I think it's very harsh to arrest him...

[smokey]

Sorry havnt read the rest of the thread yet but yes the man should be arrasted and charged with manslaughter.
1, he deviated off the designated sailing route conciderably without valid reason.
2 law states that a captain should not leave his ship untill all passangers and crew are safe, he claimes he did not leave the ship before they where safe yet if he didnt leave it then how comes he is safely on land while there is still a search going on for survivers ie he left the ship long before he should have.
3 he clearly had no control or leadership over his crew and left he crew to deal with the situation without any proper guidance from himself.

Clearly time will tell and the courts will decide and there is clearly more to the situation then first told but he put lives in danger by going off course and sailing into an area without adiquate charting so close to land and if its found to be his fault then I hope he is charged with manslaughter.

 

[MrsBandEgglet]

There were also reports that he purposefully sailed so close to shore so crew members could wave to a former collegue - I really hope that's just a silly rumour though. I think, from what I've read and seen in the news he acted irresponsibly and cowardly.

 

[smokey]

I heard it on the radio before and was like Whatttt that's harsh, I didn't realise it was an offence to abandon ship, I thought it was just 'the done thing' to be the last off, Reid t realise there was a law?

But it must have been an awful position to be in, (I don't know the full story, if he was drinking or what) but if he had a family, can you imagine explaining to his kids they didn't have a daddy, or grandkids they no longer have a grandad because he had to wait..? In those situations you out yourself first and you save your own life..most people panic and don't think the situation through properly!

But by that reasoning a fireman shouldnt go into a burning building, a policeman shouldnt go out on patrol, a soilder shouldnt go into battle.
All because they need to think of themselves first and whats best for their own lives each time they go to work.
Its all part and parcle of the jobs they choose, this is part of what they are trained and paid for and he knew the rules of his chosen proffesion both the good and bad side.
At the very least its a matter of pride and honour to stay and make sure all souls under your care are safe.
Two old men died because they waited for women and children to get to safety first, they could have gone as well but chose to let women and childen go first.
These are the type of people that should be honoured but then to find the capain jumped ship before women and children where safe is discusting.

 

[smokey]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

But it doesnt matter how you may or may not react you still accept the fact you will face charges if you dont act in the proper way.
So even before you sail that day you are choosing to follow those rules and are choosing your fate before you have even acted, you have already chosen to be held responsable if you break the law.

 

[special_kala]

I agree with Smokey completely.

 

[smelly07]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

But it doesnt matter how you may or may not react you still accept the fact you will face charges if you dont act in the proper way.
So even before you sail that day you are choosing to follow those rules and are choosing your fate before you have even acted, you have already chosen to be held responsable if you break the law.

which is why i said: obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly but i personally think IF he left the ship that doesnt deserve a 12 year prison sentence and that yes it needs a punishment but thats harsh because we are all only human people always say 'I WOULD NEVER DO THAT' and when it that situation 'THEY DO'.

Also a firefighter will not put their own lives at risk to save someone in a burning building they do a risk asessement of the job before they enter then,

1: they have to think about themselves first
2: the people in the building
3: the property

so basically if they think they can not get in that building and rescue someone safely they will not go in. No one can make someone do something that put their lives severly at risk. It doesnt matter what job you do. In the Army they could die yes but they wont purposely be told to do something that will almost certianly result in death. if that makes sense. basically you are not asked to risk your life to save another but obviously you can do so of your own free will..... you dont HAVE to do it because 'its part of a job'...........it isnt..........obviously when working in these jobs you are at higher risk of getting hurt/injured or dying but thats it.... no one is made to do it, or should feel they need to be a hero.... and will not get a prison sentence for not doing so.

The captain should of made sure all were of the ship and what i read apparently he was.... but i dont think he had a duty to go saving people who were trapped or whatever and put his own life at risk x

 

[gills8752]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

But it doesnt matter how you may or may not react you still accept the fact you will face charges if you dont act in the proper way.
So even before you sail that day you are choosing to follow those rules and are choosing your fate before you have even acted, you have already chosen to be held responsable if you break the law.

which is why i said: obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly but i personally think IF he left the ship that doesnt deserve a 12 year prison sentence and that yes it needs a punishment but thats harsh because we are all only human people always say 'I WOULD NEVER DO THAT' and when it that situation 'THEY DO'.

Also a firefighter will not put their own lives at risk to save someone in a burning building they do a risk asessement of the job before they enter then,

1: they have to think about themselves first
2: the people in the building
3: the property

so basically if they think they can not get in that building and rescue someone safely they will not go in. No one can make someone do something that put their lives severly at risk. It doesnt matter what job you do. In the Army they could die yes but they wont purposely be told to do something that will almost certianly result in death. if that makes sense. basically you are not asked to risk your life to save another but obviously you can do so of your own free will..... you dont HAVE to do it because 'its part of a job'...........it isnt..........obviously when working in these jobs you are at higher risk of getting hurt/injured or dying but thats it.... no one is made to do it, or should feel they need to be a hero.... and will not get a prison sentence for not doing so.

