EDL nonsense.

[Noodlebear]

Nothing cliquey about it. If I agree with you, I agree with you. If I dont, I don't. If you're rude it doesn't matter if I agree with you or not - it'll bug me because it's unnecessary.

 

[Paloma123]

Paloma I'm sorry that you feel it is cliquey but really we're all just putting our opinions, we're not ganging up on your views or trying to rally against you! I don't know any of the other posters well so hardly a clique, and I'm pretty sure that on other topics we have all disagreed with each other too!

Yes probably so! I do tend to avoid the threads which get heated as I don't really like confrontation, and I'm quite hot headed! Unlike circumcision and ear piercing etc (using those 2 as they're usually the worst for conflict and opposed opinions) I do feel strongly about this subject.

The world would be boring if we all agreed, but then it would be nice for some things.

 

[Noodlebear]

You'll find me disagreeing with everyone on the circ thread. Lol.

 

[Paloma123]

I'll have to go and have a read lol, but personally I've never given it much thought. I just assumed in England it wasn't a big deal? I have a girl, but if I had a boy I wouldn't think twice, I'd just keep it as it was? I've read one in the tri boards once before and it got crazy beyond belief.

 

[Noodlebear]

That's kinda my stance although I feel much more strongly about it than you apparently do you'll also see me pop up in ear piercing threads if I feel strongly about something then I'll have my say! Lol.

 

[Paloma123]

Maybe I was naive in thinking most people left their sons parts alone. People comparing it to things like a cleft lip and a deformity which needs removing is shocking though.

I think I'll stick to the "what's everyone having for tea" threads. Lol.

 

[Rachel_C]

From my personal experience of talking to people of different faiths and traditions, I'd say that most Christians (real Christians, not the BNP/EDL/UKIP types who latch onto anything Islamophobic with 'But we're a Christian country stamp stamp stamp") would see the God of Islam as the same God as their own, just with some later 'mistaken' add ons, just as most Jews would probably say that the God of Christianity is the same as the God of Judaism, just with some wrong ideas about Jesus. Those arguing differently are probably a much smaller group than Muslims so if you're arguing that the Muslim minority's dietary needs shouldn't affect the food sold to everybody else, perhaps apply that to those who believe Allah is a false idol i.e. they're so much in the minority that they shouldn't be allowed to affect the meat sold to everybody else.

This is a pretty good article to sum up how I feel about it - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/may/09/moral-bullshit-animal-lives-upset-dies Islam is more explicit than Christianity in the need to treat animals humanely. I am absolutely convinced that the final moments of an animal's life, while important, don't actually mean much if they are the end of a life filled with suffering. Non-halal meat is just as guilty in that regard. I haven't and won't look on YouTube for videos of half-stunned chickens running around with their heads half chopped off or for the panic some animals experience in non-halal slaughter. It's bad on both 'sides' - it's slaughter, not a tea party.

 

[lhancock90]

I clearly stated the fact it was copy and paste as I can't be bothered to argue about religion!

Just because you have the "likes" and support from a cliquey group of women, doesn't make anyone right. Anyone who has a different point of viewing here, wow!! God forbid!!

Well, you eat what you like then. I do not want to be buying halal meat, nor do I want to be unwillingly sold it in the supermarket and restaurants thank you, and I think people who don't want to have a right to be upset. You should research into Zakat and how buying halal indirectly supports and funds terrorism. Not to mention marginalising the work place as only MUSLIMS can carry out the slaughter in halal accredited houses. Only 4.8% of the UK is Muslim, so this is creating division and is unfair. What happens to all the non Muslims jobs? What happened to freedom of choice? Tax and VAT are issues too, it's a whole can of worms, not just people bashing Islam and Muslims. There are hugely valid points, and I would love for you to come and air your views and opinions on sites and with people I know x

I'd be interested to read evidence about is indirectly supporting terrorism? Also, i think an arguement about halal and kosher meat is going to tread into the religion waters, of course it is, it is the style of meat used primarily in two religions?

