Is becoming pregnant while obese ethical?

[tallybee]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

I see your point totally. I think the OP said obesity in particular because it receives much press attention and as such is an interesting point. There are other threads regarding other circumstances affecting having children. Many are not worded in the 'is it ethical' vein, but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'. Last time I checked, that was still a rational discussion

 

[cleckner04]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

Said much better than I could've put it, especially the last part.

 

[cleckner04]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

I see your point totally. I think the OP said obesity in particular because it receives much press attention and as such is an interesting point. There are other threads regarding other circumstances affecting having children. Many are not worded in the 'is it ethical' vein, but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'. Last time I checked, that was still a rational discussion

I think the other one is going over much better because gays are the minority on this particular forum. IYKWIM. Obesity is sensitive for women especially ones that are birthing children and have trouble losing the pregnancy weight. If this forum was full of gay people, that other thread might've turned out on a completely different note. Just my opinion of course. I think something like 60% of people are overweight now. So it's obviously going to be a topic that gets a lot of women heated and upset.

 

[tallybee]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

Said much better than I could've put it, especially the last part.

This is true. I think we all know that measures like BMI are useful but limited. Being limited means there will be special cases - the exceptions, not the rule. It doesn't completely rubbish the concept though.

 

[smokey]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

I see your point totally. I think the OP said obesity in particular because it receives much press attention and as such is an interesting point. There are other threads regarding other circumstances affecting having children. Many are not worded in the 'is it ethical' vein, but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'. Last time I checked, that was still a rational discussion

Actualy unless im misstaken the other thread actualy was about discussing the oppinion of a news article not it being the opinion of the OP therfor the thread was in no way slating a population and their choices, the OP even went on to say that they didnt agree with it where as this thread started out questioning the choices of women and thats where the main differance is.

Im not one of the offended ones as I couldnt care less what others thought of my disision to have a baby while being obese but I can clearly see why the questioning of someones ethics when all they want to do is love and care for a baby can get people wound up.

 

[tallybee]

I don't think the OP says anything about it being her opinion, just asks for peoples thoughts

 

[tallybee]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

I see your point totally. I think the OP said obesity in particular because it receives much press attention and as such is an interesting point. There are other threads regarding other circumstances affecting having children. Many are not worded in the 'is it ethical' vein, but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'. Last time I checked, that was still a rational discussion

I think the other one is going over much better because gays are the minority on this particular forum. IYKWIM. Obesity is sensitive for women especially ones that are birthing children and have trouble losing the pregnancy weight. If this forum was full of gay people, that other thread might've turned out on a completely different note. Just my opinion of course. I think something like 60% of people are overweight now. So it's obviously going to be a topic that gets a lot of women heated and upset.

I see what you're getting at, but does that mean that we can only have discussion about minority groups who aren't here?

 

[smokey]

I don't think the OP says anything about it being her opinion, just asks for peoples thoughts

I was more pointing out about this statment of the other thread not being quite true and how it didnt realy apply to the responses in this one.

"but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'."

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Maybe ethics is the wrong word to use I agree
But I have seen many threads in the past debating the rights and wrongs of teenage pregnancy. Yeah I may not agree with some of the points in the debate. But I wouldn't say the debate shouldn't continue etcxx

 

[lesleyann]

the whole 60% of the population is overweight does not make it right though, we as people should be wanting a healthy lifestyle and a healthy weight, i no this is a little off topic but on brittens fatest man the surgen said if the way obesity is going in 30 years in would totally cripple the NHS now thats not right in its self. and its not a simple case of well its my body ill do what i want while you are trying to make another human being or carrying another human being it does not really matter what you want its about protecting that little being inside of you just if you dont care what YOU eat does not mean your child should have to and it is exactly the same as drinking/drug taking and smoking they should all be stopped while pregnant so why put yourself and your child at risk for the sake of not wanting to wait a little longer so you are a healthy weight?

Also just because the gay parents thread is going ok just because gay people on this website are in the minority does not mean we cannot debate things about real life issues just because its about the manority (sp?) just like aidans mummy said teen parents get stick all the time but noone then says we should not disscuss it do they?

 

[Tasha]

I think the problem with the ethical question is where do we stop? If it is anything that makes the pregnancy a higher risk that means we have to think about high and low bmi's, people who are above and below a certain age, people who have more than a certain amount of children, people who have had complications in previous pregnancies including loses, people who have a family history of certain illness/diseases, people with their own medical problems. It soon sounds like we are trying to create a super race doesnt it?

I want to make it clear, I am not saying any of these things are unethical, just that if it is to do with the risks then all of the above can be seen as raising them.

