Do you think CC/CIO is wrong?

[Laura2919]

going back to the topic at hand, i don't like CIO i think it's desperately sad. CC is not for me or Charlie, it just wouldn't work so i won't put either of us through it. I'm not going to judge or turn against people who do. Your babies, your parenting choices.

Sad? Lol. must give you a bad neck all that looking down on people..

Anyway back to the conversation.. Its ok for people who dont work and are SAHM's to wait until their child is ready to self settle but in reality many parents work and they need other solutions, just because you have a different outlook and you have a different way of life doesnt mean that what we choose to do is wrong

And whoever said its abuse is a tool. Sorry to say. Lol.

 

[Laura2919]

After a LOT of reading and research I believe that my natural instincts on the matter are right... CIO/CC is wrong. I know a lot of people don't like to hear that and I know there's probably no point explaining it further as it always turns into bickering, but I really and truly believe that babies cry for a reason and to ignore that is a) unnatural and b) leads to later problems.

> I think wanting to be cuddled is just important a need as needing feeding, burping, changing etc.

This thread asked for opinions, that's my opinion.

https://www.incultureparent.com/2010/12/why-african-babies-dont-cry/

So do I. They get cuddles through the day, I spend as much time as I can with my children, they get a lot of love from me. When its bedtime its bedtim and if you wish to be controlled by your child so be it. Im able to leave my children with my parents if I need to and I dont need to worry that they are going to be a nightmare for them, wanting to be picked up and cuddled all the time or getting everything they want. I agree that its important but I also think its important that boundaries are set, if my children thought they would get what they wanted cos its important they wouldnt give up until they got it so I decided to nip it in the bud earlier and save myself all this when they are throwing a tantrum in the middle of sainsburys because I wont buy them a giant peppa pig (just an example) lol. If thats the life you want good for you but its not the life I want for my children, I want independant children, that know that they can acheive things without needing me by their side 100% of the time. Not saying what your doing is wrong but I am their mother and this is what I choose for them, you are your childrens mother and you choose what you choose for them.

 

[AppleBlossom]

^^ couldn't have said it better myself. Using CC for a week or so and having a child who could be independent when they needed outweighed the constant crying, lack of sleep got both of us, and for her to be dependent on me for everything. I write and I'm also studying at the minute. I am able to do some of it in the day if Grace is playing nicely. I can also do some at night because once she's in bed, she stays there until the morning. If I hadn't used CC there is a high chance that I couldn't do these things because she would need constant company in the day and she would be up and down all night when she realised I wasn't there. Some people want clingy children, who's every need they answer and don't want to upset. And that's fine by me. I wanted my child to be independent. Obviously not completely, I'm still a mum and she still gets a lot of love and affection. But she doesn't rely on me for everything. And she doesn't. The tantrums she throws are by no means small so I could only imagine the tantrums of a child used to getting their own way.

 

[stardust599]

going back to the topic at hand, i don't like CIO i think it's desperately sad. CC is not for me or Charlie, it just wouldn't work so i won't put either of us through it. I'm not going to judge or turn against people who do. Your babies, your parenting choices.

Sad? Lol. must give you a bad neck all that looking down on people..

Anyway back to the conversation.. Its ok for people who dont work and are SAHM's to wait until their child is ready to self settle but in reality many parents work and they need other solutions, just because you have a different outlook and you have a different way of life doesnt mean that what we choose to do is wrong

And whoever said its abuse is a tool. Sorry to say. Lol.

It's not just about Mums either! I'm a SAHM (until LO 1), I don't have any other children. I can sleep whenever LO sleeps - going to bed at 7pm and napping with her during the day. So really I had all the time in the world to wait for her to self-settle, I was actually co-sleeping and enjoying it (although my OH wasn't too impressed at being booted to the sofa!!)

