Illegal drugs - worse than legal ones?

AOB - i think you have missed my point entirely. You said yourself you think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal (which, for the last time, are drugs!!!) but then say the law doesn't need to be changed? The whole issue i have is that the gov seem to be pretending to look after us by making certain drugs illegal, whilst letting us pump our bodies full of toxins from other, legal - but still very much harmful - drugs. Personally I would just quite like the hypocricy to end and for them to pick one side of the fence instead of sitting on it.

It is saddening to see that those people who campaigned to get laws changed are not respected at all by some people. I believe we should all be extremely thankful for what happened in the past, 2010 wouldn't be the same without it.

I dont really get that either. alcohol and tobacco are drugs :shrug: thats fact. people cant choose to 'believe' something is not a drug. they are by definition, substances that affect the functioning of the mind and body, hence are drugs.

it is extremely sad though that for the sake of the money it brings in tht alcohol and tobacco remain legal - i mean what other reason could there be for not making them illegal? its madness!

I do think alcohol and cigs are drugs ............. because they are. But, i don't believe they are as dangerous as drugs. I do think cigs should be illegal, definately. Alcohol, i'm not too sure as i hardly drink so don't really have an opinion on it.

Again, i don't think the law should be changed in relation to the drugs that are illegal now. I would like to see cigs made illegal though.

Dopeyjopey, i agree with you that they need to make their minds up. The reason why cigs aren't illegal is because they make so much money out of them!

your language seems to suggest that you don't think they are drugs as you said "I don't believe they're as dangerous as drugs" But they are drugs. SO um... :shrug:

As for not having an opinion on alcohol as you hardly drink it... you seem to have an opinion on cannabis and you don't seem to take that either.

I would suggest you're softer on alcohol because you do occasionally partake in it and therefore don't consider it as harmful although it is for many other people.
 
I heard that there were talks of taking back the smoking ban in certain places, i think it was somewhere like pubs or clubs, i'll see if i can find anything on the net about it. I dont know how much, if any truth there is in it though

The money made on cigarettes is crazy, out in Europe you can buy a packet of 20 for as little as 2 euros, so thats about what, £1.70/£1.80 ... and the average for a packet of 20 here is about £5.80 ... so where has that other £4 gone?

Take you average smoker on 20 a day .. £4 x 365 = £1460 ... a year, per smoker. I cant see the goverment in a hurry to get rid of that when its not a compulsary tax iykwim, people choose to smoke.

The same goes for alcohol but i dont think the margins are that big.
 
AOB - i think you have missed my point entirely. You said yourself you think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal (which, for the last time, are drugs!!!) but then say the law doesn't need to be changed? The whole issue i have is that the gov seem to be pretending to look after us by making certain drugs illegal, whilst letting us pump our bodies full of toxins from other, legal - but still very much harmful - drugs. Personally I would just quite like the hypocricy to end and for them to pick one side of the fence instead of sitting on it.

It is saddening to see that those people who campaigned to get laws changed are not respected at all by some people. I believe we should all be extremely thankful for what happened in the past, 2010 wouldn't be the same without it.

I dont really get that either. alcohol and tobacco are drugs :shrug: thats fact. people cant choose to 'believe' something is not a drug. they are by definition, substances that affect the functioning of the mind and body, hence are drugs.

it is extremely sad though that for the sake of the money it brings in tht alcohol and tobacco remain legal - i mean what other reason could there be for not making them illegal? its madness!

I do think alcohol and cigs are drugs ............. because they are. But, i don't believe they are as dangerous as drugs. I do think cigs should be illegal, definately. Alcohol, i'm not too sure as i hardly drink so don't really have an opinion on it.

Again, i don't think the law should be changed in relation to the drugs that are illegal now. I would like to see cigs made illegal though.

