Do you think CC/CIO is wrong?

[Lydiarose]

CIO yes CC no not at all,not the same IMO.

 

[brunette&bubs]

Ok I admit my comment was a little harsh but OP was asking for opinions and I gave mine.

Don't like it? That's up to you

I was asking for opinions not insults, and i think saying we treat our children like dogs if we CC/CIO is very insulting.

 

[Lena]

IMO, CIO is a form of neglect. CC I don't agree with either and would never do but it's the lesser of two evils.

 

[TennisGal]

We did Sleep Sense - same as Cattia - when dd was five and a bit months. Desperation had set in, as Lizzie would only sleep on me or dh and we were utterly terrified we would have an accident with her, such was our level of fatigue. Basically, staying up all night! We didn't leave Lizzie to cry, we sat with her...stroked her head, comforted her, talked to her. Stayed the whole time, and her cries were more pure frustration at learning to settle than being without us...as we were right there! She quickly learned, and all three of is were transformed. We all were more full of life and energy to enjoy things. As a bf baby, we didn't expect Lizzie to sleep through...and little lady woke for feeds several times a night for ages, never an issue....and she could then settle afterwards.

So, I couldn't do CIO...but to call all sleep training in such horrendous terms is wrong, IMO. You have no idea of different circumstances. I hadn't had more than three hours sleep a night, and was falling asleep with Lizzie on me. As a heavy sleeper, I was in tears that we'd have an accident.

Sleep Sense gave us all the opportunity to get some...not full night...sleep without little lady feeling abandoned, and us in bits. I'd recommend it.

 

[aliss]

My son is a person, a human being and deserves to be treated with the respect and dignity that I would treat any other person that I loved deeply. [/url]

I don't think by sleep training that I am not treating my son with respect or dignity.
don't we have to "train" our kids to do all other things in life? including sleep?

I would never do it or advise anyone to do any sort of sleep training. We are raising children, not dogs.

For anyone who is interested have a look here
https://www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/search/label/Sleep

Wow that was really offensive. I'm not treating my son like a dog. If I were I would put a collar on him and leave him in the backyard to cry
RUDE

Agreed. Even if somebody doesn't agree with it, it isn't right to pass judgement in such a rude manner

Right, you can explain your reasonings without insulting someone else

Think I might re-name my LO Spot and get her a kennel and run. Maybe a bone will keep her quiet even longer??? Hmmmmm ;-)

Sadly yes, she will enjoy a bone. I caught mine sucking on the dog's chewbone the other day And he loooooved it Mm, salty.

 

[brunette&bubs]

My son is a person, a human being and deserves to be treated with the respect and dignity that I would treat any other person that I loved deeply. [/url]

I don't think by sleep training that I am not treating my son with respect or dignity.
don't we have to "train" our kids to do all other things in life? including sleep?

I would never do it or advise anyone to do any sort of sleep training. We are raising children, not dogs.

For anyone who is interested have a look here
https://www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/search/label/Sleep

Wow that was really offensive. I'm not treating my son like a dog. If I were I would put a collar on him and leave him in the backyard to cry
RUDE

Agreed. Even if somebody doesn't agree with it, it isn't right to pass judgement in such a rude manner

Right, you can explain your reasonings without insulting someone else

Think I might re-name my LO Spot and get her a kennel and run. Maybe a bone will keep her quiet even longer??? Hmmmmm ;-)

Sadly yes, she will enjoy a bone. I caught mine sucking on the dog's chewbone the other day And he loooooved it Mm, salty.

i honestly wouldnt be surprised if in a couple months time LO is eating out of the dog bowl and chewing on dog bones...he is so fascinated with the dog lately.
Yesterday he picked up the bone and tried licking it.......

 

[Lena]

^We don't have a dog but I have on occasion caught LO with his hand in the catfood dish. . He also loves playing in the cats water dish.

 

[bumpy_j]

I have never been in a situation where I'd need to do it, so no I don't think i'm entitled to think that it's wrong yet - until I have a very unsettled, older baby I will then form an opinion depending on whether the alternatives work for us.

 

[LittleBoo]

Jesus. Didn't realize just how many nasty, judgmental people are on the forum.

Treated like dogs? Neglect? Hmm. Up ones arse much?

 

[Lena]

^Use the ignore function then. This is a thread asking for everyone's opinions and that is my opinion.

