EDL nonsense.

[Paloma123]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

 

[emyandpotato]

I've just done some research on halal slaughter as it's quite an interesting topic and I was wondering after the stunning thing.

1) Someone said before that it means only Muslims can work in the slaughter houses and therefore there are less jobs. Actually, halal meat can be slaughtered by any person 'of the book' so a Jew or Christian, and according to the UK census about 70% of people still declare themselves Christians, and so are good to go!

2) Whoever posted about the lack of pain with the halal method of slaughter was actually right. Here is the study: https://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

It makes sense too because the reason for the method of slaughter for both halal and kosher meat is to minimise suffering and make sure the meat is hygienic for consumption in high temperatures (the draining of the blood thing).

 

[emyandpotato]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

40 seconds is more than enough to slit an animal's throat.

 

[Paloma123]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

40 seconds is more than enough to slit an animal's throat.

If done immediately, but even then once that wears off the animal is aware until it's heart stops. So it's left to just bleed to death, I saw one mini documentary and a lady researcher/scientist said she witnessed (I think it was a sheep) still alive after 2 minutes.

Plus, if you're stunning a load of animals as prep, I wouldn't wanna be those last few in the que as any of the animals after the 40 second mark are gonna feel it.

 

[emyandpotato]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

40 seconds is more than enough to slit an animal's throat.

If done immediately, but even then once that wears off the animal is aware until it's heart stops. So it's left to just bleed to death, I saw one mini documentary and a lady researcher/scientist said she witnessed (I think it was a sheep) still alive after 2 minutes.

Plus, if you're stunning a load of animals as prep, I wouldn't wanna be those last few in the que as any of the animals after the 40 second mark are gonna feel it.

A trained butcher would make sure to slit the throat in such a way to ensure death or unconsciousness within seconds. If you read the study I posted it shows that it takes very little time for death by the slitting of the throat. Secondly, they wouldn't get 50 animals lined up, stun them, and slit their throats one by one as 30+ animals regained consciousness.

 

[Paloma123]

I've just done some research on halal slaughter as it's quite an interesting topic and I was wondering after the stunning thing.

1) Someone said before that it means only Muslims can work in the slaughter houses and therefore there are less jobs. Actually, halal meat can be slaughtered by any person 'of the book' so a Jew or Christian, and according to the UK census about 70% of people still declare themselves Christians, and so are good to go!

2) Whoever posted about the lack of pain with the halal method of slaughter was actually right. Here is the study: https://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

It makes sense too because the reason for the method of slaughter for both halal and kosher meat is to minimise suffering and make sure the meat is hygienic for consumption in high temperatures (the draining of the blood thing).

Hmmmmm... Says Muslim to me. And that's on .gov website so surely they've gotta be legit with workplace law etc?!

 

[Paloma123]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

40 seconds is more than enough to slit an animal's throat.

If done immediately, but even then once that wears off the animal is aware until it's heart stops. So it's left to just bleed to death, I saw one mini documentary and a lady researcher/scientist said she witnessed (I think it was a sheep) still alive after 2 minutes.

Plus, if you're stunning a load of animals as prep, I wouldn't wanna be those last few in the que as any of the animals after the 40 second mark are gonna feel it.

A trained butcher would make sure to slit the throat in such a way to ensure death or unconsciousness within seconds. If you read the study I posted it shows that it takes very little time for death by the slitting of the throat. Secondly, they wouldn't get 50 animals lined up, stun them, and slit their throats one by one as 30+ animals regained consciousness.

How would you know? Halal slaughterhouses are unaudited by the FSA and all sorts of shit go on. I don't think every single cut is going to be 100% effective, 100% of the time.

 

[emyandpotato]

I've just done some research on halal slaughter as it's quite an interesting topic and I was wondering after the stunning thing.

1) Someone said before that it means only Muslims can work in the slaughter houses and therefore there are less jobs. Actually, halal meat can be slaughtered by any person 'of the book' so a Jew or Christian, and according to the UK census about 70% of people still declare themselves Christians, and so are good to go!