The other point is, it isnt as simple as what is ethical and what isnt. Peoples emotions and what sometimes they not only feel they want but what they feel they need comes into it. I know health care professionals think me previously TTC to conceive was unethical, a doctor told me I was stupid, selfish and should be happy with what I have, no doubt other people think the same, but as I say what others on the outside see isnt the whole story.

 

[cleckner04]

It would have been a much different debate if it had been phrased: If you had a health condition you could fix to make yourself more healthy, is it ethical to not do so before attempting to become pregnant. I think most people would agree that if you can, you ought to, but often with obesity it's not something you can just do. And viewing obesity as an external indicator of health can be incorrect as well.

I see your point totally. I think the OP said obesity in particular because it receives much press attention and as such is an interesting point. There are other threads regarding other circumstances affecting having children. Many are not worded in the 'is it ethical' vein, but the one about gay parents blatantly states 'gay parents are selfish and cruel, discuss'. Last time I checked, that was still a rational discussion

I think the other one is going over much better because gays are the minority on this particular forum. IYKWIM. Obesity is sensitive for women especially ones that are birthing children and have trouble losing the pregnancy weight. If this forum was full of gay people, that other thread might've turned out on a completely different note. Just my opinion of course. I think something like 60% of people are overweight now. So it's obviously going to be a topic that gets a lot of women heated and upset.

I see what you're getting at, but does that mean that we can only have discussion about minority groups who aren't here?

LOL! I'm just explaining why I think this one is much more heated than the other. I'm not saying this discussion shouldn't take place.

And I do agree that the 60% being overweight doesn't make it right. That was just to point out why this thread is much more sensitive of a subject when the majority of the population is overweight.

At the end of the day, who really cares what other people do with their lives anyways. I don't care if someone is fat/skinny/gay/straight, as long as they are good parents and love their children that is all that matters. Being fat doesn't mean you will feed your kid Cheetos and chocolate their whole life. I'm overweight but my refrigerator is full of fruit, veggies, and healthy snacks. There isn't a speck of chocolate or chips(crisps) or anything of the sort in my entire house. I have a room full of exercise equipment that gets daily use. So honestly, I won't feel a shred of guilt for getting pregnant while *gasp* being obese.

 

[TattiesMum]

OK .... back to debating the core issue

Question : is there any real proof - ie objective studies - that PROVE that obesity in pregnancy offers a High Risk to either mother or child? Not to do with costs - because those relate to health professionals' perceptions and actions, but to do with occurring complications for mother, child or both.

I'm not talking about opinion here, from Health Professionals or otherwise, but about large scale objective studies comparing those of 'normal' BMI, those who are 'obese' (BMI of between 30 and 40) and those who are 'morbidly obese' (BMI of over 40).

I've done a lot of searching off the back of this debate and to be honest I'm struggling to find ANY objective study at all, let alone one which offers definitive proof ... the closest I can find is this https://journals.lww.com/greenjourn...Morbid_Obesity_and_the_Risk_of_Adverse.2.aspx

This was a large scale study which shows the percentage rates for various complications which are commonly stated as being more likely where the mother is obese.... it compares the outcomes, in percentage terms, for the three weight 'classes' as outlined above - with the percentages expressed for each outcome in the order Morbidly Obese: Obese: Normal.

Now I've read it, read it and read it again and to be honest I can't find any evidence that obesity correlates consistently with complications

 

[tallybee]

OK .... back to debating the core issue

Question : is there any real proof - ie objective studies - that PROVE that obesity in pregnancy offers a High Risk to either mother or child? Not to do with costs - because those relate to health professionals' perceptions and actions, but to do with occurring complications for mother, child or both.

I'm not talking about opinion here, from Health Professionals or otherwise, but about large scale objective studies comparing those of 'normal' BMI, those who are 'obese' (BMI of between 30 and 40) and those who are 'morbidly obese' (BMI of over 40).

I've done a lot of searching off the back of this debate and to be honest I'm struggling to find ANY objective study at all, let alone one which offers definitive proof ... the closest I can find is this https://journals.lww.com/greenjourn...Morbid_Obesity_and_the_Risk_of_Adverse.2.aspx

This was a large scale study which shows the percentage rates for various complications which are commonly stated as being more likely where the mother is obese.... it compares the outcomes, in percentage terms, for the three weight 'classes' as outlined above - with the percentages expressed for each outcome in the order Morbidly Obese: Obese: Normal.

Now I've read it, read it and read it again and to be honest I can't find any evidence that obesity correlates consistently with complications

Aye but here's the thing - research is conducted by people and read by people. People can only do this from their own subjective viewpoint, so total objectivity is a myth. People tend to look for what they want to find. It's entirely possible to NOT find what you'd like to deny too.

Sorry but saying obesity is not a health risk is denial. Many other health risks exist, of course! We ALL have risk factors! This isn't a risk-free world, we all know that. And no-one's saying ALL obese people are lazy junk-food guzzling slobs! But the facts are there if you look for them.