Dopeyjopey, i agree with you that they need to make their minds up. The reason why cigs aren't illegal is because they make so much money out of them!

your language seems to suggest that you don't think they are drugs as you said "I don't believe they're as dangerous as drugs" But they are drugs. SO um... :shrug:

As for not having an opinion on alcohol as you hardly drink it... you seem to have an opinion on cannabis and you don't seem to take that either.

I would suggest you're softer on alcohol because you do occasionally partake in it and therefore don't consider it as harmful although it is for many other people.

Being pedantic yes alcohol and cigarettes are 'drugs' but to me real drugs are the illegal ones, cannibis, coke, heroin etc, which is why they are illegal. At the end of the day, they are ALL drugs but my personal belief is that cigarettes and alcohol are the lesser evil. My opinion is not wrong, it's just what i think.

Yes i have an opinion on cannibis and it's because i personally believe drugs (the illegal ones's ;) to makes that clear yet again) should be avoided, and so do the government and health professionals.

I have smoked weed many times, i went through a bad patch after being raped and it did me no good. I didn't react very well to weed. I just don't believe people should cosume drugs. And i would have said that before i had taken weed myself. The current drugs that are illegal should stay illegal, alcohol and cigarettes are the lesser evil in my opinion.
 
PP I suspect smokers are hoping our new 'liberal' government will lighten the legislation. Don't forget the tax has been hugely increased on cigarettes to try and stop people smoking. Same as on alcohol and this ties in with the conversations about minimum pricing on alcohol. Not sure how I feel about that one. Good to take measures to reduce drinking but why should rich people be the only ones who can drink?

Redpoppy from your description of cannabis users I suspect you're giving them as much more credit as some on the thread are taking. I've known an awful lot of regular pot smokers and not one has ever claimed or related anything like you describe. Almost without exception they smoke as a way of socialising and it has a deadening effect. I've certain heard of heroin and hallucinogenic drugs in general as promoting creativity but not pot. A good number of these people were musically talented and the effect was that they did nothing and eventually bands split up. Of those bands I've noticed that the musicians who didn't do any illegal drugs were the ones who went on to have careers in music. I'm not generalising, just speaking as I find.
 
PB - most people i know smoke to expand their minds. And other substances too. Personally, i have had some of my greatest conversations when i was stoned. I remember them too, unlike nights when i was drunk ;)

AOB - just generally interested... how can you trust that the government really are doing what's best when, as you say, they won't ban alcohol or cigarettes because it makes money? If they could make money from cannabis do you think they would legalise it?
 
What a massive thread and no didnt read it all just going to leave my 2 cents here.

To me I dont consider caffein as a legal drug, yes its a drug but legal I consider to be tings your doc gives you like diazpan and similar. Some of which are hard to get off,

anyway I dont think anything should be banned like alcohol , thats not fair on people who responsibly drink and like a drink, yeah there always are abusers out there and people who casue way more trouble than someone stoned on a joint ! but I do think canabis should be legalised. I dont see many going made and smashing things up and brawling on the street while stoned.

Smoking I dont think should be banned all together, some like a smoke. I dont smoke any more and think that the smoking ban is ok the way it is I dont get bothered passing a smoker in the street.

I took a lot of mental crap when I was younger, nothing now not even a cup of tea! not in years. I did have health probs from it but they where very illegal drugs. I was also addicted to prescription ones to.I wouldnt wish the effects of coming off them on any one.

hate cannabis and the smell of it but had some good times smoking it. If I found out my son was at this I would kick his ass, my parents knew just didnt care. Was for attention and later for a good time. All grown up now :)
 
PB - most people i know smoke to expand their minds. And other substances too. Personally, i have had some of my greatest conversations when i was stoned. I remember them too, unlike nights when i was drunk ;)
/QUOTE]

Personally when I smoked I rather get stoned and talk crap than drunk and feel like crap. I had some great convos to. And some major giggles!
 
I smoke (cigarettes) and i actually like smoking. On the times ive given up it was because i had to and i knew it was temporary.