2) Whoever posted about the lack of pain with the halal method of slaughter was actually right. Here is the study: https://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

It makes sense too because the reason for the method of slaughter for both halal and kosher meat is to minimise suffering and make sure the meat is hygienic for consumption in high temperatures (the draining of the blood thing).

Hmmmmm... Says Muslim to me.

Erm, do you mean it's a Muslim author? Because yes I think it is, because it's a source explaining the concept behind specific religious rules to the people it's most relevant to, so it makes sense to be a Muslim source. But that doesn't make it inaccurate in any way, just as a report about conventional non-halal methods would necessary be inaccurate just because it was written by an atheist.

ETA: Oh I just seen the picture, it didn't show up before. Yes it says Muslim, but according to religious rules the butcher doesn't have to be a Muslim. This is the preference of one slaughter house. Similarly, Catholic schools may specify Catholic staff, but you don't have to be by law or by any religious teaching.

 

[Noodlebear]

That goes for any type of animal slaughter.

 

[Paloma123]

I've just done some research on halal slaughter as it's quite an interesting topic and I was wondering after the stunning thing.

1) Someone said before that it means only Muslims can work in the slaughter houses and therefore there are less jobs. Actually, halal meat can be slaughtered by any person 'of the book' so a Jew or Christian, and according to the UK census about 70% of people still declare themselves Christians, and so are good to go!

2) Whoever posted about the lack of pain with the halal method of slaughter was actually right. Here is the study: https://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm

It makes sense too because the reason for the method of slaughter for both halal and kosher meat is to minimise suffering and make sure the meat is hygienic for consumption in high temperatures (the draining of the blood thing).

Hmmmmm... Says Muslim to me.

Erm, do you mean it's a Muslim author? Because yes I think it is, because it's a source explaining the concept behind specific religious rules to the people it's most relevant to, so it makes sense to be a Muslim source. But that doesn't make it inaccurate in any way, just as a report about conventional non-halal methods would necessary be inaccurate just because it was written by an atheist.

No the attached doc I added specifically says a practising Muslim in job description. Is the photo not showing ?

 

[emyandpotato]

Even with a stun that would fade it would only take up to 5 minutes for an animal with a slit throat to die, surely the stun would still be active then!

On another note, i've probably landed myself on some sort of murder list after googling that..

No the stun they would use if they used one would last around 40 seconds tops. After that, it's back to 'normal'.

40 seconds is more than enough to slit an animal's throat.

If done immediately, but even then once that wears off the animal is aware until it's heart stops. So it's left to just bleed to death, I saw one mini documentary and a lady researcher/scientist said she witnessed (I think it was a sheep) still alive after 2 minutes.

Plus, if you're stunning a load of animals as prep, I wouldn't wanna be those last few in the que as any of the animals after the 40 second mark are gonna feel it.

A trained butcher would make sure to slit the throat in such a way to ensure death or unconsciousness within seconds. If you read the study I posted it shows that it takes very little time for death by the slitting of the throat. Secondly, they wouldn't get 50 animals lined up, stun them, and slit their throats one by one as 30+ animals regained consciousness.

How would you know? Halal slaughterhouses are unaudited by the FSA and all sorts of shit go on. I don't think every single cut is going to be 100% effective, 100% of the time.

And likely not 100% of stuns will work and there will be suffering. But like I said the point is lack of pain so their ideal will be for a very quick death, and it is very likely that their employees are experienced enough to make sure of this.

I couldn't find anything conclusive on whether or not all halal slaughterhouses are FSA monitored, but on the FSA website it mentions a halal slaughterhouse on their 'cause for concern' list, proving that at least some ARE monitored, if not all.

 

[emyandpotato]

Okay Paloma with regards to the Muslim butcher vs. a Jew/Christian/Muslim butcher the problem is not with Islam, it's a government regulation. So basically our government has said halal slaughter can only be done by Muslims, so it's not that in Islam it says specifically Muslims, if that makes sense? So although the law is perhaps not ideal it is not halal meat itself which means fewer jobs for non Muslims.