 

[Lightworker]

I agree with Kota really. I tend to put myself in my children's shoes and see how I would feel, and then act based on that. As a mom whose DD1 never STTN until 2 yrs and and LO who doesn't (and nurses frequently), I still believe it is negative to allow a child to cry. I believe just like crawling, walking etc, STTN will come when she is ready. IMO the need to be cuddled, rocked, nursed to sleep is as legitimate a need as hunger.
Babyjiva- I like your sig.

 

[special_kala]

If you were to leave a old person in your care alone in a dark room where they couldnt get out and couldnt communicate their needs and they were crying would that not be neglect? Why is it different for babies? Because they need to learn how to self settle?

 

[KittyVentura]

I don't see it as "wrong" no.

I think it is very negative when used on a young baby. If a parent feels it is appropriate for their child and their own situation when their baby is older (4-6 months+) then I think it can be a useful and effective approach to sleep training.

I was lucky that it was something I never had to consider. I was blessed with a baby that self settled and STTN from 8 weeks (has only had 1 night waking requiring attention since... He's had a couple of early morning wake ups where he's happily chattered to himself and then gone back off etc). I know that this was luck of the draw really. I think I would have considered using it if he was still waking several times a night now... but I can't say for certain as I was never faced with that situation.

It would be lovely if every mother felt strong enough to handle night wakings with an older baby and CIO never had to be considered. REality is different though and everyone has different factors to take into account. E.G Someone that worked a full time job that may be dangerous when sleep deprived may have to take a course of action that a SAHM might not choose to. However, regardless of our situations, we all "break" at different levels. Just as some have diferent pain thresholds and may be more tolerant of different things, some people may deal with sleep deprivation better than others.

What makes me very very angry and upset is that this is a topic that mothers get judged harshly on by others. Even though I have never had to use CC/CIO I find it very hard to read threads (I've not read any replies at all on this post so please no-one take offence, this isn't aimed at this thread and it's replies) where mothers are seemingly put down for considering or choosing to use this parenting approach. Yes, we all baulk when we read about CIO being considered for a newborn etc and normally good, gentle advice is given to encourage the mother not to do this. But when other mothers with older babies say they have done CIO/CC... those are the threads where I see this type of judgement which really isn't fair.

It's all well and good to have opinions. We all see things differently and have things we feel strongly about (I'm a fighter for MIL rights, pro baby wearing, anti Bjorns etc etc). We're all going to read things and think "Crikey, I'd NEVER do that", but until we've walked a mile in the other parent's shoes we have no idea what parenting is like for them and why they choose to parent as they do. Judgement just isn't necessary. I'd never look down on a Mum for doing something that I wouldn't do myself.

Sorry, tangent. I am good at tangents. Also I might have been exposed to too much sun today.

xxx

 

[tallybee]

Not read through all the posts so forgive me if I am repeating, just want to say how I feel

All babies/children are different and so are all parents. Leaving mine to cry was never an option, my son was never happy as a baby unless he was clinging to me - so he always was. There was only me, so it was an incredibly tiring, draining, exhausting way to be. I had people saying to me wouldn't it be easier to let him cry it out, but I just couldn't have even tried it. The pull of him needing me was just too great, as soon as I put him down he started crying. This went on until he was able to toddle about on his own pretty much, and he is now the most independent child - has been since he found that in himself aged 1 and a bit when he could toddle and interact with things more.

My daughter on the other hand was happy to lie and look around the room from birth until she could get up and about and do stuff. She is also now the most independent and confident child.

I suppose what I'm saying is that cc/cio never suited me or my babies. I don't judge others though. Some people might find that their LO (not newborn obviously!) responds to it and that's fine. I do feel though that a baby crying is such a biologically tuned sound that it must take some strength to not just go to them every time!

It's different if parents are just leaving them for selfish reasons but good luck and well done to all caring parents who find ways of parenting that works for their family is all I can say really

 

[TennisGal]

Out of interest, those who vehemently oppose CIO and CC, do you feel the same about all forms of sleep training at any age? As I don't - personally- agree with cio or cc for us personally, but sleep sense worked perfectly when we all felt ready.

Also, do you not think it's safer to do some form of sleep training at a certain point as opposed to running the risk of having an accident? I stopped driving, as I was so tired all the time, and was so scared what would happen behind the wheel! Never mind dropping my darling daughter, falling asleep with her, issues with my milk etc.

Also, final question (!), do you not think there is some benefit to having some rest to
just enjoy groups, life etc with lo? To have real quality time, as opposed to a functioning zombie?

As I previously said, we weren't looking for sttn...and had no chance with our guzzler...we just needed more than three hours!

 

[Natasha2605]

As a last resort I don't think they are wrong, as a first resort I do think they are wrong.