Caffeine doesnt even enter my mind when thinking "drugs", alcohol and cigarettes briefly, but my first thoughts when associated with the word "drugs" would be heroin,crack, cocaine etc.
 
When talking about the man raking in money on cigarettes don't forget it pays for a good part of the nhs. It's not like it's going on fancy goods for mps.
 
When talking about the man raking in money on cigarettes don't forget it pays for a good part of the nhs. It's not like it's going on fancy goods for mps.

That is exactly why it really grates on me that some hospitals won't treat smokers unless they give up. Lung transplants i can understand but they wouldn't do my mum's much neesed hysterectomy until she gave up smoking :growlmad:
 
Ah but smoking adds risk for things like general anaesthetic and reduces the chance if success of transplant and similar procedures. I don't think it's actually a moral judgement but a medical one.

Just been chatting with DH again who most of you will know is some authority of most drugs. I mentioned the mind opening experience thing you guys have put forward and he also disagrees. He says pot is great for artistic types who are naturally inclined to muse as it mellows out their worries and gives time to sit and just think. But he doesn't think it improves the outcome of such musings as they would otherwise be, given some time. He's reading Requiem for a Dream and used this as an example. The characters plan to sell drugs to earn money to escape their shitty lives and when they shoot up they dream of tha amazing art they're going to do or amazing care they'll open except they never draw it because it can't be as good as they imagine so they shoot up again instead and carry on dreaming. He reckons all drugs are the same, just in different ways. He thinks creative people will be creative anyway abs their drug of choice either gives them some time to be so without cares or physically changes their brains to affect their output. An example if which is Coleridge using laudanum which in high addiction gives night terrors upon which much of his poetry is based. He'd still be writing good poetry without it, probably just not s out night terror type stuff.
 
AOB - i think you have missed my point entirely. You said yourself you think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal (which, for the last time, are drugs!!!) but then say the law doesn't need to be changed? The whole issue i have is that the gov seem to be pretending to look after us by making certain drugs illegal, whilst letting us pump our bodies full of toxins from other, legal - but still very much harmful - drugs. Personally I would just quite like the hypocricy to end and for them to pick one side of the fence instead of sitting on it.

It is saddening to see that those people who campaigned to get laws changed are not respected at all by some people. I believe we should all be extremely thankful for what happened in the past, 2010 wouldn't be the same without it.

I dont really get that either. alcohol and tobacco are drugs :shrug: thats fact. people cant choose to 'believe' something is not a drug. they are by definition, substances that affect the functioning of the mind and body, hence are drugs.

it is extremely sad though that for the sake of the money it brings in tht alcohol and tobacco remain legal - i mean what other reason could there be for not making them illegal? its madness!

I do think alcohol and cigs are drugs ............. because they are. But, i don't believe they are as dangerous as drugs. I do think cigs should be illegal, definately. Alcohol, i'm not too sure as i hardly drink so don't really have an opinion on it.

Again, i don't think the law should be changed in relation to the drugs that are illegal now. I would like to see cigs made illegal though.

Dopeyjopey, i agree with you that they need to make their minds up. The reason why cigs aren't illegal is because they make so much money out of them!

your language seems to suggest that you don't think they are drugs as you said "I don't believe they're as dangerous as drugs" But they are drugs. SO um... :shrug:

As for not having an opinion on alcohol as you hardly drink it... you seem to have an opinion on cannabis and you don't seem to take that either.

I would suggest you're softer on alcohol because you do occasionally partake in it and therefore don't consider it as harmful although it is for many other people.

Being pedantic yes alcohol and cigarettes are 'drugs' but to me real drugs are the illegal ones, cannibis, coke, heroin etc, which is why they are illegal. At the end of the day, they are ALL drugs but my personal belief is that cigarettes and alcohol are the lesser evil. My opinion is not wrong, it's just what i think.

