Illegal drugs - worse than legal ones?

[smokey]

I agree, out of the many people I have known/know who smoke pot, I have never seen one who was out of control or aggitated etc... from it. It almost seems impossible to me, lol... the temperment of people high on pot is usually laid back, relaxed or giggly. Not saying it is impossible, but to me, seems close to it.

Yes id say a vast magority are relaxed and laid back on it but not all, iv seen more then my fair share of people go off on one and worse on it.
As with most things its all to do with chemical ballances and some brains just can not take it.
Im one of them, I got worse the longer it went on, my body and brain just completly rejected to "good feelings" I was told others got with it, my heart would race so fast, I got severely dehydrated within minutes, I would try tearing my hair out and get panic attacks, most of the time I threw up, got severe headaches and most times would then pass out.
The only way I can describe it was as if my brain didnt want to let go and decided to fight the high all of this was normaly with completly freaking out, sitting huddled in a corner sobbing and rocking.

And I have seen this sort of behavour in alot of other people as well.
I just find it realy disturbing when people assume just because it hasnt happen thias way for them that it doesnt happen to anyone like this, different people have different reactions to things and thats when deaths can happen even with weed.

 

[Eve]

I agree, out of the many people I have known/know who smoke pot, I have never seen one who was out of control or aggitated etc... from it. It almost seems impossible to me, lol... the temperment of people high on pot is usually laid back, relaxed or giggly. Not saying it is impossible, but to me, seems close to it.

Yes id say a vast magority are relaxed and laid back on it but not all, iv seen more then my fair share of people go off on one and worse on it.
As with most things its all to do with chemical ballances and some brains just can not take it.
Im one of them, I got worse the longer it went on, my body and brain just completly rejected to "good feelings" I was told others got with it, my heart would race so fast, I got severely dehydrated within minutes, I would try tearing my hair out and get panic attacks, most of the time I threw up, got severe headaches and most times would then pass out.
The only way I can describe it was as if my brain didnt want to let go and decided to fight the high all of this was normaly with completly freaking out, sitting huddled in a corner sobbing and rocking.

And I have seen this sort of behavour in alot of other people as well.
I just find it realy disturbing when people assume just because it hasnt happen thias way for them that it doesnt happen to anyone like this, different people have different reactions to things and thats when deaths can happen even with weed.

Oh wow, why did you keep smoking it if it made you feel so bad?

To clarify, I said out of control or aggitated. Ive seen people do the funky chicken, gap out, be paranid while high, but I havent seem people do anything aggresive that they wouldnt do sober... I smoked it once and it was laced with Cocaine and other chemicals and had a severe reaction to it, ended up vommiting and having siezures right in McDonalds, was taken by paramedics to the local hospital where they pumped my stomach(didnt know what I had taken) did blood work, put me on IVs and called my mom... I was close to dying that day and without certain medication given to me, I wouldnt have made it. I had the bad thing happen to me, but if I would have smoked regular non laced marijuana, I wouldnt have been so ill. I said I wasnt saying it didnt happen, just to me, I have never seen it. It doesnt change my opinion on marijuana though, I still think its no where near as bad as alcohol and cigs... I think it should be under the same laws etc...

That is why I will speak to my kids about drugs when the time comes, and explain I wouldnt want them to do it, wouldnt encourage it and they will be in shit if I catch them doing it, but also want them to know if they choose to do it, to be safe and smart about it... like sex iykwim? Children need educated on it, not just its bad, dont do it.

 

[smokey]

Basicly as lousy an exscuse as it is I did it and kept doing it because of my brother.
We where raised seperatly (he was raised by our grandparents) and I never had a close relationship with him and I stupidly thought it was a way of being excepted by him, I always idolised him and pretty much would have done anything to have him at least like me.
I eventualy realised he was a complete tosser who didnt give a crap about me or what happened to me and pretty much only ever had me around to scrounge money off me or to show me up in front of his mates.
It was him that supplied anything I tried and magority of it was most likely unclean, he was a dealer and I havnt had anything to do with him for about 5 years now havnt heard from him or have a clue where he is none of the family has( and very little for about 6 years before that) and I am so much better off for it.
He gave me my first joint when I was 11, that shows how little he cared for me, I didnt always have the same reaction some where very errrrr interesting but as with any drug unless you grow it yourself you cant be 100% sure what it is mixed with.
I have no problem with others that want to smoke it, their life, their bodies they can do what they want I realy dont care, everyone need to learn for themselves what they are willing to do.
I dont even realy care about the whole law breaking side of it, again as long as its not hurting me or my family I just dont care what others want to do.
Its just the whole weed cant kill part that I have a problem with.

