EDL nonsense.

[randomrach]

Paloma

I can't find a recent report but in 2012 the food standards agency reported that 90% (I think, not entirely sure) of halal animals were stunned before slaughter, although yes this is a lower voltage stunning than would traditionally be used. There was some research done in Germany, late 70s/ early 80s which used ECG machines to monitor the animals pain levels whilst being slaughtered - halal vs non halal and non halal managed to register a higher pain level than halal animals. It is an old study though and I cannot find a similar one that is more up to date. Obviously I do think everyone should have a choice (including Muslim people, many of which choose to eat whatever they like) but if I were SO against it I would be sure to ask. There is info online that details which supermarkets do use halal and which meats would be, so there are ways to avoid it. There should be options for everyone.

Yes there should be options for everyone, but I feel like my freedom of choice has been taken away. Unless I trace back the 4 digit eu code on my meat back to its slaughterhouse, there's no way of knowing if it has been slaughtered to the halal method. I think a lot of people are upset as it's just been put out there with no information or notice of what it is and what's involved.

I'd love to see that study RandomRach, there's no way an animal stunned would have a higher pain level than a non stunned animal. And if that was true I'm pretty sure the practice of stunning before slaughter would have changed since then!

Have to agree with Paloma on this post it does feel a little like our freedom of choice is being taken away, and it is unfortunately down to religion. That doesn't make me a racist or hate Muslims, it just means that my choice is maybe being overlooked just because I'm not religious.

I'm trying to find the actual original study on it but as I said, it's a fairly old study. Here's a link to an overview of the results-

https://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm

Bare with whilst I try to find the original study or at least something more reliable.

 

[Paloma123]

Yes, and I said that they are, and you're ignoring it I was pointing out that the food is monitored and you kept on about it not FSA monitored which 1) Certainly SOME if not all is and 2) As I said it's monitored by an Islamic authority, and you just continued to say it isn't FSA monitored so yes I do wonder what the issue is. I did not say you were racist at any point. If you're bored of the debate you know you can always not debate anymore....

Well even your mate seems to think so.

 

[emyandpotato]

Also, for those not bored with the subject, I found this. I'm not 100% but I think the part where it says a member of the FSA means monitored by? But I'm not sure. If anyone knows I'm actually getting really fascinated now so would love to know! https://www.halalhmc.org/userfiles/file/HMC Key Facts Sheet.pdf

 

[Paloma123]

Also, for those not bored with the subject, I found this. I'm not 100% but I think the part where it says a member of the FSA means monitored by? But I'm not sure. If anyone knows I'm actually getting really fascinated now so would love to know! https://www.halalhmc.org/userfiles/file/HMC Key Facts Sheet.pdf

Why should I give you the satisfaction of bullying me off of a thread by placing the racist card.

 

[emyandpotato]

Also, for those not bored with the subject, I found this. I'm not 100% but I think the part where it says a member of the FSA means monitored by? But I'm not sure. If anyone knows I'm actually getting really fascinated now so would love to know! https://www.halalhmc.org/userfiles/file/HMC Key Facts Sheet.pdf

Why should I give you the satisfaction of bullying me off of a thread by placing the racist card.

I'm sorry, what? I have not once even mentioned the word racist, except when you have brought it up, nor have I tried to insinuate it. I'm not trying to bully you away from anywhere, we just disagree! For all of your comments about us being a clique and this and that you're actually being pretty upsetting and offensive, because I'm trying to be polite and the one time I was rude cos you pissed me off I went back and edited the post to apologise. Please stop with the clique thing because it's upsetting and it will also result in closing the discussion of an interesting topic.

 

[Noodlebear]

Paloma please can we cool it again? It really isn't necessary. I can assure you that if anyone had called you racist I'd have said something, it just hasn't happened. Your point wasn't clear so another poster challenged you, that's all.