Just because you have the "likes" and support from a cliquey group of women, doesn't make anyone right. Anyone who has a different point of viewing here, wow!! God forbid!!

People are disagreeing with the points you make fairly as it is their opinion and this is a debate. If you can't cope with being debated with don't participate. Just don't be childish and rude about the ladies here because not everyone agrees with you.

You're missing the points though, skimming past them and clinging onto religion here.

Paloma I'm sorry that you feel it is cliquey but really we're all just putting our opinions, we're not ganging up on your views or trying to rally against you! I don't know any of the other posters well so hardly a clique, and I'm pretty sure that on other topics we have all disagreed with each other too!

Yes probably so! I do tend to avoid the threads which get heated as I don't really like confrontation, and I'm quite hot headed! Unlike circumcision and ear piercing etc (using those 2 as they're usually the worst for conflict and opposed opinions) I do feel strongly about this subject.

The world would be boring if we all agreed, but then it would be nice for some things.

I have to be honest but the women disagreeing with you in this thread are the least cliquely women on the forum. They are always fair, they give honest opinions and admit fault.

RE: the halal issue, provided the animal is stunned and the practice is made humane i have no problem with it. I feel absolutely assured that a huge percentage of those fussing over halal have absolutely no idea how meat is generally sourced and probably used battery farm eggs. With Daily Mail racial hatred its all very one sided and convenient to the argument for "Great Britain" and rarely a fair impartial set of facts.

 

[randomrach]

Double post.

 

[randomrach]

Totally disgusted by it. I'm constantly seeing 'Britain First' posts and it's all along the same lines. Given the fact that my childrens dad is from a majority Muslim country (Turkey) and that is actually the only religious influence they have in their life it really irritates me. I know many great Muslim people, they are not all killers/ rapists/ peodophiles by any means, they are just human beings no different to anyone else.

I've started deleting anyone that goes along with these extremist thugs.

I do agree people should have a choice of halal/haram meat (just like buying free range eggs lol) but I fail to see how eating subway or any other take away is an essential part of life.

 

[Noodlebear]

I'm going to have to start doing the same. It's 'scandals' like this that kind of draw them all out of the woodwork. Fortunately I haven't seen a lot but even one racist is one too many.

 

[randomrach]

I'm going to have to start doing the same. It's 'scandals' like this that kind of draw them all out of the woodwork. Fortunately I haven't seen a lot but even one racist is one too many.

Noodlebear my favourite is when they say they're not racist because a religion is not a race. Oh, so you don't discriminate against an entire race, only the entire Muslim community? Fantastic, that's much better. It's no different to me saying I don't like Jews because they're all pedophiles. I don't like black people because they all stab people. I don't like gingers because they're evil. It's all the same and none more acceptable than any other.

 

[Noodlebear]

Ah yes, I was graced with this wonderful image.

https://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Tish1992/10313855_454755238003076_7543051465132787085_n_zps9d140952.jpg

It may not be totally correct to say that they are 'racist' but if you have to defend your point of view in this way then it clearly isn't right.

 

[Paloma123]

"RE: the halal issue, provided the animal is stunned and the practice is made humane i have no problem with it. I feel absolutely assured that a huge percentage of those fussing over halal have absolutely no idea how meat is generally sourced and probably used battery farm eggs. With Daily Mail racial hatred its all very one sided and convenient to the argument for "Great Britain" and rarely a fair impartial set of facts"

lhancock90 -

That's just the thing, the animal isn't always stunned and if it is, it's a recoverable stun, not one to immobilise and desensitize. As for eggs, I'm not a massive fan but the ones I do eat I have from my brother who keeps chickens in his garden. And for the record, I do not read the Daily Fail!

I really hope nobody is trying to insinuate I am racist.