 

[rubixcyoob.]

Not read through the whole thread but just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I do agree with the likes of heroin, crystal meth, crack, coke, LSD, E's etc. being illegal. They're hardcore, very addictive and can lead to numerous fatalities.

With smoking, caffine and drinking it blurs the issue however. Exceptionally large amounts of each of the three mentioned can kill you, yes, however, one glass of wine, one cigarette, one caffine pill will not - whereas, one E can kill you flat out. I think that's the distinction for me.

As for the likes of weed, everyone I know, including myself at times has never gotten anything other than super cozy, watching films, eating and then sleeping. Yes, weed can be used for positives - arthritis, MS, anorexia etc. but it does have it's negatives if you have an addictive personality. The latter which can be said in relation to cigarettes, alcohol and caffine. If those three taken in moderation are okay, and weed take in moderation is okay, I say they are on par with each other.
With those it is down to the individual how they will react. Everyone knows excessive smoking and drinking etc. is bad for you - the same with weed. Everyone knows one puff of a fag won't drop you dead, neither will a toke of a joint.

And as someone said previously, you cannot justify banning alcohol because it makes people aggressive - this is stereotyping and unfair for those who have a little drink now and again to relax, chat away, be happy and have a good time - no trouble. People should just know themselves what they can handle, not expect the government to make it easier for them.

 

[Eve]

Basicly as lousy an exscuse as it is I did it and kept doing it because of my brother.
We where raised seperatly (he was raised by our grandparents) and I never had a close relationship with him and I stupidly thought it was a way of being excepted by him, I always idolised him and pretty much would have done anything to have him at least like me.
I eventualy realised he was a complete tosser who didnt give a crap about me or what happened to me and pretty much only ever had me around to scrounge money off me or to show me up in front of his mates.
It was him that supplied anything I tried and magority of it was most likely unclean, he was a dealer and I havnt had anything to do with him for about 5 years now havnt heard from him or have a clue where he is none of the family has( and very little for about 6 years before that) and I am so much better off for it.
He gave me my first joint when I was 11, that shows how little he cared for me, I didnt always have the same reaction some where very errrrr interesting but as with any drug unless you grow it yourself you cant be 100% sure what it is mixed with.
I have no problem with others that want to smoke it, their life, their bodies they can do what they want I realy dont care, everyone need to learn for themselves what they are willing to do.
I dont even realy care about the whole law breaking side of it, again as long as its not hurting me or my family I just dont care what others want to do.
Its just the whole weed cant kill part that I have a problem with.

Oh I'm sorry to hear about your brother I dont think its okay to introduce drugs of any kind to anyone.

I think what people are trying to say, myself included is marijuana itself doesn't kill. If I sat here growing my own and smoking it, it wouldn't be very harmful to my overall health. Yes, the other chemicals that can be added can kill, and no I don't think that is okay. I do not take drugs lightly at all. My OH smokes it, and I would prefer he didn't, but I don't think it's bad he does. He knows where his comes from etc, so I have no worries that he will get something bad... I just find it weird smoking is legal and so is alcohol when they take so many more lives compared to marijuana.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Not read through the whole thread but just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I do agree with the likes of heroin, crystal meth, crack, coke, LSD, E's etc. being illegal. They're hardcore, very addictive and can lead to numerous fatalities.

With smoking, caffine and drinking it blurs the issue however. Exceptionally large amounts of each of the three mentioned can kill you, yes, however, one glass of wine, one cigarette, one caffine pill will not - whereas, one E can kill you flat out. I think that's the distinction for me.

As for the likes of weed, everyone I know, including myself at times has never gotten anything other than super cozy, watching films, eating and then sleeping. Yes, weed can be used for positives - arthritis, MS, anorexia etc. but it does have it's negatives if you have an addictive personality. The latter which can be said in relation to cigarettes, alcohol and caffine. If those three taken in moderation are okay, and weed take in moderation is okay, I say they are on par with each other.
With those it is down to the individual how they will react. Everyone knows excessive smoking and drinking etc. is bad for you - the same with weed. Everyone knows one puff of a fag won't drop you dead, neither will a toke of a joint.