Yes i have an opinion on cannibis and it's because i personally believe drugs (the illegal ones's ;) to makes that clear yet again) should be avoided, and so do the government and health professionals.

I have smoked weed many times, i went through a bad patch after being raped and it did me no good. I didn't react very well to weed. I just don't believe people should cosume drugs. And i would have said that before i had taken weed myself. The current drugs that are illegal should stay illegal, alcohol and cigarettes are the lesser evil in my opinion.

You do know that people who shoot heroine make it from legal drugs right? Just curious here, as the "Good,Legal" drugs make the bad ones, very easily...
 
PP I suspect smokers are hoping our new 'liberal' government will lighten the legislation. Don't forget the tax has been hugely increased on cigarettes to try and stop people smoking. Same as on alcohol and this ties in with the conversations about minimum pricing on alcohol. Not sure how I feel about that one. Good to take measures to reduce drinking but why should rich people be the only ones who can drink?

Redpoppy from your description of cannabis users I suspect you're giving them as much more credit as some on the thread are taking. I've known an awful lot of regular pot smokers and not one has ever claimed or related anything like you describe. Almost without exception they smoke as a way of socialising and it has a deadening effect. I've certain heard of heroin and hallucinogenic drugs in general as promoting creativity but not pot. A good number of these people were musically talented and the effect was that they did nothing and eventually bands split up. Of those bands I've noticed that the musicians who didn't do any illegal drugs were the ones who went on to have careers in music. I'm not generalising, just speaking as I find.

Many musicians got decidedly better and more creative after taking drugs in the 60s. In fact drugs in the 60s can be held responsible for whole types of innovation in music. To deny this I think is naive. I'm not saying it gave them talent but it did give them OOMPH and helped their creativity reach new heights. Some music (anything psychedlic including psy trance, acid rock) by it's very name is saying it is inspired by drugs. I don't know if we would have had people experimenting with sounds the way they did or with vocals without those influences. I don't think cubism would have become a movement without some drug influence. Because when Picasso made some of those paintings they were directly about the influence of opium on his vision/imagination.

As for people smoking to get stoned, I'm sure they exist but cannabis DOES make you hear more intrinsically, see more questioningly, feel all your senses, (smell, touch and sadly especially taste! haha!) MORE. It's a very sensory drug. And I don't know if you're just meeting the wrong people but I've only ever met two people who do not smoke in this way and both times I felt the people were smoking out of either habit or for no reason. They weren't really experiencing the drug. Drugs for centuries have been used in a spiritual light in tribes. As I said, many people do drugs for "getting wasted" but even in the modern day you have conscientious rastafari who respect cannabis and use it as part of their religion. Part of their religious practice is to smoke pot and talk about important social issues. (I knoe there are probably rastafari who don't respect the drug and misuse it too.)

As for social lubrication, pot won't make you more likely to dance or let go of your inhibitions because it loosens you up but over time it may if taken by the right mind help you question why you have certain inhibitions etc. I realise it has different effects but if as many people were smoking pot on a weekend as drinking alcohol (say as they do in the cafe in Holland) then stones people would NOT be littering the pavements on the floor looking for a fight. Therefore to say drugs can have unpredictable effects is fine but to deny they mostly have similar effects is denying a reality.

On a related note Rastafari find it offensive to call it weed and since i heard that I try never to do so as it adds to the brainwashing, it is a herb and should be treated as such.

Also, if the pot smokers you know experience a deadening effect they're smoking really BAAAAAAD pot. Tell them to grow it naturally or find a different supplier! :thumbup:

Good pot has the perfect balance of THC and cannibinoids (however that's spelled!) so won't make people paranoid or make them fall asleep. And almost any drug on earth is made more dangerous or antisocial because people taking them tend to mix with alcohol. Again that's part of the education and brainwashing. People will KNOW not to mix their drugs as it can cause a dangerous mix but people forget that alcohol is a drug too and so every weekend when MASSES upon MASSES of "yoof" hit the clubs to get high on MDMA there's always that percentage of them that you have to walk around near the loos because they're vomiting their guts out usually on the floor :nope: because they thought having alcohol with it would be fine. :dohh:

Also, requiem for a dream?!?! Are you fricking kidding me? :wacko: Its the most anti drug thing out there and it's not about drugs its about addiction (to drugs) in my opinion. I'm sorry but me and your authority on drugs DH (who I imagine is lovely!:flower:) will have to fiercely disagree.