I did it for LO's sake. She wasn't getting any refreshing sleep, was so tired - she spent most of the day whinging and crying, rubbing her eyes, yawning etc. She was behind in development because I couldn't do anything with her all day except walk around trying to soothe my poor exhausted baby. It was my fault but she didn't know how to sleep, I put some earlier posts in saying I did anything that worked - rocking, cuddling, co-sleeping, feeding to sleep, walks, car rides, lieing her down on the couch next to me, putting her in a swing, dummy, no dummy. So she didn't have a consistent way of getting to sleep and the only time I could get her to sleep was when she was so physically exhausted she couldn't fight it anymore! Only for her to wake screaming and still exhausted at the end of a sleep cycle 40minutes later and we'd have to do it all over again. We had over 30night wakings some nights!

With CC 1 month ago the difference in 3days was amazing. She starts to scratch her ear when she's tired (yep my little weirdo) and I bring her up for a cuddle and then when she's eye rubbing and moaning a bit we go through to the nursery, change her nappy, put her sleeping bag on. Cuddle and kiss and into cot with her teddy and white noise. She chatters away to teddy for a bit then just drops off so peacefully. We did it slowly - first bedtimes which took 3 nights, night wakings which took 1 or 2 nights, then the morning nap which took about 3 days I think. If she cries I know there's something wrong. We haven't quite managed to sort the afternoon nap - it's still a fight and I can't get them timing right but only cos she caught a cold, then I had a sickness bug, then she had a sickness bug and now this week I think she's coming down with either a bug or chickenpox (my nephew has them) so it'll have to wait. The crying was minimal because we worked on only one thing at a time - say around 45mins per day. Beforehand she spent MUCH more than 45mins crying/whinging through tiredness and I'd be trying to distract her. She's much happier, more rested and less stressed now xx

 

[Laura2919]

going back to the topic at hand, i don't like CIO i think it's desperately sad. CC is not for me or Charlie, it just wouldn't work so i won't put either of us through it. I'm not going to judge or turn against people who do. Your babies, your parenting choices.

Sad? Lol. must give you a bad neck all that looking down on people..

Anyway back to the conversation.. Its ok for people who dont work and are SAHM's to wait until their child is ready to self settle but in reality many parents work and they need other solutions, just because you have a different outlook and you have a different way of life doesnt mean that what we choose to do is wrong

And whoever said its abuse is a tool. Sorry to say. Lol.

It's not just about Mums either! I'm a SAHM (until LO 1), I don't have any other children. I can sleep whenever Macy sleeps - going to bed at 7pm and napping with her during the day. So really I had all the time in the world to wait for her to self-settle, I was actually co-sleeping and enjoying it (although my OH wasn't too impressed at being booted to the sofa!!)

I did it for Macy's sake. She wasn't getting any refreshing sleep, was so tired - she spent most of the day whinging and crying, rubbing her eyes, yawning etc. She was behind in development because I couldn't do anything with her all day except walk around trying to soothe my poor exhausted baby. It was my fault but she didn't know how to sleep, I put some earlier posts in saying I did anything that worked - rocking, cuddling, co-sleeping, feeding to sleep, walks, car rides, lieing her down on the couch next to me, putting her in a swing, dummy, no dummy. So she didn't have a consistent way of getting to sleep and the only time I could get her to sleep was when she was so physically exhausted she couldn't fight it anymore! Only for her to wake screaming and still exhausted at the end of a sleep cycle 40minutes later and we'd have to do it all over again. We had over 30night wakings some nights!