And as someone said previously, you cannot justify banning alcohol because it makes people aggressive - this is stereotyping and unfair for those who have a little drink now and again to relax, chat away, be happy and have a good time - no trouble. People should just know themselves what they can handle, not expect the government to make it easier for them.

I agree with most of your points but just wanted to clarify:

'E' when sold as a pill can be dangerous, however pure MDMA is not likely to kill unless there is an existing heart condition (a bit like drinking when you have liver damage) or if a user drinks too much/not enough water. It is also not very addictive (certainly no more so than alcohol).

LSD is not addictive at all. There has only ever been one (unconfirmed) reported death due to LSD but the user injected at least 10 times the usual dose. Of course, accidents and mental health deaths are not included there.

 

[PeanutBean]

I'm on my phone so please bear with me in case this is long and hard to read!
Mum2j&kx2 I'm very confused about your statement that heroin is made from legal drugs. What do you mean? Also I don't think anyone on here has said that legal equals good. Legal drugs come with restrictions and legislation abs safeguards which controls use but that doesn't mean anyone thinks the drugs themselves are good or bad, they're just drugs.

Red poppy this will take a while! Lol That musicians got better as a consequence of taking drugs in entirely a matter of opinion. I think Picasso was rubbish and I don't like any of the modern drugs inspired music.

I'm not arguing about how drugs might be used in other cultures I don't know about. I only know about my own culture and how they are used here and how I imagine they would be used if legalised.

I still think that it's not correct that most people who smoke pot don't do do to not be stoned. You won't be able to convince me otherwise. As I said my personal experience of about 17 years in two cities with a wide range of people has pointed in one direction only. I'm not saying people don't get the experience you describe, just that the majority are not out for it. Really your description is positively religious and I really think tour natural mindset and of course the sort of people you will enjoy spending time with is far more likely to be the reason for your experience. It's just another angle of the individual having different reactions.

On that note I think it's also very likely that the reason most people who smoke ppt are relaxed (and agree they are) is probably a direct consequence of filtering out bad reaction by those people not smoking again. Maybe this would happen if it were legal and all would be well, or maybe not.

A large portion of people I've known have grown their own pot. No difference. Perhaps my choice of the word deadening wasn't very good and it's speaking from and external perspective.

Gonna post and do another as it's a pain scrolling down!

 

[PeanutBean]

DH only mentioned the book as an example in the context of our discussion. I only have personal experience of pot but DH has a lot of experience with most drugs over a fairly long period of time.

I have no idea what cubism is.

I resent your bit about the 'myth of the artist'. DH is an artist, I reckon he knows how it is. I never said anything about elevated or crazy, I said DH said artists like and need time to think. Interestingly he's found he's been far more productive since not sitting around smoking pot.

 

[redpoppy]

I'm on my phone so please bear with me in case this is long and hard to read!
Mum2j&kx2 I'm very confused about your statement that heroin is made from legal drugs. What do you mean? Also I don't think anyone on here has said that legal equals good. Legal drugs come with restrictions and legislation abs safeguards which controls use but that doesn't mean anyone thinks the drugs themselves are good or bad, they're just drugs.

Red poppy this will take a while! Lol That musicians got better as a consequence of taking drugs in entirely a matter of opinion. I think Picasso was rubbish and I don't like any of the modern drugs inspired music.

I'm not arguing about how drugs might be used in other cultures I don't know about. I only know about my own culture and how they are used here and how I imagine they would be used if legalised.

I still think that it's not correct that most people who smoke pot don't do do to not be stoned. You won't be able to convince me otherwise. As I said my personal experience of about 17 years in two cities with a wide range of people has pointed in one direction only. I'm not saying people don't get the experience you describe, just that the majority are not out for it. Really your description is positively religious and I really think tour natural mindset and of course the sort of people you will enjoy spending time with is far more likely to be the reason for your experience. It's just another angle of the individual having different reactions.

On that note I think it's also very likely that the reason most people who smoke ppt are relaxed (and agree they are) is probably a direct consequence of filtering out bad reaction by those people not smoking again. Maybe this would happen if it were legal and all would be well, or maybe not.

A large portion of people I've known have grown their own pot. No difference. Perhaps my choice of the word deadening wasn't very good and it's speaking from and external perspective.

Gonna post and do another as it's a pain scrolling down!

Not religious at all. Some people may find TV an enlightening and educational thing. Others find it a thing to waste time and something which prevents them form thinking too much. Maybe this better explains what I am saying? Will answer next on in another post too.