Many pieces or art are MADE to help non drug takers see the sights of wonder drug takers have seen. MANY pieces of music are MADE to mimic the effects drugs can have on sound. I doubt he could deny that? Cubism people! Cubism! :blush:

I would class the creative drugs as the mind expanding ones: pot, LSD, mushrooms, opium. I'm not saying these are good or bad but saying the effects would be mind expanding as opposed to:

Mood enhancing drugs: MDMA, cocaine, heroine, crack, alcohol.

The mood enhancers make you happy or energetic or confident or feel safe etc.

The mind expanders do what is says on the tin.

All have their risks.
 
Its the legal prescription drugs people can easily become addicted to, and once popping & snorting them gets old, they begin to search for a faster high, aka shooting it. You cant make heroine to shoot without all our legal ones...
 
Ah but smoking adds risk for things like general anaesthetic and reduces the chance if success of transplant and similar procedures. I don't think it's actually a moral judgement but a medical one.

Just been chatting with DH again who most of you will know is some authority of most drugs. I mentioned the mind opening experience thing you guys have put forward and he also disagrees. He says pot is great for artistic types who are naturally inclined to muse as it mellows out their worries and gives time to sit and just think. But he doesn't think it improves the outcome of such musings as they would otherwise be, given some time. He's reading Requiem for a Dream and used this as an example. The characters plan to sell drugs to earn money to escape their shitty lives and when they shoot up they dream of tha amazing art they're going to do or amazing care they'll open except they never draw it because it can't be as good as they imagine so they shoot up again instead and carry on dreaming. He reckons all drugs are the same, just in different ways. He thinks creative people will be creative anyway abs their drug of choice either gives them some time to be so without cares or physically changes their brains to affect their output. An example if which is Coleridge using laudanum which in high addiction gives night terrors upon which much of his poetry is based. He'd still be writing good poetry without it, probably just not s out night terror type stuff.

Sorry, I just wanted to add that this sentence is an example of the "myth of the artist" which is something I studied at university. It is the myth that artists are somehow elevated but a little mad. Like creativity lends people to insanity instead of just realising that intelligence in any sphere, be it science, art, maths, cooking, design, whatever, leads to creativity and in no way is that necessarily linked to anxieties or worries or nervousness or any of those things which make us mentally unwell. We as a society LOVE those crazy stories about creative people and almost expect and reward that behaviour.
 
AOB - i think you have missed my point entirely. You said yourself you think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal (which, for the last time, are drugs!!!) but then say the law doesn't need to be changed? The whole issue i have is that the gov seem to be pretending to look after us by making certain drugs illegal, whilst letting us pump our bodies full of toxins from other, legal - but still very much harmful - drugs. Personally I would just quite like the hypocricy to end and for them to pick one side of the fence instead of sitting on it.

It is saddening to see that those people who campaigned to get laws changed are not respected at all by some people. I believe we should all be extremely thankful for what happened in the past, 2010 wouldn't be the same without it.

I dont really get that either. alcohol and tobacco are drugs :shrug: thats fact. people cant choose to 'believe' something is not a drug. they are by definition, substances that affect the functioning of the mind and body, hence are drugs.

it is extremely sad though that for the sake of the money it brings in tht alcohol and tobacco remain legal - i mean what other reason could there be for not making them illegal? its madness!