With CC 1 month ago the difference in 3days was amazing. She starts to scratch her ear when she's tired (yep my little weirdo) and I bring her up for a cuddle and then when she's eye rubbing and moaning a bit we go through to the nursery, change her nappy, put her sleeping bag on. Cuddle and kiss and into cot with her teddy and white noise. She chatters away to teddy for a bit then just drops off so peacefully. We did it slowly - first bedtimes which took 3 nights, night wakings which took 1 or 2 nights, then the morning nap which took about 3 days I think. If she cries I know there's something wrong. We haven't quite managed to sort the afternoon nap - it's still a fight and I can't get them timing right but only cos she caught a cold, then I had a sickness bug, then she had a sickness bug and now this week I think she's coming down with either a bug or chickenpox (my nephew has them) so it'll have to wait. The crying was minimal because we worked on only one thing at a time - say around 45mins per day. Beforehand she spent MUCH more than 45mins crying/whinging through tiredness and I'd be trying to distract her. She's much happier, more rested and less stressed now xx

I was using it as an example

 

[pupsicle]

At bedtime if my daughter is chattering/shouting I leave her for 5 minutes before I go and sort her. I know the difference between her crying and just shouting. If she won't settle I bring her back down and we try again in 30 minutes.

 

[sjminimac]

going back to the topic at hand, i don't like CIO i think it's desperately sad. CC is not for me or Charlie, it just wouldn't work so i won't put either of us through it. I'm not going to judge or turn against people who do. Your babies, your parenting choices.

Sad? Lol. must give you a bad neck all that looking down on people..

Anyway back to the conversation.. Its ok for people who dont work and are SAHM's to wait until their child is ready to self settle but in reality many parents work and they need other solutions, just because you have a different outlook and you have a different way of life doesnt mean that what we choose to do is wrong

And whoever said its abuse is a tool. Sorry to say. Lol.

Excuse me? I think it's you who needs to wind their neck in a little bit. If you'd care to read through my previous posts on this thread you will see i'm not judgemental when it comes to this. Yes i think it's sad but i don't look down on people who use it. My very best friend used cio on both of her children. She knows how i feel about it so we just don't talk about it. It's not a deal breaker. So now who's the judgemental one?

 

[KatieB]

You see, this is exactly how I feel now. Louis is getting no quality sleep and is fractious in the day and completely overtired. I don't think PUPD will work on him tbh as he is quite a fussy spirited baby and very strong willed lol. I can see me picking him up and then putting him back down making him worse than ever. I am at the stage of not knowing what to do, everyone says to let him cry a bit in his cot and think that's what we are going to have to do. It's great that your DD is now getting the rest she needs and loves her sleep, that to me is the best gift you can give your baby - the independence to sleep and enjoy it

 

[Pixelle]

I personally wouldn't use CC/CIO. It's just not for me or my LO. I understand the majority of those that do and don't judge. It's the minority who do give it a bad name, who use it for their own sake, not that of the LO. I'm not aiming it at sleep deprived mummy's....I know most would do anything to get a decent sleep! It's those that expect their 1-2-3-4 month old to STTN.

There are a lot of defensive people in this thread! If you do CC/CIO and it's for the right reasons and you feel ok with that, why be so defensive about it?

I don't think many people have said it's abuse and wrong (again, a minority). A lot of people have said it's not for them but they wouldn't judge those that do it, for the right reasons.

I think some people need to read things how they're written, instead of reading between the lines!

 

[littlestar85]

After a LOT of reading and research I believe that my natural instincts on the matter are right... CIO/CC is wrong. I know a lot of people don't like to hear that and I know there's probably no point explaining it further as it always turns into bickering, but I really and truly believe that babies cry for a reason and to ignore that is a) unnatural and b) leads to later problems.

> I think wanting to be cuddled is just important a need as needing feeding, burping, changing etc.

This thread asked for opinions, that's my opinion.

https://www.incultureparent.com/2010/12/why-african-babies-dont-cry/

So do I. They get cuddles through the day, I spend as much time as I can with my children, they get a lot of love from me. When its bedtime its bedtim and if you wish to be controlled by your child so be it. Im able to leave my children with my parents if I need to and I dont need to worry that they are going to be a nightmare for them, wanting to be picked up and cuddled all the time or getting everything they want. I agree that its important but I also think its important that boundaries are set, if my children thought they would get what they wanted cos its important they wouldnt give up until they got it so I decided to nip it in the bud earlier and save myself all this when they are throwing a tantrum in the middle of sainsburys because I wont buy them a giant peppa pig (just an example) lol. If thats the life you want good for you but its not the life I want for my children, I want independant children, that know that they can acheive things without needing me by their side 100% of the time. Not saying what your doing is wrong but I am their mother and this is what I choose for them, you are your childrens mother and you choose what you choose for them.

