Do you think CC/CIO is wrong?

[Natsku]

How does sleep sense work?

Maria seems to be the same in the day whether she woke once in the night or 5 times. I guess she just doesn't care about sleep

 

[TennisGal]

You basically stay with your littlie while they settle...we stroked L's hair and head, whispered to her, sang, held hands...we didn't do much pupd, as she has always hated that...but we were right beside her. There were some tears, but they weren't her sad tears...they were more out of frustration at sleeping somewhere other than me or dh. Every night, you move a little further from the cot-but we found that wasn't hugely necessary.

Hugely reassured us, as we were all there together, and Lizzie knew she wasnt on her own.

There's a great support group for sleep sense on here, and I can always send more info

 

[Mrs Mayhem]

I have been lucky in that we have never yet needed to consider using CC/CIO. In principle I am against it as a practice. I am definitely against it in a very young baby, but I know a couple whose baby is 18 months old and has never slept through a single night. They have seen medical professionals, experts etc and have now been recommended to try CC. It breaks their heart every night and so far, it's not working, but they live in hope.

My LO STTN from being 5 weeks old. I am extremely lucky. There have been occasional nights inbetween, especially during teething times where she has woken once or twice but has soon settled again. Last night was a horror, she is teething and I suspect also had an upset tummy and I was up and down with her literally all night. She cried, I cried and it broke my heart, but I could NOT leave her. I stayed with her all night, cuddled her when she required, fed her when she needed, comforted and looked after her. I see it as being part of my role as her mummy to do so.

I'm waffling, sorry. I guess my point is that I don't like it, but can understand why some families do it and would never lay into anyone for it.

 

[stardust599]

Sometimes I have issues sleeping myself. Mostly when Ian is away. I have trouble sleeping alone in bed and end up staying up til like 2-3am because I have to wait til I am literally dead on my feet before I go up to bed else I can't sleep at all.

Anyway. Whenever I've had a night (or nights) like that I am useless the next day. I find it hard to concentrate and to function properly.

I figure that it MUST be the same for babies. Maybe not exactly the same but they must also find it harder to do things when they are also sleep deprived. It makes sense, without proper rest you will not have full energy the following day.

Now with that in mind, I think that there MUST be a benefit to the child from sleep training as well. Of course it won't be pleasant at the time when the child is crying it out, but if they do learn to slef settle and then get more sleep in future nights as a result. Surely that is a benefit to the child that is gained from CIO/CC that cannot just be ignored?

Of course I'm not saying that children that do not sleep as well at night are going to dothings slower or find things harder... but I do believe that most would find things easier IF they slept for longer chunks at night and slept more. For me that isn;t enough to warrant CC/CIO... but for some it might be.

Just another way to look at it as I think a lot see it as a selfish thing done only for the parent, however a child that 3 days later is getting 12 hrs sleep compared to 4 (just an example), is going to be a lot happier overall than when they were sleep deprived... surely?

xx

This is exactly the reason I did CC. I'm a SAHM, I cope well with sleep deprivation - when my LO naps I can put my head down and be asleep within seconds. My OH helps out millions around the house and I don't have any other children so sleep didn't matter to me.

But my poor LO was not getting the sleep she needed and was cranky, upset and clingy all day. Not because that's her personality but because she wasn't getting the restful sleep she needed. She had no chance to plan and have fun, to learn new things, to relax with me etc. as she was always so exhausted and frazzled. Her development was behind as we could never do normal baby things as she was so tired 24/7.

I don't think that CC should be the first option for a baby/toddler/child who doesn't sleep well but IMO sleep is an absolutely vital health requirement and to deny your child the chance to learn to have good quality refreshing sleep is wrong. I think that those LO's who absolutely cannot sleep well should have some form of "sleep training" even though I do think that the gentler, less stressful methods should always be tried first. I'm not saying that those who are against CC are denying their LOs sleep as I know most will have found something that works and therefore their LOs are getting the sleep they need even if the parents are a bit sleep deprived.

But, I think someone with an 18month old who still wakes 6-10 times a night and doesn't nap posted in another thread. The poster was absolutely rigid on the fact that they would never do any form of sleep training. IMO that's crueler than sleep training when LO is ready at 6-12months of age. The poor toddler must be exhausted and drained and each sleep time must be stressful and upsetting for the LO. IMO the chronic stress of sleep deprivation is worse for that child than the short-term stress of sleep training at a younger age would have been. Obviously if the parent decided to do sleep training at the older age it would take longer and be more stressful for the child. The poor sleep habits will most likely be carried on throughout life.

If the parents feel extremely sleep deprived think how bad the LO involved feels too.

We all need sleep and I would be very angry if I had a lifetime of sleeping problems because my parents refused to help or encourage me into good sleep habits.

xx

 

[jackiea85]

The reason we started CC with Joseph was because he was getting so stroppy the next day through lack of sleep and he would just make excuses not to go to bed, like constantly asking for toys that he suddenly NEEDED in his bed! In the end we would literally leave him to it for 5 mins, put him back in his bed, give him a hug and walk out again. If he is upset I would never leave him to cry, it is just when he is trying to stay up later. Even now he gets into our bed in the middle of the night and this doesn't bother us, and if he is ill or scared then we let him in our bed too. But him not sleeping properly was really affecting his behaviour x

 

[Lightworker]

Stardust - I was just wondering when you said "..the sleep problems will most likely be carried into adulthood" , are you basing that on research or is it just an individual speculation?