 

[Dragonfly]

Dont know whats in herion but i know that meth has ingredients of a decongestant in it and some are made from legal drugs, some are bulked up to like coke, diazpan usually in that. I seen that on tv. And some films to regarding the meth.

Drugs effect people in different ways to, I seen some are ok after,so me are ok at the time but later they arnt so good so their mental state has to be taken into it also. I seen some poeple still recovering from the effects of drugs they took years ago and they where not even addicts yet i know some that took way more and arnt like that.

This isnt some sort of medical findings just what I have seen over the years.

 

[PeanutBean]

That's the crux of the matter for me dragonfly. Without being able to predict how people will be if it were legalised and so open to lots of people who wouldn't normally try it I would rather not rock the boat.

 

[Dragonfly]

Indeed. Although in Amsterdam its perfectly ok over there but also very different designated areas etc , I think where i live if it where legal more poeple would abuse it and try it but thats kinda of a catch 22 also. Some use it for medication to, I know a woman with MS it helped a lot.

 

[PeanutBean]

I don't think we can learn so much from the Netherlands and the likes. Our culture is just so different in the first place that our population reactions are likely to be as well.

 

[Dragonfly]

I agree with you there it is a very different place but I like it there, not because of drugs I dont do that but I did smoke it over there a few times when visiting. It woudlnt work here what they have done there unfortunately.

 

[PeanutBean]

No I think most times we have to find our own ways of doing things. Other cultures all have there good and bad points too. We'd love to live in Japan but the culture there includes women not working once they're married, I couldn't abide such endemic sexism.

 

[redpoppy]

DH only mentioned the book as an example in the context of our discussion. I only have personal experience of pot but DH has a lot of experience with most drugs over a fairly long period of time.

I have no idea what cubism is.

I resent your bit about the 'myth of the artist'. DH is an artist, I reckon he knows how it is. I never said anything about elevated or crazy, I said DH said artists like and need time to think. Interestingly he's found he's been far more productive since not sitting around smoking pot.

COme on PB! Don't resent me. I just always say it as I see it but I know I see it wrong sometimes. All it needs is clarification. No offence needed. It's not that big a deal.

I'm an artist too. So maybe I know how it is too? That why we were studying the myth of the artist. I wasn't saying YOU said things about elevated or crazy, that's what we studied but you did say things along the lines of artistic types benefiting because it helps calm their worrying or something along those lines. I don't think artistic types are very different from anyone else.

But people can value creativity and be inclined to it. Painting/sculpting etc. doesn't make you creative, it's what you do with it or with ANYTHING that does right? Some painters paint but are the least creative people on the planet.

As a side note I don't think pot is AT ALL helpful for getting jobs done most of the time although I have known the odd people to work better and someone VERY oddly and strangely studied and sat exams better whilst high. But it can help inspire things which lead people to be more creative.

It isn't odd to describe pot as something which can lead to a change of consciousness, or has psychoactive qualities.

From a quick google search on these terms the following from wiki (which I know isn't the greatest source of all time but it's not bad either)

The psychoactive effects of cannabis, known as a "high", are subjective and can vary based on the individual and the method of use. Some effects may include an altered state of consciousness, euphoria, feelings of well-being, relaxation or stress reduction, increased appreciation of humor, music or art, joviality, metacognition and introspection, enhanced recollection (episodic memory), increased sensuality, increased awareness of sensation, increased libido, creative or philosophical thinking, disruption of linear memory and paranoia or anxiety.

Cannabis also produces many subjective effects, such as greater enjoyment of food taste and aroma, an enhanced enjoyment of music and comedy, and marked distortions in the perception of time and space (where experiencing an up rush of ideas from the bank of long-term memory can create the subjective impression of long elapsed time, while a clock reveals that only a short time has passed). At higher doses, effects can include altered body image, auditory and/or visual illusions, and ataxia from selective impairment of polysynaptic reflexes. In some cases, cannabis can lead to depersonalization[3][4] and derealization;[5] such effects are most often considered desirable, but have the potential to induce extreme anxiety and paranoia in some unaccustomed users.

 

[redpoppy]

And I'd like to go back to a point I made which made a lot of sense to me (well it would wouldn't it)

By decriminalising as opposed to legalising we simply take away the injustice in my eyes.

If someone is dangerous whether on cannabis or not and has been violent or broken the law then they need to be arrested and have legal proceedings take place.