If you're not saying that what mothers like myself are doing is wrong why do you need to be so patronising and assume we have controlling nightmare children who rule our lives? It's not like that at all. I don't know a single Attachment Parenting style parent with a controlling, nightmare, clingy child. If you look at cultures where babies are carried 24/7, co-sleep and breastfeed until they self wean those children grow up to be incredibly strong and independent with a great sense of compassion, community and discipline.

It's one thing giving into a child's every whim and a complete other thing responding to their needs in a way that has been natural to humans for thousands of years. I agree that boundaries should be set and I don't see how giving a child all the comfort they need is the same as your example about giving into them asking for things in shops. That's a whole other parenting issue. Like I said, my parents never sleep trained me but I was well raised and knew not to ask for things and to be grateful for what I had. I knew my parents were always there when I needed them and would always comfort me but I knew not to push certain boundaries.

I'm not telling you your children will have problems or that your parenting will cause you problems so there's not really a need for you to tell parents like me that us and our children will have problems due to the way they are raised. You are completely contradicting saying "Not saying what your doing is wrong but I am their mother and this is what I choose for them, you are your childrens mother and you choose what you choose for them" by doing that.

 

[iceylou]

perfectly said pixelle

 

[Reedy]

From the day Finley came home from the hospital he didnt sleep he would be awake for hours through the night & DH & I had to take it in turns to have some sleep.
We tried everything, & I mean everything - swaddling which he hated he likes his arms & legs out, co-sleeping he fidgeted so much none of us got any sleep, warm milk, a bath before bed, putting him bed later, rocking him, cuddling him, singing to him we even went as far to take him to see a cranial osteopath to see if he could help, it didnt.
In the end we knew that we had to accept that it was our fault, when he cried even a little murmur we were by his side & he got used to that so at 11months old we did cc & I dont care what anyone says it was the best thing we ever did, for all of us.
during those 11 months F was mardy, whingy, clingy, & just not happy & tbh neither was I because we were all so sleep deprived. DH & I would survive on 3 hours broken sleep a night & F would wake anywhere between 20-30 times a night.
I went back to work last July & knew we had to do something by then else there would be no way I could look after F & go to work on 3 hours sleep.
The first night he cried for an hour, I sat on the top of the stairs & every 5 minutes I would go in to him, cuddle him & lay him back down & walk out. after an hour he fell asleep & woke up at 7am the next day with a smile on his face & a kiss for mummy we both felt so much better x
the 2nd night he went down by himself brilliant & was asleep within 10 minutes x But he woke during the nightfor 2 hours so I did the same as the night before & he woke up at 7am the next morning a little tired from his 2 hour wake up but better x
then every night after that he went to bed at 7.30pm after a bath, pjs on some milk, stories & cuddles with mummy or daddy & woke the next day happy & smiling at 7am
He does wake in the night now maybe once or twice but I go in give him his dummy stroke his back & he's back asleep within seconds x

Now if you want to call me sad, cruel a horrible mum whatever for making my son a happier child then so be it. I did what i had to & I dont regret a thing as I know my son is loved sooooo much x
Those that disagree so much that your pretty much putting down those mothers that did feel they had to do it, to me is sad. Dont judge someones choices until you've spent a day in thier shoes.
I didnt make this choice lightly, I didnt do it for the fun of it I did it so my little boy was happier & it worked x My little boy is so much happier than he was this time last year.
F goes to bed at 7.30pm & I'm downstairs by 7.45pm & my night is mine then to chill out & do what i want to do/watch on the tv x
My little boy is cuddled, played with, kissed & loved unconditionally & if some people think that because I made the choice I did that I abused him :crazy: I was cruel to him or whatever then thats fine, But tell me this - Does the child in my avatar look like a child thats been abused, distressed, mentally scarred???? No, didnt think so!!