We do CC when Summer is being difficult at bedtime.

I wouldn't do either until at least ten months when the baby is old enough to understand bedtime etc. Summer at 13 months chances her luck at bedtime but only with me. If my OH puts her down she goes straight to sleep after drinking her milk. If I put her down she can spend up to forty five minutes moaning, shouting, throwing things out the cot, pouring her milk about herself, hitting her head off the cot etc etc. All because she wants back out the cot because I have put her to bed. When a child is old enough to distinguish what type of behaviour to use depending on what parent is putting them down then IMO there is nothing wrong with sleep training.

I'm the soft touch and Summer knows it, it's as simple as that. So yes, we do use CC but not CIO. After nine or ten months I don't think there's anything wrong with CC. CIO I don't agree with on a personal level, I wouldn't like to be left alone to cry for whatever reason.

 

[aliss]

Out of interest, those who vehemently oppose CIO and CC, do you feel the same about all forms of sleep training at any age? As I don't - personally- agree with cio or cc for us personally, but sleep sense worked perfectly when we all felt ready.

Also, do you not think it's safer to do some form of sleep training at a certain point as opposed to running the risk of having an accident? I stopped driving, as I was so tired all the time, and was so scared what would happen behind the wheel! Never mind dropping my darling daughter, falling asleep with her, issues with my milk etc.

Also, final question (!), do you not think there is some benefit to having some rest to
just enjoy groups, life etc with lo? To have real quality time, as opposed to a functioning zombie?

As I previously said, we weren't looking for sttn...and had no chance with our guzzler...we just needed more than three hours!

I'm not vehemently opposed myself, although I don't like it and won't do it, but TBH those who are very 'rigid' on the issue would respond "you signed up for it, deal with it".

I don't think CC or CIO is ever the first step. PUPD, and even Elizabeth Pantley's no cry solution should be the first steps, IMO, but few people know of it. They ask around, they are told to do CC/CIO, and that's what most people do. BnB is quite anti-CC/CIO - I also belong to a French parenting forum although I never post, and they would be the first to suggest CC/CIO. It's normal in this culture.

 

[TennisGal]

That's why we were so pleased to find sleep sense, something that could help without us leaving Lizzie's side...all involved were comforted. I was told by a gp that it was my own fault for getting lizzie used to sleeping only on me or dh, and to do cc or CIO...but we just couldn't...not for us personally.

 

[KittyVentura]

Sometimes I have issues sleeping myself. Mostly when Ian is away. I have trouble sleeping alone in bed and end up staying up til like 2-3am because I have to wait til I am literally dead on my feet before I go up to bed else I can't sleep at all.

Anyway. Whenever I've had a night (or nights) like that I am useless the next day. I find it hard to concentrate and to function properly.

I figure that it MUST be the same for babies. Maybe not exactly the same but they must also find it harder to do things when they are also sleep deprived. It makes sense, without proper rest you will not have full energy the following day.

Now with that in mind, I think that there MUST be a benefit to the child from sleep training as well. Of course it won't be pleasant at the time when the child is crying it out, but if they do learn to slef settle and then get more sleep in future nights as a result. Surely that is a benefit to the child that is gained from CIO/CC that cannot just be ignored?

Of course I'm not saying that children that do not sleep as well at night are going to dothings slower or find things harder... but I do believe that most would find things easier IF they slept for longer chunks at night and slept more. For me that isn;t enough to warrant CC/CIO... but for some it might be.

Just another way to look at it as I think a lot see it as a selfish thing done only for the parent, however a child that 3 days later is getting 12 hrs sleep compared to 4 (just an example), is going to be a lot happier overall than when they were sleep deprived... surely?

xx

 

[sjminimac]

i have always said that i'm not anti cio, i'm just anti cio for us. I get sleep deprived. I've been close to breaking point. Some of the girls on here know the full extent of my sadness/stress/desperation. Having said that, i've always told myself (and my husband, repeatedly) that this is such a short amount of time and charlie will eventually realise that he likes sleep as much as his mummy and i really do view cio as desperately sad. I have 2 very close friends however who have both used cio on their little ones, and because it breaks my heart and we know each others feelings on the topic we just don't talk about it I know they think it's my own fault i'm so tired cos i won't leave him in a dark room alone and scared, to cry until he gives up and goes to sleep (not going to apologise, that's what cio IS) and i think it's sad that their babies went through that. Not a deal breaker when it comes to ous strong friendships because we respect each other as mummies. I also ebf, one combi feeds and the other ff! Couldn't be more different