 

[Natsku]

You basically stay with your littlie while they settle...we stroked L's hair and head, whispered to her, sang, held hands...we didn't do much pupd, as she has always hated that...but we were right beside her. There were some tears, but they weren't her sad tears...they were more out of frustration at sleeping somewhere other than me or dh. Every night, you move a little further from the cot-but we found that wasn't hugely necessary.

Hugely reassured us, as we were all there together, and Lizzie knew she wasnt on her own.

There's a great support group for sleep sense on here, and I can always send more info

That sounds pretty much like what we do as picking her up always frustrates her more so I try and calm her in her bed/pram. Though she usually settles fine at night its more the naps where its a problem. Can you link me to the support group please and I would love some more info.

 

[TennisGal]

https://www.babyandbump.com/parenting-groups/290931-sleep-sense-support-group.html

Here you go!! Naps were always our thing, too...and to be honest, there are still maany times we nap together!

 

[Natsku]

Cheers. Most of the time she won't even nap with me gah

 

[TennisGal]

OT: love your sig picture, she looks so much fun!

 

[Natsku]

Ah thanks, she is great fun!

 

[Kota]

My son is a person, a human being and deserves to be treated with the respect and dignity that I would treat any other person that I loved deeply. [/url]

I don't think by sleep training that I am not treating my son with respect or dignity.
don't we have to "train" our kids to do all other things in life? including sleep?

No actually, I don't 'train' my son to do anything, He does it all in his own time, at his own pace, I haven't trained him to crawl, or walk, or talk, or use a spoon and fork, or climb, or put blocks in the right hole in his toys.

What I HAVE done, is show positive examples of how to do all these things, and when he's shown me that he's developmentally ready for the next stage, I've given him the tools to do that and encouraged him to do that.
I didn't FORCE him to walk, just like I won't FORCE him to STTN before he is mentally/physically and emotionally ready to.

 

[Lightworker]

I feel compelled to add (moreso as it has been implied on here) that if your child does not STTN by a certain age, does not mean they will suffer developmental drawbacks. Studies have been carried out on primarily BFing, co-sleeping communities where night nursing is still the norm, and some of these communities have the most physically agile, intelligent people - the Japanese (also Africans, Laos, South America.) None of these communities show developmental drawbacks. Just FYI and for the sake of accuracy.

 

[Natsku]

I do wonder if it does affect how you sleep as an adult though. It always takes me a long time to fall asleep as I find it really difficult to settle. When I see my mum later this month I'm going to ask her how I slept as a baby and how she settled me.

 

[KatelynsMummy]

I do wonder if it does affect how you sleep as an adult though. It always takes me a long time to fall asleep as I find it really difficult to settle. When I see my mum later this month I'm going to ask her how I slept as a baby and how she settled me.

My mum did the PU/PD method and I have no trouble settling my brother though, being her first, she was unsure and did CC, he is still at 27 years old, a horrible sleeper, he cannot settle until stupid hours in the morning and things have to be so quiet as he is such a light sleeper... Never thought of connecting the 2 from babies to adulthood!

 

[Natsku]

I do wonder if it does affect how you sleep as an adult though. It always takes me a long time to fall asleep as I find it really difficult to settle. When I see my mum later this month I'm going to ask her how I slept as a baby and how she settled me.

My mum did the PU/PD method and I have no trouble settling my brother though, being her first, she was unsure and did CC, he is still at 27 years old, a horrible sleeper, he cannot settle until stupid hours in the morning and things have to be so quiet as he is such a light sleeper... Never thought of connecting the 2 from babies to adulthood!

Interesting. I think my brother has the same trouble as me so I'll also ask mum if she did the same with me and my brother.

 

[TennisGal]

I am not sure many expect their babies to actually sttn though, do they? I was still bf-ing Lizzie a few times a night right up until she chose to stop.

Also, as regards co-sleeping, I am sure if we had gone down this road, we would have found sleeping a lot easier...but we knew that for us it was too risky. We both sleep like logs, and move around everywhere.

Natsku: I fall asleep in seconds, and apparently nothing has changed since I was a baby!

 

[Lightworker]

Apparently in Western society STTN is a very real expectation. HVs have been trained to advise moms that all LOs should STTN by 6 months. Re co-sleeping and sleeping like a log lol, for nursing moms, they have a hormone that prevents them from experiencing the deepest sleep cycle so they are generally very alert, even in sleep.

 

[moomin_troll]

i think letting a child cry has its place.
up until zane was 5 months i never left him to cry, i always thought he was too young and he was crying because he needed me so i never understood why mothers would let their child cry.

one day when my oh had gone away for a month zane was just over 5 months, i was tired, stressed and zane was crying his eyes out. nothing i could do was helping him and i knew he was tired.
i put him on his play mat and left the room so i could have a second to calm down and go back....well i went back and he had gone to sleep within 1 minute.

id perfer a parent left the child in a safe place to cry rather then getting angry, frustrated.

now zanes older if hes having a screaming/crying fit and wont let me help him i sit him on the sofa to calm down

 

[Natsku]

The nurse told me that Maria should STTN now but she defined that as sleeping 5 hours which she does do now (when I saw the nurse last she was waking every 2 hours at least so thats why she commented on it)