 

[Reedy]

.

 

[AppleBlossom]

If people who use CC/CIO think they're doing the right thing then why do they feel the need to be so defensive?

I'll tell you why. Because something they do/have done with their child is being referred to as wrong, cruel, neglectful, even abusive. I daresay that if somebody said those things about something YOU did, whatever that may be, you would damn right defend yourself even if you know you were in the right.

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I agree with appleblossom it's not that parebts that CC are defensive because they arn't happy with their desiscion. They are defensive because people throw the word neglect around very loosley. In my line of work I have seen emotional neglect and believe me it hurts that someone would associate me with that kind of neglect just because I chose to CC. Neglect is an awful thing and this term should not be used unless it is warranted. I don't think using CC warrents it x

 

[sjminimac]

i don't think it's neglectful or abuse or any of the above words. Never once have i said that but i still get told i'm looking down on people because i've said i don't like it and it's not for me. Let me share something. I've had a traumatic morning. My baby had a settling in session at nursery this morning, i'm due back at work full time in 2 weeks. No choice. So i left him for 30 mins, he's a secure happy sociable baby, but after 15 mins another baby pinched his dodie and because he's teething it sent him sideways and he cried hysterically until i got there to pick him up. He got so upset he was almost sick. It's awful, i'm devastated that it didn't go well and for a baby who doesn't cry to cry that much must have been frightening and confusing and sad for him. Next week i leave him for 45 minutes. On 1st august i leave him 7.30-5.30. He will cry. Probably till he's sick. He'll be scared. He won't understand why his mummy isn't coming to him. He'll sleep at some point because he's knackered from crying so much. I HAVE NO CHOICE. It's breaking my heart, literally like a physical pain. So why would i let him get like this at night, on his own, in a dark room? I'm not going to apologise for my views. Controlled crying is slightly different, still not for us but it isn't the same. All i think when i think of cry it out is if i was upset and someone i needed comfort from turned their back on me and walked out how would i feel?

 

[littlestar85]

i don't think it's neglectful or abuse or any of the above words. Never once have i said that but i still get told i'm looking down on people because i've said i don't like it and it's not for me. Let me share something. I've had a traumatic morning. My baby had a settling in session at nursery this morning, i'm due back at work full time in 2 weeks. No choice. So i left him for 30 mins, he's a secure happy sociable baby, but after 15 mins another baby pinched his dodie and because he's teething it sent him sideways and he cried hysterically until i got there to pick him up. He got so upset he was almost sick. It's awful, i'm devastated that it didn't go well and for a baby who doesn't cry to cry that much must have been frightening and confusing and sad for him. Next week i leave him for 45 minutes. On 1st august i leave him 7.30-5.30. He will cry. Probably till he's sick. He'll be scared. He won't understand why his mummy isn't coming to him. He'll sleep at some point because he's knackered from crying so much. I HAVE NO CHOICE. It's breaking my heart, literally like a physical pain. So why would i let him get like this at night, on his own, in a dark room? I'm not going to apologise for my views. Controlled crying is slightly different, still not for us but it isn't the same. All i think when i think of cry it out is if i was upset and someone i needed comfort from turned their back on me and walked out how would i feel?

