Illegal drugs - worse than legal ones?

I don't know much about bipolar as I've never studied it but I think it's more a chemical imbalance. I think a significant number of people would be diagnosed with schizophrenia who wouldn't have the low brain weight but I'd argue then their condition is actually something different even if it looks the same. This is the biggest problem in mental health diagnosis - it's all done of the symptoms and very few conditions actually have an identifiable cause. Look at the news today - 10% of ADHD sufferers have some genetic basis, so 90% don't. Either the discovery about the genes is a red herring, a coincidence or there are different conditions that all look like ADHD.
 
I do not agree with people thinking they are above the law and when you break the law it implies just that to me.

I can understand being young and experimenting particularly when peer pressure is rife, but as an adult to willing break the law time and time again, with respect to using drugs.. I have a problem with that :shrug:

But what is your issue? Is it that they are breaking the law and hence you feel all laws no matter what they say are our moral guide OR do you have an issue with drug use itself whether it is legal or not?

And hence when you are in countries where drug use is not illegal you are fine with it. Or when you are in countries where the law is harsh and immoral you are fine with that? :shrug:
 
I do not agree with people thinking they are above the law and when you break the law it implies just that to me.

I can understand being young and experimenting particularly when peer pressure is rife, but as an adult to willing break the law time and time again, with respect to using drugs.. I have a problem with that :shrug:

But what is your issue? Is it that they are breaking the law and hence you feel all laws no matter what they say are our moral guide OR do you have an issue with drug use itself whether it is legal or not?

And hence when you are in countries where drug use is not illegal you are fine with it. Or when you are in countries where the law is harsh and immoral you are fine with that? :shrug:

See that I cannot comment on as I have grew up in this country and thus have been influenced accordingly by this countries laws and noone elses. how could i possibly comment on that? If you are referring to me perhaps moving - would I still have a problem? - then yes I would because as I said I have grown up in this country and cannabis is illegal here.

I dont think all laws are a moral guide but the laws of a country should be adhered to otherwise where do you draw the line with what is acceptable? Like I said on another thread, If i came on here and stated id been drinking and driving but not hurt anyone and because noone was hurt I intended to do it again - would that be ok? Just because I *think* its ok, regardless of the risks involved? If you are under the influence of drugs anything can happen - you can't control how your body accepts a drug or reacts to it. Same as someone who has drank for years can't say for sure how they would react on a drink or two :shrug: Its the same principal.

Im exhausted tonight so excuse me if I am babbling but hope you get my point..
 
I just cant understand why people think alcohol is ok and "better for you" and marijuana is not?

The only reason its illegal is due to taxing. :S
 
I just cant understand why people think alcohol is ok and "better for you" and marijuana is not?

The only reason its illegal is due to taxing. :S

I dont think anyone has said drinking alchol is better,unless i have missed a post
 
I just cant understand why people think alcohol is ok and "better for you" and marijuana is not?

The only reason its illegal is due to taxing. :S

I dont think anyone has said drinking alchol is better,unless i have missed a post

It's just a common point of view. Alcohol is by far more dangerous (physically) than cannabis but it is more acceptable to Joe Bloggs because it is legal.
 
I don't know much about bipolar as I've never studied it but I think it's more a chemical imbalance. I think a significant number of people would be diagnosed with schizophrenia who wouldn't have the low brain weight but I'd argue then their condition is actually something different even if it looks the same. This is the biggest problem in mental health diagnosis - it's all done of the symptoms and very few conditions actually have an identifiable cause. Look at the news today - 10% of ADHD sufferers have some genetic basis, so 90% don't. Either the discovery about the genes is a red herring, a coincidence or there are different conditions that all look like ADHD.

Well that's another debate i would be interested in, but i'm not starting it :rofl: when i was younger it was just a naughty kid (not right) but now the kids who are just naughty gey diagnosed ADHD. In my view things like that are really overdiagnosed and kids are put on ritalin (also used recreationally i believe) when behavioural therapy could do the trick.
 
I just cant understand why people think alcohol is ok and "better for you" and marijuana is not?

The only reason its illegal is due to taxing. :S

I dont think anyone has said drinking alchol is better,unless i have missed a post

It's just a common point of view. Alcohol is by far more dangerous (physically) than cannabis but it is more acceptable to Joe Bloggs because it is legal.

But that is perhaps the only reason people view alcohol as being better.. because it's legal and cannabis isn't - its not merely that they themselves feel it is better. The law is telling us one is better or not as bad not the person iykwim? By making one legal and the other illegal it creates a double standard.