 

[Paloma123]

I don't understand the problem? They are monitored and licensed. So what if it is by a Muslim run authority? And you are STILL denying that the FSA monitors some so the article is clearly flawed. I feel like you're mistrusting of an Islamic authority put in place by the government for no other reason than it isn't the FSA, rather than because the authority itself in unreliable, which we don't have evidence of. The FSA itself has been in disgrace recently anyway, with the whole horse meat thing.

Oh for goodness sake!!!! This is getting boring now. You just won't leave it will you, all I said was they're not audited by the Fsa! When did I say I have a problem with an Islamic run authority?! You're clearly on a witch hunt to make me out to be racist and I think you're bang out of order. You don't know me, my beliefs, my heritage, or my race so I think you need to think about what you're saying to me cause it's coming across as you want me to be some kind of racist islamaphobe or something.

I'm sorry but your posts come across that way. You've made a massive point of saying its not FSA monitored but its monitored by Muslim run authority as though that authority is less able or less willing to monitor that it is done in the best way possible? I don't think emy its trying to make you sound racist at all. Shes calling you out on valid points in the debate section of the forum.

THIS is offensive

 

[emyandpotato]

Paloma, all anyone is asking you is why do you think the government issues Islamic authority for halal meat is any less suitable than the FSA? And that's when we haven't even established whether or not the FSA monitors the Islamic authority.

 

[randomrach]

Paloma, I wonder you have watched halal slaughter or if the idea completely puts you off wanting to see it?

Mercy Halal Islamic Slaughter Part 1.mp4: https://youtu.be/dU3O5rykwe4

Obviously that would be an 'ideal' representation of halal slaughter and possibly not always the case. I think the fact that only qualified halal butchers are allowed to perform the slaughter can only be a good thing, along with the fact that halal abattoirs require a qualified vet on site aswell. I'm not sure how this compares to traditional. I'm not saying I'm for or against it but it's good to step back and look at the whole picture with a little knowledge

 

[lhancock90]

I don't understand the problem? They are monitored and licensed. So what if it is by a Muslim run authority? And you are STILL denying that the FSA monitors some so the article is clearly flawed. I feel like you're mistrusting of an Islamic authority put in place by the government for no other reason than it isn't the FSA, rather than because the authority itself in unreliable, which we don't have evidence of. The FSA itself has been in disgrace recently anyway, with the whole horse meat thing.

Oh for goodness sake!!!! This is getting boring now. You just won't leave it will you, all I said was they're not audited by the Fsa! When did I say I have a problem with an Islamic run authority?! You're clearly on a witch hunt to make me out to be racist and I think you're bang out of order. You don't know me, my beliefs, my heritage, or my race so I think you need to think about what you're saying to me cause it's coming across as you want me to be some kind of racist islamaphobe or something.

I'm sorry but your posts come across that way. You've made a massive point of saying its not FSA monitored but its monitored by Muslim run authority as though that authority is less able or less willing to monitor that it is done in the best way possible? I don't think emy its trying to make you sound racist at all. Shes calling you out on valid points in the debate section of the forum.

THIS is offensive

Its offensive for me to point out the way i feel your posts are coming across? Did i say oh your a massive racist? I said your posts seem to be indicating that you are implying the muslim authority is less capable than the FSA! Which they are!

I'm sorry if you think i was implying you are being racist, it was poorly typed what i mean is that you have implied that the muslim run authority is not as, i'm not sure what the word would be but along the lines of trustworthy to do the job the way the FSA are.
I won't apoligise for saying your posts come across that way because they do.

 

[randomrach]

From HFA website -

'Apart from FSA audit and inspection the HFA checks compliance and logging of HACCP.'

' The HFA is purely an authenticating body endorsing their products as halal.'

Unless I'm understanding wrong that means halal slaughterhouses ARE inspected and audited by the FSA

 

[emyandpotato]

From HFA website -

'Apart from FSA audit and inspection the HFA checks compliance and logging of HACCP.'

' The HFA is purely an authenticating body endorsing their products as halal.'