I do think alcohol and cigs are drugs ............. because they are. But, i don't believe they are as dangerous as drugs. I do think cigs should be illegal, definately. Alcohol, i'm not too sure as i hardly drink so don't really have an opinion on it.

Again, i don't think the law should be changed in relation to the drugs that are illegal now. I would like to see cigs made illegal though.

Dopeyjopey, i agree with you that they need to make their minds up. The reason why cigs aren't illegal is because they make so much money out of them!

your language seems to suggest that you don't think they are drugs as you said "I don't believe they're as dangerous as drugs" But they are drugs. SO um... :shrug:

As for not having an opinion on alcohol as you hardly drink it... you seem to have an opinion on cannabis and you don't seem to take that either.

I would suggest you're softer on alcohol because you do occasionally partake in it and therefore don't consider it as harmful although it is for many other people.

Being pedantic yes alcohol and cigarettes are 'drugs' but to me real drugs are the illegal ones, cannibis, coke, heroin etc, which is why they are illegal. At the end of the day, they are ALL drugs but my personal belief is that cigarettes and alcohol are the lesser evil. My opinion is not wrong, it's just what i think.

Yes i have an opinion on cannibis and it's because i personally believe drugs (the illegal ones's ;) to makes that clear yet again) should be avoided, and so do the government and health professionals.

I have smoked weed many times, i went through a bad patch after being raped and it did me no good. I didn't react very well to weed. I just don't believe people should cosume drugs. And i would have said that before i had taken weed myself. The current drugs that are illegal should stay illegal, alcohol and cigarettes are the lesser evil in my opinion.

What I don't understand is how you think cigarettes and alcohol are of the "lesser evil" yet they kill so many people every year. Marijuana hasn't caused any deaths. If the health professionals think pot should be avoided then they wouldn't be prescribing them.

I feel you are dancing around in a circle. You have no new points to make about this except..."I think its bad" and "My government says No No" this IMO is very naive.

I'm sorry to hear about that rough patch in your life.

I have smoked pot for 4 years, and not once have I become irate and uncontrollable. (Minus the uncontrollable laughter or munchies!) I can tell you all the benefits and research until I'm blue in the face, but your gonna have your own opinion and make your own decisions about mary jane. I think you just need to learn to accept some people are different and we can't all be as perfect as you. :wacko:
 
Lol I can't speak for other countries. The majority don't smoke I don't think but that falls into the challenge if change. We've got a public building smoking ban now and was fought long and hard for. It's a positive step forward. I must say though with a tobacco ban a lot of pot smokers would have trouble!

I have to say, the ban on smoking in public buildings is a wonderful thing, and has made going out a far more pleasant experience! No more sitting in a pub feeling ill :sick: If only there was also a ban on huddling around the entrance to EVERY public building smoking too! If the government won't go as far as to make smoking illegal, people should at least be confined to their own homes to do it whilst (hopefully) not sharing the horrible smell and after effects with everyone else!

Actualy your not supposed to be near a doorway, your supposed to be a minimum of 14 feet away from any public entrance or doorway to a public building, its another one of those laws that get looked over.
Same as you can only stand under a shelter to smoke if it has 50% or less wall coverage ie 2 walls or sides, if it has 3 its illegal
 
I agree, out of the many people I have known/know who smoke pot, I have never seen one who was out of control or aggitated etc... from it. It almost seems impossible to me, lol... the temperment of people high on pot is usually laid back, relaxed or giggly. Not saying it is impossible, but to me, seems close to it.
 
here no smoking in any building, restaraunt, pub etc. No smoking in doorways or sometimes the entire property (city and provincial). And it is illegal to smoke in a vehicle with children.
 
here no smoking in any building, restaraunt, pub etc. No smoking in doorways or sometimes the entire property (city and provincial). And it is illegal to smoke in a vehicle with children.

I like the smoking laws we have. I remember in high school being able to smoke all through the mall and in restaraunts,and even when I smoked I still didnt like it inside places, especially public!
 

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