Doula's & Birth Partners....

[Mervs Mum]

I've bee boycotting them for years after their shenanigans with formula in underdeveloped countries....

 

[Elski]

When I was training to be a MW, they used to offer a couple of grand to one student MW every year to keep a journal to go on their website (we only got a bursary of £6K a year to train so were all skint and they obviously knew this). It was basically their way of trying to get a way in with trainee MW's and get them to encourage formula use. I wonder if they still do this....

 

[Blob]

Wow thats crazy

 

[BabyHaines]

That's outrageous!!
Bloody criminal

 

[ryder]

Here most doctors and HV's support weaning from 4-6 months. Any product I have seen on the shelves either says "beginner" or 6 months plus. Every baby and situation is different, no one should feel pressured to wean earlier, but some babies are perfectly developed and ready to wean at 4 months... some not until later.

I think that as mothers we all have working brains and can determine whats right for us and our baby. No matter what parenting choice it is.

And BTW, I dont use nestles either lol, I prefer beechnut products or making my own babyfood

 

[ryder]

whats the deal with the underdeveloped countries? Formula is expensive, im not sure how people would be paying for them in 3rd world countries? Or was it donated to them? I don't know, there are lots of orphanages and mothers who die there... so I have a hard time believing sending formula there as a donation would hardly be bad?

Sorry, I am not trying to get into a debate about it. But I've seen it mentioned a few times on this site... And im having a hard time making an opinion on the situation without the right info.

One of my co-workers went to south-east asia for 6 weeks to donate her time and medical help to some shelters and orphanages and the state of where she was was appalling.

 

[Elski]

I think there were a few problems with it... formula has to be mixed with water and often in developing countries, water is contaminated with all sorts which lead to some very ill, possibly even dead babies. Also, as BM contains lots of antibodies, the babies were losing out on getting these antibodies and in countries where disease is rife, they weren't getting the vital protection they needed. Lastly, formula costs money. They gave free samples out, which lead to mothers BM supply to dry up and thus causing a situation where they had no way to feed their babies as they couldn't afford formula. I'm sure I've got a paper written on it all from back in the 70's... I'll see if I can dig it out....

 

[ryder]

Ya I suppose the water would be an issue... Except in the area's which have been fortunate enough to be given well's with clean water.

But all of the disease in the water are community diseases people have there anyways... at least in the area where my co-worker was. Pretty much everyone was infected with HIV and various other gastric diseases, STD's and other infections which could be passed on nursing or in utero.

The orphan rate is also extremely high there due to mothers not only dying of HIV, but also many women sell their babies there, or babies/children are taken to console debts. The area where she was was probably one of the worst. The orphanage was alot of rescued babies/children from sold babies or prostitution. And yes, infants were sold into prostitution.

I think it is a hard situation to really be able to say anything either way about.

 

[BabyHaines]

whats the deal with the underdeveloped countries? Formula is expensive, im not sure how people would be paying for them in 3rd world countries? Or was it donated to them? I don't know, there are lots of orphanages and mothers who die there... so I have a hard time believing sending formula there as a donation would hardly be bad?

Sorry, I am not trying to get into a debate about it. But I've seen it mentioned a few times on this site... And im having a hard time making an opinion on the situation without the right info.

One of my co-workers went to south-east asia for 6 weeks to donate her time and medical help to some shelters and orphanages and the state of where she was was appalling.

Basically, way back in the 70's, Nestle employed women to hand out free formula to new mums in India, Africa and Asia. They dressed the women in uniform similar to that of western nurses and made sure the mums got enough formula to feed the babies until their breast milk dried up (the new mums believing it's what all western women do, so they should follow suit if they wanted what's best for their babies). The mums were then trapped with starving newborns, and no way to feed them, so they would end up having to buy a tin of formula (some areas it costs several months wages) and they would have to mix up weaker versions with dirty water in very unsanitary conditions.)
The result? Thousands and thousands of unessercary infant deaths through starvation and infection. Why? So Nestle could line their pockets (I want to insert a 5 letter word here, but shall refrain....) :'(
The boycott is still ongoing, although it has changed slighty to now include
lobbying against their poor labelling of baby food products & to stop them discouraging breastfeeding. (They break just about every W.H.O code their is).
In short, they are lying, deceitful, murdering b*stards whose company should be shut down, but of course, never will be (unless we all vote with our purses of course??)
HTH explain a little bit more xxxx

 

[ryder]

Oh I see, well yes that situation definately is not right at all... I wouldn't condone that in any way.