MY opinion is that they are both disgusting (I do not say ppl who use them are but the substances themselves - just to be clear!) and should both be illegal.. x
 
I just cant understand why people think alcohol is ok and "better for you" and marijuana is not?

The only reason its illegal is due to taxing. :S

I dont think anyone has said drinking alchol is better,unless i have missed a post

It's just a common point of view. Alcohol is by far more dangerous (physically) than cannabis but it is more acceptable to Joe Bloggs because it is legal.

But that is perhaps the only reason people view alcohol as being better.. because it's legal and cannabis isn't - its not merely that they themselves feel it is better. The law is telling us one is better or not as bad not the person iykwim? By making one legal and the other illegal it creates a double standard.

MY opinion is that they are both disgusting (I do not say ppl who use them are but the substances themselves - just to be clear!) and should both be illegal.. x

I agree that is why many people believe alcohol to be safer. I also think the law should be questioned when the revenue generated is more important than our safety. If alcohol is legal, cannabis should be too. If cannabis stays illegal alcohol should be banned. Just my view of course, but it would be nice to see the government dropping the double standards that are quite evident when looking at the law.

With regard to legal highs (someone mentioned it somewhere i think) - i have huge beef with the media. All those mephedrone deaths that got reported and not one was proven to be caused by 4MMC. I know of only 2 and both were as a result of incorrect diagnosis and treatment in hospital. There may be more that i am not aware of though. My point is that 2 deaths indirectly caused by 4MMC is not a large amount, certainly when compared to alcohol or tobacco related deaths percentage-wise.

The sun ran a story a little while ago about benzocaine being the new legal high - it has NO stimulant qualities and is used as dentist anaesthetic, is in things like bonjella (lidocaine is also used). I highly doubt it wasn't thoroughly tested before use in these products. I personally believe this story has been fabricated in order to get it banned as it is a substance frequently used for cutting other drugs.

I wish we got the truth instead of propaganda :nope:
 
I believe it just makes it self known when you are in your teens. My mom knew something was up with my brother since he was born.
 
Also, maybe it is that many schizophrenics smoke weed, because it is calming and a lot of people do self medicate with marijuana, like someone else said they did.
 
Also, maybe it is that many schizophrenics smoke weed, because it is calming and a lot of people do self medicate with marijuana, like someone else said they did.

I'm probably repeating myself here but i'm too tired to look back.

I am one of those people that self medicate. Or i did before i had albert but i've calmed down now. The types of substance i took changed with my mood swings - i've been able to see the pattern now i look back. And my mental health issues have been around since i was 13 - a long time before i even understood what drugs were.
 
Yes, so I am thinking it is an underlying issue, and it just so happens that a lot of people with mental health problems choose marijuana to medicate themselves as it works?
 
I truely dont know if drugs cause schizophrenia or if people turn to them because of it, all I know is there is deffinatly a link.

As I said in the other thread me ex has been in and out of mental hospitals since he killed his father when he was about 17 while he was high on weed, it was technicaly an accidental death as they where having an argument about his drug use and he threw a chair at his father who then suffered a heart attack (his mother told him he broke his neck but we didnt know the truth behind that)
He suffered from schizophrenia which didnt start showing untill he was 19-20, he was 26 when I was with him and in the 6 months I was with him he also tried killing his mother at least 4 times.
TBH if you had known her I think most wouldnt have blaimed him, she tried spiking my food with temazepam and another of his medication and bribed him to try getting me pregnant, I ended it with him when he threatend to kill me after he went on another bender, he was generaly an all round fu*ked up guy.
When he wasnt stoned he was very polite, gentle, funny guy untill about the 3rd day then his mental health problems kicked back in and he would get stoned in an attempt to make it better but end up making it 100 times worse and just vanish for a few days.

I also lost a good friend to suicide because she was a marijuana abuser and developed paranoia to the point she was convinced someone was trying to kill her and in her own words "she saved them the hassle" and hung herself.

Another lad I used to hang around with was killed accidently as he walked home along a train track stoned out of his head on weed.
Believe me im no saint I did more then my fair share of it in my teens (and most likely other peoples share of it) but that night will stick with me because I was also walking down the train track as well like an idiot and it was only because a friend phoned my mum because she couldnt get any sense into me to get off the train line.
My mum came out looking for me and took me home and gave me the biggest slap of my life, my mate had wondered off in another direction so no one could find him and we found out two days later what happened to him and I have never touched the stuff since.

