always be a body to find by somebody else?

Euthanasia though when terminally ill IMO is totally different, nobody will just find them, it will be prepared for in a rational state of mind and alot of the time the family will be aware and even be apart of the planning.

yes, but it is selfish to make a random stranger be the cause of your death - eg jumping out in front of a train or car (and potentially taking others with you for example if car swerves to avoid you so causing a crash) why should they be involved in your suicide? Why should they live with any guilt or memories of an horrific scene?

It is selfish to let your children or someone vulnerable find your body - why would you want to put someone through that particularly your children?

I totally agree, its exactly what I said at the beginning of the thread. When I said I agree in a sense what I was trying to say was that I agree with having the right when your ill in cases of Euthanasia because IMO that is totally different.

But mental illness is also a illness, I'm not sure whether the PP meant that when she said that everyone had the right especially when ill but like you say someone in these cases are always going to be involved/find the body etc. Thats the part I didn't agree with. That IMO is selfish and thats why I have previously said that I do find suicide a selfish act.

I suppose it is how different people define ill, thats why I only 'agreed in a sense'.

 

[moomin_troll]

I ment ill as in dying ect not mental illness ie depression.

I no how it feels to want to die, it wasn't so long ago that I wanted to die myself but the thought of Zane got me threw that n then finding out I was pregnant well I knew I was needed so that took over for me.

Someone close to me tried to kill herself and even she thinks suicide is selfish. Putting ur death on someone else is a disgusting thing to do no matter what ur going thru. And yes when u kill itself I no theres always going to be a body to find which is awful.

It's a strange subject and there's never a clear cut answer because someone will always bring up mental illnesses when some times people kill themselves to hurt others.
I no of a woman who left her abusive husband, so to get her back he broke into her house and hung himself on her stairs do shed come home and find him....they also have children

 

[Tasha]

I believe there are other ways to cope with depression than suicide. There is a lot of help out there for those willing to take it, or maybe not so willing I.e being sectioned if there mentality is so bad for them to want to commit suicide.

Sadly I dont think that is true in a lot of people's cases. The mental health care in the UK is severely lacking, it is really sad. My husband tried for three and a half years to get help after Honey was born sleeping, he begged various doctors, told them he was suicidal, told them that he was self harming by banging his head off walls, told them that he couldnt cope, no one listened. So he placed a belt around his neck and tried to commit suicide. I found him, it was terrifying for me but the desperation in his eyes when he came round will stay with me forever. At the time I thought it was a genuine attempt on his life, but looking back (and with recent experiences) it was more a cry for help. Even with that, there was little help. They wouldnt section him, wouldnt allow voluntarily sectioning him, just a 'crisis team' who we saw for one hour all in all over the next week. Eventually he was seen at the CMHT, but as soon as the antidepressants were 'working' they discharged him saying he could self refer at any time.

A couple of weeks later Riley Rae died, he contacted the CMHT immediately but they didnt reply, he tried them a couple of times a week, every week for nine months, he went to the GP, he told them he was desperate again, that he couldnt cope, that he had a history of suicide attempts, that he was self harming again, he begged for help once more. No one listened, I rang, he rang, we went to them together, I was in turmoil, so was he. One day I went out, and then got this gut feeling, I raced home and found him hanging he was alive though, I took his weight on me and squeezed my hand in the belt to get the pressure off his neck. I managed to get the belt off and then call for help. He was so angry with me, angry that I saved him and about the fact I called for help. The police and the paramedics knew this was a genuine attempt, he was so detached and it was weird for me to be around, just because it seemed so normal to him. The hospital sent him home after about two hours. They and the GP sent urgent referals to the CMHT, that was almost two months ago and we have heard nothing despite ringing. It is probably a matter of time until he tries again, will I be so lucky as to get to him in time a third time? I dont know, but I do know he has tried (and I) have tried with everything we have to get him help.

Do I think he is selfish in his acts? No, I dont believe he is. I think he is desperate, he is detached (to me that is different from being rational because rational says to me it is perhaps a more deliberate act but it is infact that he was in a sort of bubble, almost watching over what is going on, not like he was acting it out, if that makes sense) and he sees no other way out.

His story is not unusual, in the slightest. There is a reason that suicide is the biggest killer of men under the age of 35 in the UK, and I believe them being unable to talk to people is obviously a huge part of that, but I do also believe that when they do reach out that it can quite often be dismissed by the very people who could save them

Sorry for the massive ramble for obvious reasons this is something so close to my heart

 

[Tasha]

I didnt answer the original question. I believe everyone has a right to commit suicide. And that in preventing my husband from doing so was selfish of ME, but then I think in some ways it is natural to be selfish in your wants and needs both when it comes to your own body/life and those of your loved ones.

As for euthanasia (which is what brought me to this thread any way, because I wanted to see people's opinions on this given it is the news in the UK atm), I believe that should be a right too.

 

[Nibblenic]

I dont think it was selfish to save him, its a natural reaction to protect the people you love. Jeeze what other option were you left with.

I do think the lack of help and care in this country is disgusting, maybe thats another thread.