If someone is ADDICTED to ANY drug or anything which impedes their life and judgement (including the legal drugs) then surely they need help and shouldn't we be a caring society that offers it to them instead of being harsh no matter how their lives lead them to that place (abuse, trauma, mental health problems) and just shipping them off to prison?

And if someone is not a danger, is not addicted but a responsible adult who uses recreationally without harming anyone, surely they don't deserve to be locked up?

The issue is not what the law is now, it's about justice and fairness in society without having civil liberties stripped. It's about what we would like society to be and what it should be.

 

[PeanutBean]

When I said worries I didn't mean in some kind of mental illness way, just the general cares of life.

As a none creative person I think creative people are TOTALLY different!

I didn't say it was odd to describe pot as psychoactive, I guess you're referring to my comments of your descriptions of the experience? Of course it's psychoactive but that says nothing of how people experience that psychoactivity. I just think you are as biased to the positive aspects as others on here are to the negative. I suspect that if the population were able to take it freely we'd find a broad spectrum of responses with some middle ground the most common.

Your person who sat exams well when high is interesting, I would place my bets on context dependent memory. In fact I think I recall a psychology study to that effect - if you do drugs when learning/revising you'll most likely perform better doing them in exams too. Of course that says nothing of whether or not not doing drugs at any of those times would give better results or not when compared to the drug exposed results.

I just got felt you were being a bit patronising about my DH's life experiences. If you didn't mean it that way that's fine. I've no intention of falling out with people over a debate topic that doesn't even particularly affect me! Believe me as a scientist I know all about ridiculous occupational stereotypes!

 

[redpoppy]

When I said worries I didn't mean in some kind of mental illness way, just the general cares of life.

As a none creative person I think creative people are TOTALLY different!

I didn't say it was odd to describe pot as psychoactive, I guess you're referring to my comments of your descriptions of the experience? Of course it's psychoactive but that says nothing of how people experience that psychoactivity. I just think you are as biased to the positive aspects as others on here are to the negative. I suspect that if the population were able to take it wexwohkd find a broad spectrum of responses with some middle ground the most common.

Your person who sat exams well when high is interesting, I would place my bets on context dependent memory. In fact I think I recall a psychology study to that effect - if you do drugs when learning/revising you'll most likely perform better doing them in exams too. Of course that says nothing of whether or not not doing drugs at any of those times would give better results or not when compared to the drug exposed results.

I just got felt you were being a bit patronising about my DH's life experiences. If you didn't mean it that way that's fine. I've no intention of falling out with people over a debate topic that doesn't even particularly affect me! Believe me as a scientist I know all about ridiculous occupational stereotypes!

As for the positives. I pointed out the positives in reaction to BBs post about banning all drugs and getting on with life. I didn't say all people experience only the positives. It was brought up because I wanted to point out that some people don't just do cannabis to get wasted. To feel disassociated. To forget. To pass time by blowing their minds. Many people do it and many prefer it to alcohol because it alters their mind. It makes them see things differently. It makes them question things which they took for granted. It helps them understand and appreciate their senses more than they ever could have done without it.

Alcohol can rarely lead to insightful thoughts and conversations as a person gets more and more drunk. As anyone sober in a pub near 11pm on a friday night can testify. Very often people just become increasingly self involved and repeat themselves over and over again with little insight or reflection. Even people who drink can testify that they start warbling on and on about the same thing over and over again. They find it funny. Which it is. So long as you're no the one stuck with the drunk guy in the corner telling you how much he needs to find a new girlfriend.

But being sober in a group of smokers, some may get sleepy but many start to come alive in the conversation as time goes on. People question their usual way of seeing, hearing and experiencing life and conversation can become genuinely philosophical. Probably less so if people are drinking as well as taking cannabis.

Not everyone but some people. And there is a whole religion that recognises cannabis' ability to do that and so it is encouraged to consume it and reflect, to discuss and to use it to it's full benefit. It's not my religion. And I'm sure it may be misused by adherents to that religion.

This all doesn't mean it has no harm, but it would be quite funny to try and get the same type of benefit from a roomful of drunk people.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

RP, i missed your comment about decriminalising. I agree that wouls be a good thing to do, if it were up to me i would probably decriminalise a number of illegal drugs. Overall people need educating about the effects and need to be able to seek advice without the fear of getting into trouble. The example of paramedics not being able to treat patients correctly as they won't openly admit to drug abuse springs to mind.

I may get some time on the PC later to write out a proper response for once!