So I realy dont know how anyone can say weed has no death toll, at the very least it can f*ck your life up and those of your friends and family.
Alcohol and other drugs are just as bad dont get me wrong, I cant stand what any of it does to some people but please just dont say weed doesnt kill.
 
Cannabis, as far as i know does not cause schizophrenia, it does however make it more likely to manifest, a trigger if you like?

I do believe if someone is predisposed to become mentally ill though they will regardles..
 
Just wanted to repost what I said in the previous thread. Glad this is a much more relaxed debate thread. I found alot of posts in the other thread VERY offensive.



The way the media makes marijuana out to be is bad. So much scientific research has been done and so many people strongly believe in its healing powers. The government isn't so quick to say "Oh we fucked up, it really isn't that bad afterall"...cause honestly how often does the government admit they messed up?

If everyone thinks "the government said it was bad and now they are saying its good, what else are they misinterpreting and wrong about....?"

The reason the government (or at least the U.S.) isn't quick to try to market marijuana is because its not taxable for them. They know pretty much anyone who has access to some seeds can grow it, unlike cigarettes or alcohol. How many people are gonna grow their own tobacco and roll it up into cigarettes or ferment their own wine? Not alot of people, making it much easier to just go to the store and purchase it and therefore more money in the goverments penny bank.

I think we can all agree on the fact pot shouldn't be used around children.

As far as marijuana making you vomit. If you consumed marijuana by eating it, you could possibly vomit. But just smoking it can relieve nausea.

In the U.S. there have been over 100,000 deaths alcohol related, 0 deaths related to marijuana.

All of the lovely over the counter prescriptions listed can relieve pain, but you can also overdose on them making them fatal.
In order to overdose on marijuana you would have to CONSUME more then 300 grams in one sitting, which is pretty much never gonna happen.

Yes there are some moms on here in favor of pot, but we are all great mommies and still put our children first in life. Not skitzophrenic, uneducated dope smokers....
 
I didn't bother to read this whole thread, but to me pot is not much of a drug as long as you dont let it control your life. I know some people who can spend $5 every two weeks and thats it, and to me, thats ok, but then there are other people spending $20 a day on it, and thats just ridiculous.

Drugs such as cocaine/heroin/crack, on the other hand is a totally different story, heroin has become a problem in my area and within the last 2 years 4 people I went to school with died of a heroin OD. Those drugs are WAY too easy to get your hands on and even easier to get hooked on.
 
I do not agree with people thinking they are above the law and when you break the law it implies just that to me.

I can understand being young and experimenting particularly when peer pressure is rife, but as an adult to willing break the law time and time again, with respect to using drugs.. I have a problem with that :shrug:

But what is your issue? Is it that they are breaking the law and hence you feel all laws no matter what they say are our moral guide OR do you have an issue with drug use itself whether it is legal or not?

And hence when you are in countries where drug use is not illegal you are fine with it. Or when you are in countries where the law is harsh and immoral you are fine with that? :shrug:

See that I cannot comment on as I have grew up in this country and thus have been influenced accordingly by this countries laws and noone elses. how could i possibly comment on that? If you are referring to me perhaps moving - would I still have a problem? - then yes I would because as I said I have grown up in this country and cannabis is illegal here.

I dont think all laws are a moral guide but the laws of a country should be adhered to otherwise where do you draw the line with what is acceptable? Like I said on another thread, If i came on here and stated id been drinking and driving but not hurt anyone and because noone was hurt I intended to do it again - would that be ok? Just because I *think* its ok, regardless of the risks involved? If you are under the influence of drugs anything can happen - you can't control how your body accepts a drug or reacts to it. Same as someone who has drank for years can't say for sure how they would react on a drink or two :shrug: Its the same principal.

Im exhausted tonight so excuse me if I am babbling but hope you get my point..

This is the major problem. People keep comparing pot to alcohol and its incomparable. Pot doesn't make people get into fights or impede motor skills or make you inclined to make decisions which you would not have made if you were not high except perhaps eat too many cookies.

As for being conditioned by the laws of your own country; that's my point. You can't say that it's theoretically okay for a person born in a particular country to not question those laws without saying they have given up the responsibility of their own moral compass. We should be better than that. Depending on which country you come from or what time whether the law be enslaving people, killing homosexuals, stoning people or indeed putting responsible recreational pot users to jail for doing something which doesn't harm people.