 

[moomin_troll]

The level of mental health care really depends on the area. So yes in some areas it is disgusting and others maybe not.

In my area it's not bad and people tend to get seen quiet quickly because there's a use mental health hospital here, but even tho ur seen fast the quality of care is lacking.

I've had to go to cruz to get Zane counselling because hv, docs n my own counsellor told me there's no help for him because he's too young which is bull....
BUt yes that's another thread.

Tasha u weren't selfish for saving him, he was selfish for what he did, but bloody hell I don't blame him at all. What uve been thru is enough to send anyone over the edge x

 

[Baby France]

I don't think it can or cannot be a 'right'

A right implies it is something each person is entitled to, suicide is a bit different to that as it depends wholly on circumstances.

If you are elderly and in pain, that's understandable in my eyes

If your a single mother with two kids relying on you, that's selfish

If your an angry teenager, that's just plain stupidity

I Could go on.

I don't think 'having a right to commit suicide' is the right way to think of it.

It's about personal ethics, circumstance and situation so there is no definable answer one way or the other.

Agreed!

 

[mum22ttc#3]

I ment ill as in dying ect not mental illness ie depression.

I no how it feels to want to die, it wasn't so long ago that I wanted to die myself but the thought of Zane got me threw that n then finding out I was pregnant well I knew I was needed so that took over for me.

Someone close to me tried to kill herself and even she thinks suicide is selfish. Putting ur death on someone else is a disgusting thing to do no matter what ur going thru. And yes when u kill itself I no theres always going to be a body to find which is awful.

It's a strange subject and there's never a clear cut answer because someone will always bring up mental illnesses when some times people kill themselves to hurt others.
I no of a woman who left her abusive husband, so to get her back he broke into her house and hung himself on her stairs do shed come home and find him....they also have children

Thats the same with the person close to me who tried too. She said she obviously wasn't thinking that at the time, nor did she even consider other people when attempting to but after, once she received the help she needed and was thinking 'straight' that she could see it was a selfish thing to do.
I don't think she is a selfish person though because 95% of the time she really isn't, at that time though IMO she did attempt a selfish act.

There was a case not long ago and not far from here where somebody jumped from a bridge, a driver hit them as they fell, fortunately though the driver was OK but things could have been so different. TBH I don't see how people don't see that as selfish. I just think if that was my friend/family/kids in that car and they hadn't been so lucky how I would feel then?

 

[Tasha]

Thank you Nic and Moomin. The thing is because I took away the choice he made because of how it would left me feeling, I do believe it was a bit selfish on my behalf. I wouldnt change it nor apologise for it though. I did what felt right.

I do see where you are coming from though, because it would of caused myself and my children a lot of pain, when we have already all been through enough. But as you say moomin, it could push anyone over the edge.

Nic I totally agree care here is disgusting in some instances.

 

[moomin_troll]

I've said all along, I could live without my oh and unfortunately I'm having to even tho I've felt like not but take my kids and I'd want to die.

I no u see u saving him as selfish but no it isn't because yes u need him but what about ur children, u no what losing their dad would do so uve done what anyone would do and it was selfish of ur oh to not think of them. It's just a horrible situation for u all x

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Tasha xxxxxxx

 

[Menelly]

Tasha, I hope your husband gets someone to take him seriously and very soon. It's so hard to live in that kind of hell, and even worse when no one will help you or take you seriously.

I'll be praying for both of you. And he's a lucky man to have such an understanding wife. (((hugs)))

 

[TattiesMum]

I've not read all the responses, so I may be repeating what others have said - sorry.

I do believe that people have the right to commit suicide ... at the end of the day what other option is there but to concede that people have the right to do what they want with their bodies?

I'm not saying that it isn't hard for those left behind, or for anyone affected by witnessing a suicidal act - of course it is hugs: for all those affected) ... but at the end of the day it's impossible to prosecute people who are dead by their own hand and cruel to prosecute survivors of attempted suicide rather than offer them effective help. That's why the laws were changed in the UK to make suicide a non illegal act.

Is it selfish? Well yes it largely is, but it has to be considered as an act of desperation rather than one of rational thought and so, for me, selfish is kind of irrelevant.

I've handled the funerals of various suicides and it IS so hard on the families left behind - not just in terms of the 'sorting out' that has to be done (that happens with every death), but in terms of the guilt the families feel for not being able to have either seen it coming or to have prevented it

But in fairness I see the same guilt from families of alcoholics, addicts and people who have died while taking stupid risks/being involved in illegal activities ... all of which could also be considered selfish (and all actions which have often caused families literally years of misery even before the person died).

Life (and death) is seldom black and white sadly

 

[Ceejay123]

I guess I'm going to go against the grain... In my honest opinion, yes a human being should have the right to euthanise themselves. Somebody shouldny be forced to live if they honestly can't bare to. If you've never been in that situation you won't understand. You shouldn't force a person to survive.
I attempted suicide once at 14, now I have my LO I'm so glad it failed.. But at the time I couldn't see a way out of the misery pain and heartbreak. I went through some serious things and I couldn't see the good in humanity. I felt the world was out to get me. I would have rather died than felt like that x