The captain should of made sure all were of the ship and what i read apparently he was.... but i dont think he had a duty to go saving people who were trapped or whatever and put his own life at risk x

I'm afraid its international law and as sea captain its a legal responsibility you undertake. I'm not away to trawl through the law books for the exact wording but in a court of law, he's responsible to do all in his power. IF he left the ship before doing all he could to ensure passengers were safe then he'll be found innocent but IF he left before doing everything he could, he'll be found guilty.
There isn't much point discussing his blame further because the media will never get the story right for all us keyboard warriors to discuss , that is for the law court to decide with their evidence. What ever he did though, its still his legal responsibility as a sea captain. He won't be expected to go all rambo on the ship and rescue the world but if he did leave the ship before doing all in his power, he will be in big trouble. IF what the media report is true that he left before all able bodied people had left then he will be charged. Its slightly different between being a sea captain and a fire fighter, there are different and hugely complex laws regarding seamanship.



argh lost my train of thought as I had to reply to some tit who keeps sending me wrong car parts lol...

 

[smelly07]

well thats exactly the point i was trying to get across and agree with you........like i said he should of made sure all 'abled bodied' were off the ship and he knew he couldnt possibly save anyone else before going...... but again he is human and reacted in a way he possibly didnt think he would..... i personally think the law is harsh..... i dont disagree that there is a law for sea captains...... and yes it is different to firefighters/police officers etc but i responding to smokies response to shorty1990 further up regarding that xxx and i agree about the media bit to xxx

 

[gills8752]

Glad we agree Smelly! (feel really bad calling you smelly but it is your username! lol)

 

[smelly07]

Glad we agree Smelly! (feel really bad calling you smelly but it is your username! lol)

honestly dont feel bad.... its what my hubby has always called me and as he says 'in a loving way' ......im so use to it i answer to it and dont even think that people think its odd... ha ha ha family members call me it to its sort of stuck ....and i'd rather be called smelly then 'hun' or 'babe' even my phone and kindle when switched on says 'hello smelly' and 'smelly's kindle'

 

[gills8752]

Well if its a term of endearment, I'll start calling everyone smelly!

 

[morri]

exactly the captain is the last person to leave a ship. He is the one who makes sure everyones going off, and yes Captains these days (and other crew are horrible these days ... just ask my oh he is an superintendant at a ship managmenent company.

 

[smokey]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

But it doesnt matter how you may or may not react you still accept the fact you will face charges if you dont act in the proper way.
So even before you sail that day you are choosing to follow those rules and are choosing your fate before you have even acted, you have already chosen to be held responsable if you break the law.

which is why i said: obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly but i personally think IF he left the ship that doesnt deserve a 12 year prison sentence and that yes it needs a punishment but thats harsh because we are all only human people always say 'I WOULD NEVER DO THAT' and when it that situation 'THEY DO'.

Also a firefighter will not put their own lives at risk to save someone in a burning building they do a risk asessement of the job before they enter then,

1: they have to think about themselves first
2: the people in the building
3: the property

so basically if they think they can not get in that building and rescue someone safely they will not go in. No one can make someone do something that put their lives severly at risk. It doesnt matter what job you do. In the Army they could die yes but they wont purposely be told to do something that will almost certianly result in death. if that makes sense. basically you are not asked to risk your life to save another but obviously you can do so of your own free will..... you dont HAVE to do it because 'its part of a job'...........it isnt..........obviously when working in these jobs you are at higher risk of getting hurt/injured or dying but thats it.... no one is made to do it, or should feel they need to be a hero.... and will not get a prison sentence for not doing so.

The captain should of made sure all were of the ship and what i read apparently he was.... but i dont think he had a duty to go saving people who were trapped or whatever and put his own life at risk x

i dont realy understand this argument, no one has said he had to go saving lives or anything thats not what law he broke.
His duty by law and agreement of taking the job on is to stay with his ship untill everyone is safely off the ship, he is to be the last living person off.
I dont understand how he can say he was there till the end when there was rescue operations going on while he was standing on dry land, even the mayor of the island went onto the ship to help with rescue operations while the ships own captain sat safely on land.

By not following the rules of your job, rules you clearly knew about beforhand you should eccept your fate of your decision to choose to ignore them.

No ones saying he had to risk his life to rescue people that isnt the law in question.

 

[smokey]

strangly though the captain of a flight craft doesnt have anything like these rules so can grab a chute and jump for it without being arrested

 

[tina3747]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

Fabulous reply once aagain smelly pants!!!

I don't believe what's in the papers, everything's here say at the moment, it sounds a bit strange someone saying he cruised close to the shore to pick someone up or to show off the ship like I heard someone say today. I wouldn't surprise me if it's the companies fault and using him as a scapegoat. I'll be paying attention to the enquiry ...