Unless I'm understanding wrong that means halal slaughterhouses ARE inspected and audited by the FSA

That's what I thought too but not 100% on whether it is exactly the same as for non-halal? Though obviously it's clearly monitored in general which is the main thing!

 

[ttc_lolly]

Paloma

I can't find a recent report but in 2012 the food standards agency reported that 90% (I think, not entirely sure) of halal animals were stunned before slaughter, although yes this is a lower voltage stunning than would traditionally be used. There was some research done in Germany, late 70s/ early 80s which used ECG machines to monitor the animals pain levels whilst being slaughtered - halal vs non halal and non halal managed to register a higher pain level than halal animals. It is an old study though and I cannot find a similar one that is more up to date. Obviously I do think everyone should have a choice (including Muslim people, many of which choose to eat whatever they like) but if I were SO against it I would be sure to ask. There is info online that details which supermarkets do use halal and which meats would be, so there are ways to avoid it. There should be options for everyone.

Yes there should be options for everyone, but I feel like my freedom of choice has been taken away. Unless I trace back the 4 digit eu code on my meat back to its slaughterhouse, there's no way of knowing if it has been slaughtered to the halal method. I think a lot of people are upset as it's just been put out there with no information or notice of what it is and what's involved.

I'd love to see that study RandomRach, there's no way an animal stunned would have a higher pain level than a non stunned animal. And if that was true I'm pretty sure the practice of stunning before slaughter would have changed since then!

Have to agree with Paloma on this post it does feel a little like our freedom of choice is being taken away, and it is unfortunately down to religion. That doesn't make me a racist or hate Muslims, it just means that my choice is maybe being overlooked just because I'm not religious.

I'm trying to find the actual original study on it but as I said, it's a fairly old study. Here's a link to an overview of the results-

https://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm

Bare with whilst I try to find the original study or at least something more reliable.

Oh sorry, I meant from an independant source

And that's not me trusting it because it's from a Muslim source btw before anyone says or thinks it! But of course, they who perform and eat the meat slaughtered in such a way will want to defend it.

 

[randomrach]

^The study itself was done by a German professor called Wilhelm Schulze, cannot for the life of me find it though. It would be an interesting read as clearly ECG and EEG monitor doesn't lie and the professor was independent.

https://heartscience.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/slaughtering-methods/

This one is not from a medical website and goes into more detail. I don't think the original is anywhere to be seen to be honest. Conclusion seems to be the same wherever this study is discussed though. Interestingly from what I can find nothing at all disputes the halal results but the study also says that the captive bolt device used was suspect.

 

[ttc_lolly]

Again though, it's still not a non-involved source as it's an Islamic blog

I believe the study you're talking about has pretty much been disproved anyway, the guy who carried out his study said as much before he died.

Ghanem cites a 1978 study relying on EEG measurements led by Wilhelm Schulze of the University of Hanover, Germany, apparently concluding that halal slaughter was more humane than slaughter following stunning. But Schulze himself, who died in 2002, warned in his report that the stunning technique may not have functioned properly.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...pain-of-religious-slaughter.html#.U3CXANq9KSM

 

[bumpy_j]

Has anyone seen the 'Britain First' facebook page? It's got about 300k likes and it's absolutely revolting. They keep using Lee Rigby's image for various things despite his mother requesting for them not to and they have started to 'invade' mosques (by invade, basically walk in, have a go at them and hand out army bibles and leaflets about grooming gangs). It's really unsettling how hysterical the whole thing is.

 

[sparkle_1979]

Yep just seen it and was not shocked to be honest. Just a page for thick racists

 

[bumpy_j]

I can't believe it's SO popular though, even the Labour, Conservative and UKIP pages have only half the fans. They're asking for donations too...what the hell does that money go on?

 

[sparkle_1979]

I hate to think

 

[randomrach]

I mentioned Britain First earlier on, they're along the same lines as EDL in the things they post. The idiocy they post and the people that go along with it is worrying, absolutely disgusting.