 

[KittyVentura]

i don't think it's neglectful or abuse or any of the above words. Never once have i said that but i still get told i'm looking down on people because i've said i don't like it and it's not for me. Let me share something. I've had a traumatic morning. My baby had a settling in session at nursery this morning, i'm due back at work full time in 2 weeks. No choice. So i left him for 30 mins, he's a secure happy sociable baby, but after 15 mins another baby pinched his dodie and because he's teething it sent him sideways and he cried hysterically until i got there to pick him up. He got so upset he was almost sick. It's awful, i'm devastated that it didn't go well and for a baby who doesn't cry to cry that much must have been frightening and confusing and sad for him. Next week i leave him for 45 minutes. On 1st august i leave him 7.30-5.30. He will cry. Probably till he's sick. He'll be scared. He won't understand why his mummy isn't coming to him. He'll sleep at some point because he's knackered from crying so much. I HAVE NO CHOICE. It's breaking my heart, literally like a physical pain. So why would i let him get like this at night, on his own, in a dark room? I'm not going to apologise for my views. Controlled crying is slightly different, still not for us but it isn't the same. All i think when i think of cry it out is if i was upset and someone i needed comfort from turned their back on me and walked out how would i feel?

Oh SJ I have no experience but I am sure Charlie will get better with his nursery. I hate to htink of you so upset Loveage xxxxx

 

[sjminimac]

thanks ladies. I need all the hugs i can get right now xx

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

i don't think it's neglectful or abuse or any of the above words. Never once have i said that but i still get told i'm looking down on people because i've said i don't like it and it's not for me. Let me share something. I've had a traumatic morning. My baby had a settling in session at nursery this morning, i'm due back at work full time in 2 weeks. No choice. So i left him for 30 mins, he's a secure happy sociable baby, but after 15 mins another baby pinched his dodie and because he's teething it sent him sideways and he cried hysterically until i got there to pick him up. He got so upset he was almost sick. It's awful, i'm devastated that it didn't go well and for a baby who doesn't cry to cry that much must have been frightening and confusing and sad for him. Next week i leave him for 45 minutes. On 1st august i leave him 7.30-5.30. He will cry. Probably till he's sick. He'll be scared. He won't understand why his mummy isn't coming to him. He'll sleep at some point because he's knackered from crying so much. I HAVE NO CHOICE. It's breaking my heart, literally like a physical pain. So why would i let him get like this at night, on his own, in a dark room? I'm not going to apologise for my views. Controlled crying is slightly different, still not for us but it isn't the same. All i think when i think of cry it out is if i was upset and someone i needed comfort from turned their back on me and walked out how would i feel?

hugs: The point is every child is different not every child likes being rocked as they become older, they prefer their own space. Other children like your LO have to have contact with mummy to be settled. It doesn't mean either of them area wrong in the way they are acting it's just their individual preferance. I would have loved to continue to rock Aidan to sleep, I could have ignore his attempts to escape my arms for hours( I mean hours, he would not settle at all). But that would have been for my benefit not his. As soon as he was in that cot he calmed and settled within 20 mins with me coming in every five minutes.
Aidan used to LOVE being rocked when he was a very young baby. I would enjoy rocking and singing to him, it was a great bonding experiance for both of us. Although when he hit 6/7 months he HATED being rocked he would scream harder when I picked him up and his body would rack with Sob's. I talked to my HV and she suggested CC. For the first time he actually fell asleep without screaming, when I placed him in his cot he just winged, never cried or screamed. I would go in at short regular intervals, talk to him, and then leave. He never screamed, sobbed, or even cried. People seem to think CC is leaving a baby to scream for a certain time it isn't. Well for me it wasn't, he was screamed when I rocked him instead. Of course when he was unwell I never even left him to winge and thats the only time he would allow me to rock him to sleep. He loves cuddles now but still likes to take him self off to bed. The other night he had a night terror, I brought him into my bed and soothed him. As soon as he had clamed down he asked to go back to his bed, he just likes to be left alone when he wants to sleep and that's his individual choice and need

ETA: Aidan became very upset when he first went to nursery. They soon settle hun and they have the time of their lives. He now comes home, chatty and excited to tell me about his day xx