 

[randomrach]

Paloma

I can't find a recent report but in 2012 the food standards agency reported that 90% (I think, not entirely sure) of halal animals were stunned before slaughter, although yes this is a lower voltage stunning than would traditionally be used. There was some research done in Germany, late 70s/ early 80s which used ECG machines to monitor the animals pain levels whilst being slaughtered - halal vs non halal and non halal managed to register a higher pain level than halal animals. It is an old study though and I cannot find a similar one that is more up to date. Obviously I do think everyone should have a choice (including Muslim people, many of which choose to eat whatever they like) but if I were SO against it I would be sure to ask. There is info online that details which supermarkets do use halal and which meats would be, so there are ways to avoid it. There should be options for everyone.

 

[Paloma123]

Paloma

I can't find a recent report but in 2012 the food standards agency reported that 90% (I think, not entirely sure) of halal animals were stunned before slaughter, although yes this is a lower voltage stunning than would traditionally be used. There was some research done in Germany, late 70s/ early 80s which used ECG machines to monitor the animals pain levels whilst being slaughtered - halal vs non halal and non halal managed to register a higher pain level than halal animals. It is an old study though and I cannot find a similar one that is more up to date. Obviously I do think everyone should have a choice (including Muslim people, many of which choose to eat whatever they like) but if I were SO against it I would be sure to ask. There is info online that details which supermarkets do use halal and which meats would be, so there are ways to avoid it. There should be options for everyone.

Yes there should be options for everyone, but I feel like my freedom of choice has been taken away. Unless I trace back the 4 digit eu code on my meat back to its slaughterhouse, there's no way of knowing if it has been slaughtered to the halal method. I think a lot of people are upset as it's just been put out there with no information or notice of what it is and what's involved.

 

[Noodlebear]

Paloma you're talking about the way the animals are treated and your religion so no, I don't think you're being racist.

 

[lhancock90]

"RE: the halal issue, provided the animal is stunned and the practice is made humane i have no problem with it. I feel absolutely assured that a huge percentage of those fussing over halal have absolutely no idea how meat is generally sourced and probably used battery farm eggs. With Daily Mail racial hatred its all very one sided and convenient to the argument for "Great Britain" and rarely a fair impartial set of facts"

lhancock90 -

That's just the thing, the animal isn't always stunned and if it is, it's a recoverable stun, not one to immobilise and desensitize. As for eggs, I'm not a massive fan but the ones I do eat I have from my brother who keeps chickens in his garden. And for the record, I do not read the Daily Fail!

I really hope nobody is trying to insinuate I am racist.

My general comment about Halal wasn't directed at you at all...

 

[ttc_lolly]

Paloma

I can't find a recent report but in 2012 the food standards agency reported that 90% (I think, not entirely sure) of halal animals were stunned before slaughter, although yes this is a lower voltage stunning than would traditionally be used. There was some research done in Germany, late 70s/ early 80s which used ECG machines to monitor the animals pain levels whilst being slaughtered - halal vs non halal and non halal managed to register a higher pain level than halal animals. It is an old study though and I cannot find a similar one that is more up to date. Obviously I do think everyone should have a choice (including Muslim people, many of which choose to eat whatever they like) but if I were SO against it I would be sure to ask. There is info online that details which supermarkets do use halal and which meats would be, so there are ways to avoid it. There should be options for everyone.

Yes there should be options for everyone, but I feel like my freedom of choice has been taken away. Unless I trace back the 4 digit eu code on my meat back to its slaughterhouse, there's no way of knowing if it has been slaughtered to the halal method. I think a lot of people are upset as it's just been put out there with no information or notice of what it is and what's involved.

I'd love to see that study RandomRach, there's no way an animal stunned would have a higher pain level than a non stunned animal. And if that was true I'm pretty sure the practice of stunning before slaughter would have changed since then!

Have to agree with Paloma on this post it does feel a little like our freedom of choice is being taken away, and it is unfortunately down to religion. That doesn't make me a racist or hate Muslims, it just means that my choice is maybe being overlooked just because I'm not religious.

 

[lhancock90]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..