 

[emyandpotato]

And yes, all religious slaughterhouses are monitored and the butchers are licensed. Says here: https://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/slaughter/qurbani-udhia.htm

 

[Paloma123]

And yes, all religious slaughterhouses are monitored and the butchers are licensed. Says here: https://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/slaughter/qurbani-udhia.htm

https://www.meatinfo.co.uk/news/ful...s_responsibility_for_halal_certification.html

I can assure you, they're not. I have spoken to some and suggest you call and do the same.

 

[emyandpotato]

They are monitored by the government, whether it's by the FSA or not. The link is a government website and it clearly claims they monitor and necessitate licenses. If they are not all linked to the FSA- some clearly are- then I don't know why that is, but the point is that the government is monitoring them so it's not just randoms cutting up meat willy nilly. Anyway, I'm not sure about the accuracy of the article because the FDA's own website claims it monitors at least some halal abattoirs.

 

[Paloma123]

They are monitored by the government, whether it's by the FSA or not. The link is a government website and it clearly claims they monitor and necessitate licenses. If they are not all linked to the FSA- some clearly are- then I don't know why that is, but the point is that the government is monitoring them so it's not just randoms cutting up meat willy nilly. Anyway, I'm not sure about the accuracy of the article because the FDA's own website claims it monitors at least some halal abattoirs.

Yes. Through Halal Food Authority.

 

[emyandpotato]

I don't understand the problem? They are monitored and licensed. So what if it is by a Muslim run authority? And you are STILL denying that the FSA monitors some so the article is clearly flawed. I feel like you're mistrusting of an Islamic authority put in place by the government for no other reason than it isn't the FSA, rather than because the authority itself in unreliable, which we don't have evidence of. The FSA itself has been in disgrace recently anyway, with the whole horse meat thing.

 

[Paloma123]

I don't understand the problem? They are monitored and licensed. So what if it is by a Muslim run authority? And you are STILL denying that the FSA monitors some so the article is clearly flawed. I feel like you're mistrusting of an Islamic authority put in place by the government for no other reason than it isn't the FSA, rather than because the authority itself in unreliable, which we don't have evidence of. The FSA itself has been in disgrace recently anyway, with the whole horse meat thing.

Oh for goodness sake!!!! This is getting boring now. You just won't leave it will you, all I said was they're not audited by the Fsa! When did I say I have a problem with an Islamic run authority?! You're clearly on a witch hunt to make me out to be racist and I think you're bang out of order. You don't know me, my beliefs, my heritage, or my race so I think you need to think about what you're saying to me cause it's coming across as you want me to be some kind of racist islamaphobe or something.

 

[lhancock90]

I don't understand the problem? They are monitored and licensed. So what if it is by a Muslim run authority? And you are STILL denying that the FSA monitors some so the article is clearly flawed. I feel like you're mistrusting of an Islamic authority put in place by the government for no other reason than it isn't the FSA, rather than because the authority itself in unreliable, which we don't have evidence of. The FSA itself has been in disgrace recently anyway, with the whole horse meat thing.

Oh for goodness sake!!!! This is getting boring now. You just won't leave it will you, all I said was they're not audited by the Fsa! When did I say I have a problem with an Islamic run authority?! You're clearly on a witch hunt to make me out to be racist and I think you're bang out of order. You don't know me, my beliefs, my heritage, or my race so I think you need to think about what you're saying to me cause it's coming across as you want me to be some kind of racist islamaphobe or something.

I'm sorry but your posts come across that way. You've made a massive point of saying its not FSA monitored but its monitored by Muslim run authority as though that authority is less able or less willing to monitor that it is done in the best way possible? I don't think emy its trying to make you sound racist at all. Shes calling you out on valid points in the debate section of the forum.

 

[emyandpotato]

Yes, and I said that they are, and you're ignoring it I was pointing out that the food is monitored and you kept on about it not FSA monitored which 1) Certainly SOME if not all is and 2) As I said it's monitored by an Islamic authority, and you just continued to say it isn't FSA monitored so yes I do wonder what the issue is. I did not say you were racist at any point. If you're bored of the debate you know you can always not debate anymore....