Gods honest truth, faced in that situation I don't think I'd go out of my way to save people especially if if was thinking about my own family wether it was my job or not. I'd like to think I wouldn't tread on anyone in the process, help the ones that are within reach but I'd say my head would rule me and get out of there, honor or not.

Not sure if this is a crude thing to say but I'm surprised it's only in the 10/20s how many died, I was expecting 100s.

 

[smelly07]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

But it doesnt matter how you may or may not react you still accept the fact you will face charges if you dont act in the proper way.
So even before you sail that day you are choosing to follow those rules and are choosing your fate before you have even acted, you have already chosen to be held responsable if you break the law.

which is why i said: obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly but i personally think IF he left the ship that doesnt deserve a 12 year prison sentence and that yes it needs a punishment but thats harsh because we are all only human people always say 'I WOULD NEVER DO THAT' and when it that situation 'THEY DO'.

Also a firefighter will not put their own lives at risk to save someone in a burning building they do a risk asessement of the job before they enter then,

1: they have to think about themselves first
2: the people in the building
3: the property

so basically if they think they can not get in that building and rescue someone safely they will not go in. No one can make someone do something that put their lives severly at risk. It doesnt matter what job you do. In the Army they could die yes but they wont purposely be told to do something that will almost certianly result in death. if that makes sense. basically you are not asked to risk your life to save another but obviously you can do so of your own free will..... you dont HAVE to do it because 'its part of a job'...........it isnt..........obviously when working in these jobs you are at higher risk of getting hurt/injured or dying but thats it.... no one is made to do it, or should feel they need to be a hero.... and will not get a prison sentence for not doing so.

The captain should of made sure all were of the ship and what i read apparently he was.... but i dont think he had a duty to go saving people who were trapped or whatever and put his own life at risk x

i dont realy understand this argument, no one has said he had to go saving lives or anything thats not what law he broke.
His duty by law and agreement of taking the job on is to stay with his ship untill everyone is safely off the ship, he is to be the last living person off.
I dont understand how he can say he was there till the end when there was rescue operations going on while he was standing on dry land, even the mayor of the island went onto the ship to help with rescue operations while the ships own captain sat safely on land.

By not following the rules of your job, rules you clearly knew about beforhand you should eccept your fate of your decision to choose to ignore them.

No ones saying he had to risk his life to rescue people that isnt the law in question.

well sorry, must of taken your posts a different way to what you intended as thats how i read them.

All i am saying as no one knows how they will act in a situation like that. who really thinks something like that will happen to them? and i dont think anyone can say they will 100% act a certain way before they are put in that situation......i'm not saying its right as you say 'thats his job' and yes he needs punishment but i think 12 years in prison soley for abandoning ship is harsh. I dont deny he needs to be punished if he is at fault with the crash. x

 

[smelly07]

I heard the captain acted in a 'clumsy manner' when approaching the shore and that human error was the 'main' cause but it was dark the rocks were not shown on a map or detected on the ships sat nav and apparrently he and some crew were the last ones to leave the ship apart from the ones obviously trapped or in or under the water.........

obviously he needs to take responsibilty if he wasnt doing his job properly and caused the accident but as for leaving the ship before passengers i dont feel that he should be punished by a prison sentence for that..... loose his job yeah... but not a prison sentence...........NO ONE knows how they will act in that situation until they are in it.........we dont 100% know how we will react so i think its utterly ridiculous for him to get up to 12 years in prison for that..........its human nature, fight or flight x

Fabulous reply once aagain smelly pants!!!

I don't believe what's in the papers, everything's here say at the moment, it sounds a bit strange someone saying he cruised close to the shore to pick someone up or to show off the ship like I heard someone say today. I wouldn't surprise me if it's the companies fault and using him as a scapegoat. I'll be paying attention to the enquiry ...

Gods honest truth, faced in that situation I don't think I'd go out of my way to save people especially if if was thinking about my own family wether it was my job or not. I'd like to think I wouldn't tread on anyone in the process, help the ones that are within reach but I'd say my head would rule me and get out of there, honor or not.

Not sure if this is a crude thing to say but I'm surprised it's only in the 10/20s how many died, I was expecting 100s.

thanks Tina ......................and i thought that about the company to x

 

[carly_mummy2b]

But there were many other members of staff chefs waiters and dancers that were helping people get off the ship safely with no thought for themselves and then for the captain to act so cowardly is inexcusable and his arrest is absolutely justifiable and i for one hope he serves a long time in prison. There are currently 11 confirmed deaths!

 

[smokey]

On the news today was a recording of him arguing with life guards saying he had enough and he wanted to go home and leave him alone to go and the coast guard saying get back over there and do your duty

 

[hel_5]

it is his job surely they should have practiced what to do in such an emergency, im a manager in a hotel - we have fire drills and the procedure definately isnt leg it out of the hotel and go home!!! we have to try and get everyone out, then do a roll-call - guests and staff, then liaise with the fire brigade.