And that is definately alot different then just donating it to places that might actually need it.

 

[BabyHaines]

Oh, and as regards the 4 month weaning, yes every baby is different, but it is against the WHA resolution 54.2 to actively state that babies under 6 months should a) have reduced amounts of breastmilk in favour of solids and b) that any food can fully replicate the nutrition found in breastmilk. Thus meaning companies should not advertise foods for under 6 months of age.

Yes, you've guessed it....Nestle does!! Of course they think it's fine

Can I just state, I am by no means having a go at formula feeding mums here, so do not want this to be implied.
I fully support happy, healthy babies, whether that be through breast or bottle. I just don't support lying or the underhand way things are done to influence.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Yep as BH said the bottom line was these women were tricked/trapped into needing Nestles product when they had a perfectly good FREE food for their babies which wouldnt run out or require water, cleaning, extra equipment etc. Contrary to what you might think, even women with poor health and diet can BF without too many problems which is why you will see them nursing longer because when other food is scarce, they can at least offer a drink/food in the form of their BM.

What mother doesnt want the best for their baby? These uneducated women were told that the formula was superiour to BM so of course in a place with high infant mortality, they wanted to give their babes as much chance to survive as possible. By the time the freebies had run out their BM was gone and as BH said they would struggle to buy the formula, then either not have clean water to make it with or use less of the powder to make it stretch further and their babies died - lots of them. Disgusting by anyone's standard.

I was bottle fed in the 70s and my mum said she was told that formula was superior to BM so of course she wanted to give me the best - what mum wouldnt?

We digress.....

Emma - where are you upto now with the course etc??

x

 

[BabyHaines]

Well....I've managed to do some PND research and I keep trying to start my assignment, but a certain little man seems to have other ideas!!
I am v tired this eve, but I might go and make a start on it at least. I need together cracking, I just don't seem to have much chance!!

I am looking forward to this weekend xxxx

 

[Blob]

Urgh that is so so awful

Oooh Lisa you got any fixed ideas of when to do the course...? We have only just picked two weekends for Tabs birthday party either the 26th Sep or 3rd Oct

 

[Mervs Mum]

still waiting on them coming back to me but I'll remember those dates

 

[BabyHaines]

I'm getting so excited about this weekend!! I'm not sure which day, but I know we cover a whole day of breastfeeding at some point, so am really looking forward to that xxxx

 

[Freya]

Hi all!

Just noticed this group and wanted to post a quick hello and to ask if I can join in!

In a nutshell I'm planning a small deviation in my career! Due on the 'nurturing birth' training in Sheffield mid June and am looking forward to becoming a Doula. I'm also doing the hypnobirthing training course in November, as I've got a background in hypnotherapy and having experienced a positive 'hypnobirth' myself am reaaaaalllllly keen use this in my work.

I haven't had time to read all the pages of the thread yet, so will settle down with a nice piece of cake to get to know everyone!

Xxxxx Freya (Lisa)

 

[Mervs Mum]

Hi Lisa I might be on that course myself!

 

[Freya]

Oooo just been reading through and saw you're thinking about which way to go, course or home hosting with bf Sid. Any decisions? I'm sooo looking forward to it.

 

[Blob]

Ooooh that looks quite nice to do hypnobirthing also Hmmm....

Lisa i am SO exited about doing the course If i just say that i will keep her birthday for the Oct one, would that be ok Obv i know its up to you when you make it but just put it out there