 

[tallybee]

I think the problem with the ethical question is where do we stop? If it is anything that makes the pregnancy a higher risk that means we have to think about high and low bmi's, people who are above and below a certain age, people who have more than a certain amount of children, people who have had complications in previous pregnancies including loses, people who have a family history of certain illness/diseases, people with their own medical problems. It soon sounds like we are trying to create a super race doesnt it?

I want to make it clear, I am not saying any of these things are unethical, just that if it is to do with the risks then all of the above can be seen as raising them.

The other point is, it isnt as simple as what is ethical and what isnt. Peoples emotions and what sometimes they not only feel they want but what they feel they need comes into it. I know health care professionals think me previously TTC to conceive was unethical, a doctor told me I was stupid, selfish and should be happy with what I have, no doubt other people think the same, but as I say what others on the outside see isnt the whole story.

It isn't about trying to create a super race. It's about healthy debate

 

[Laura2919]

As someone else said there is so much surrounding obesity these days that a post like this is bound to offend some. It just could of been worded a hell of a lot better than it has been.
Like I have said before nobody knows what a person does to attempt to lose weight and whether they even tried to.
The word ethical is what I think gets to people. On a forum where we arent face to face sometimes posts and words can be misunderstood so you do have to pick words carefully. I am guilty of this myself.

 

[xolily]

i think if you're obese to the point of not being able to do everyday things, then yeah, it is unfair. i'm 5ft5 and 15st so probably classed as morbidly obese.. i had a perfect pregnancy (bar having daily injections of clexane), a perfect labour and a perfect child! i also worked fulltime (housekeeping) until 10 days before i gave birth.. and i only finished due to the hotel flooding and it being deemed not safe for me to work. xx

 

[angelstardust]

There is very little increased risk assosiated with obesity in pregnancy (specifically pregnancy not general health). I also beleive that the body will only allow pregnancy to occur if it can cope with pregnancy.

Lifestyle wise, I do feel that the parents should make every effort to have a healthy lifestyle in order to raise a child, but this is not exclusive to obesity.

 

[camishantel]

OK I don't really know why I am posting in here as I am sure someone will have something negative to say to me but I am classed as mornidly obese with a BMI of 51.. I have had 4 previous losses confirmed none however where due to my weight... I have a issue where when I had surgery they knicked my thyroid which made it stop working so I can eat salad and drink water and gain weight... I had talked to my dr because I also have PCOS and after some testing was said I was fine to have a child and he put me on a medication to help with this.. I am now 27 weeks pregnant with a perfectly healthy baby boy.. I am monitored closely because I had high blood pressure before becoming pregnant (from mom and dad) but my blood pressure has been better than a skinny woman since becoming pregnant. My dr. also told me that becoming pregnant might actually help me with fixing my thyroid and losing weight and honestly I have pretty much always eaten healthily and I have lost 27 pounds while pregnant not trying mind you it just happens and since the baby is fine and growig properly the dr said it is fine and happens with some women who are obese when they get pregnant... also I have not really had any breathing issues (have asthma) with the exception of getting bronchitis a couple weeks ago.. I know this is not the norm but I also know that telling a women not to get pregnant because she is overweight is not right.. I think if she has met with her dr and it is deemed safe for her than she should not be critisized for her choice..

 

[MissFox]

In line with the discussion I do not think it is unethical for many reasons that have been stated- including how weight is not necessarily an indicator of "health"

I am considered OBESE as I am 5'1 and weighed 175 before pregnancy. A year before falling pregnant I was at 130- still considered overweight although I wore a size 3 in pants. Over the next year my birth control made me gain almost 35lbs- I exercised and ate healthy and watched the weight come on. I decided to quit as I was ready to have a baby and wanted to get "in shape" before falling pregnant. Once off birth control I began to have HORRIBLE side effects- ever symptom of being pregnant and rapid weight gain. In the 2.5 months before getting pregnant I gained the rest of the weight. I wanted to be a healthy weight for pregnancy but I was losing hope. Turned out getting pregnant was great for me. I've had no health issues with it and currently (at 27 weeks) weight 181. I eat mostly healthy and indulge when I want to. I had a belgian waffle for lunch with myfriend and it had whipped cream and strawberries on it. Sure- absolutely unhealthy. Tonight and yesterday I've been eating healthy. My cousin was always a stick figure and lived off pizza, hamburgers and hotdogs (all microwavable!) her whole life. Physically she looked healthier but I always was on the inside.
Thus said, I think that OBESE and even MORBIDLY OBESE women who feel that they are CAPABLE of carrying a child (your body will not let you if you cannot, regardless of the reason) or even feel like they want to try should be able to.