As for drink driving, it's HIGHLY dangerous not only to the people doing it but to others and the statistics prove it. SO the crux of the issue is 1. Do we say ALL drugs are illegal no matter how dangerous or the effects? 2. If not HOW do we define which drugs are reasonably safe enough to be legal? and 3. WHY is anything legal or illegal. 4. How effective is prohibition when the drug involved is already used by millions of people with no danger or detriment to themselves or society.

Insanity can be triggered by all sorts of things. People think listening to certain types of music can lead to teenagers killing themselves or other people. We can't ban all music. Or indeed any particular type of music.

If we are going to say ALL drugs are illegal then we surely add the caveat of medical use and there cannabis still has MANY valid medical uses with barely no side effects (besides an increase in appetite). So then why do people sneer when people are prescribed cannabis when they're not sneering at people being given morphine which is far more potent and dangerous a drug?

I would love to hear a cohesive argument.
 
Redpoppy, i find it really interesting that you made that link to music. In my view, 'those' types of music also tend to be loved most by people who take drugs - gabba, hardcore, grindcore, metal etc. Not that ALL peoplle who listen to it take drugs of course. That raises a few questions for me-

Is it the drugs that make the music more appealing?
Is it the music that make drugs more appealing?
Are people who do both just more open minded to those genres of music?
Then the link to people getting mental illnesses because of the music - could they be predisposed to it and that's why those types of music and drugs tend to have a higher number of listeners and takers that get diagnosed?

I realise there a few generalisations there and it is technically on topic but this is just from my experience and feel it would be important to know this before making any real decisions about the legality of recreational drugs.
 
Redpoppy, i find it really interesting that you made that link to music. In my view, 'those' types of music also tend to be loved most by people who take drugs - gabba, hardcore, grindcore, metal etc. Not that ALL peoplle who listen to it take drugs of course. That raises a few questions for me-

Is it the drugs that make the music more appealing?
Is it the music that make drugs more appealing?
Are people who do both just more open minded to those genres of music?
Then the link to people getting mental illnesses because of the music - could they be predisposed to it and that's why those types of music and drugs tend to have a higher number of listeners and takers that get diagnosed?

I realise there a few generalisations there and it is technically on topic but this is just from my experience and feel it would be important to know this before making any real decisions about the legality of recreational drugs.

Well I think in the case of certain types of music, like some hardcore dance, the vast majority of people who listen and enjoy would probably be using MDMA. Have you ever been in a club where you're like, "you guys are REAAAALLY enjoying this THUD THUD THUD THUD THUD and although I like you're enthusiams I'm going to have to go to another room". :haha: BUT I know far too many metal heads who have never touched anything beyond alcohol and even that not too much. Also, it depends on the music and the drug and the individuals i suppose.

I would dare to suggest that perhaps creative progressive music (including certain genres of hard dance etc.) are appreciated by everyone BUT I think the type of people who are OPEN to listening and learning about music which is beyond your churned out everyday, not very creative pop music and like to investigate music which is more leftfield, a bit more experimental, which tries to do new things or try sounds and vibes which are not "normal" are also the type of people who are open to questioning most things in life, who want to learn and understand things, the reasons why behind issues and hence are also the types of people more INCLINED to do drugs, at least ones which after investigation are known not to have many negatives associated with them at all.

I also know people (parents of drug users) who were VERY anti drug including (but not only) a retired policeman who would have broken my friend's neck had he found out he had used any illegal substance at one point but since that friend is now a grown adult in his 30s and he explained that he did recreationally and occasionally smoke pot but that his dad should consider that some his favourite music (top of the list being the rolling stones) may never have been created had it not been for drug use.

Musicians and artists have been jamming and creating to drugs for millennia. Some people do not value art or music but most of those who do would be horrified to think we may have put away picasso for opium use or in fact Rumi (the poet) for alcohol use or any number of talented individuals who were not off the rails.

And although I realise music is an issue of taste, it's also an issue of TALENT. People who play instruments or write lyrics or sing with emotion are not all equal. Jimi Hendrix IS a better guitar player than Richie Sambora. That does not mean than you have to like Jimi better AT ALL as that would make no sense but some people are better musicians and more expressive vocalists. Mariah Carey is a technically one of the bests singers of her generation but I never get more than three emotions from her tops. Can you imagine if she sang the blues with a voice like that? Or expressed anger? She just showcases her vocals but with no love of using her voice to express things with emotion.

Not to say all great musicians or vocalists were using drugs. I don't know but I think Nina Simone never was using drugs or alcohol and WOW that woman could sing. Both technically and way way beyond. :cloud9:
 

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