is/was your LO a really bad sleeper? support and advise thread!

[chocolala]

Oh Kosh, I know exactly how you feel that's how I get, I hate it, but when I'm in it I find it so hard to come back around to being a reasonable human being. I also get annoyed at the husband, who in my mind is coming up with all sorts of stupid reasons why she's not sleep, the reason is, if it's a reason is she just won't, end of! But he's trying to problem solve and it just doesn't help anyone.

I'm another one who doesn't have enough hours in the day because of Lily's sleep, everything is so rushed and doesn't get done properly. The tidying is rarely done, I have to Hoover as we have a dog. I get an hour alone in the morning to wash up and have a bath, it's not long enough. Dinner is always rushed as lily is over tired and shouting.

I keep promising my husband it'll get easier and we'll get more time for us, it hasn't happened yet. He feels neglected, but when there is the chance for sex I don't feel like it as I just want some time to relax and have to my self, not tending to yet another persons needs before my own. He doesn't really get this as he thinks it should be a need of mine too.

 

[MrsHedgehog]

Oh Kosh, I know exactly how you feel that's how I get, I hate it, but when I'm in it I find it so hard to come back around to being a reasonable human being. I also get annoyed at the husband, who in my mind is coming up with all sorts of stupid reasons why she's not sleep, the reason is, if it's a reason is she just won't, end of! But he's trying to problem solve and it just doesn't help anyone.

I'm another one who doesn't have enough hours in the day because of Lily's sleep, everything is so rushed and doesn't get done properly. The tidying is rarely done, I have to Hoover as we have a dog. I get an hour alone in the morning to wash up and have a bath, it's not long enough. Dinner is always rushed as lily is over tired and shouting.

I keep promising my husband it'll get easier and we'll get more time for us, it hasn't happened yet. He feels neglected, but when there is the chance for sex I don't feel like it as I just want some time to relax and have to my self, not tending to yet another persons needs before my own. He doesn't really get this as he thinks it should be a need of mine too.

I know how you feel. DH has been complaining too about feeling neglected but when I get 5mins peace all I want to do is put my feet up and have a cuppa.

I get angry at LO too in the night when she won't sleep and then I see DH lying snoring and I feel like kicking his butt. He can't help really as LO only wants me but I get so frustrated and take it out on him.

After our 2 good nights we had another bad night. LO wouldn't go to sleep and when she finally did woke every hour or less all night. I think she was overstimulated from visiting family in the evening. I wish they'd leave her alone when she's getting sleepy.

 

[lisa1980]

Kosh

Everyone

I so know that you mean about feeling really angry and frustrated with LO when you know logically that it isn't their fault and they're not trying to annoy you. I think the tiredness combined with the neverending frustration of getting them to sleep, keeping them asleep etc etc is really a type of torture that you can only understand if you're doing it day in day out.

I always feel SO guilty in the morning about being annoyed with him at night, but it feels like my brain just can't cope with it all overnight and in the morning I go back to being my normal reasonable (!) self. I wish I could rationalise it better at night but I just can't seem to sometimes.

We had pretty bad night too. He just kept waking and wouldn't settle for AGES and was grumpy. He's so tired today and the heat doesn't help things as he gets so listless with it.

I think you're right about the 90mins thing....it's just that I never know how long it's going to take to actually get him to sleep so it's really hard to keep to time with it. I'm not decided about what I'm going to do sleep training-wise yet....I'm keeping my options open as at this point it's obvious that whatever I'm doing isn't working, and waiting for him to grow out of it also isn't working so well for any of us I really feel that if there was a finite amount of time that I knew that this would go on for i'd be able to cope a lot better but it's the endless hoping and disappointment that is really starting to get to me.

Anyway, family BBQ today so LO is overstimulated, overtired and grumpy, grumpy, grumpy so I'm not holding out much hope for tonight.

 

[lisa1980]

Morning all!

How were your nights?

 

[Natsku]

for all the sleep deprivation sufferers! I know how hard it is. Maria was a terrible terrible sleeper, waking every 45mins to 90mins was pretty normal for her (occasionally she'd go through a short phase of sleeping better but it would never last)

Even now at 18 months she takes an hour or more to settle at bedtime and wakes several times and once or twice every couple of weeks she'll decide to have a midnight party and stay up til morning....

 

[Sherileigh]

Madden seems to be getting worse not better. It takes hours to settle to sleep at night.....well he falls asleep the first time quickly then I'm in every 10-20 mins after to nurse back to sleep. We cosleep so I get a couple hours in and then the early morning it's the same thing, constant waking and resettling. I'm exhausted!! I need to help him learn to self settle but I don't know how??

 

[Sherileigh]

Oh and I'm with you ladies on the anger at night, the frustration. Then when I get four minutes DH will be asking me for sex....I'm like are freaking serious? I don't want anyone to touch me!!! Lol.

 

[Bid]

Kosh I'm adding my BF boy to your group of nightmare sleepers! Definitely seems to be the boys, huh?

From when Oliver was tiny we've had a good routine for him - bath with lavender stuff, then a quick massage with moisturiser, into his sleeping bag and feed to sleep. Always with him in bed between 7-7.30. He used to sleep for a 5 or 6 hour stretch then wake up every 3 hours until morning. So it worked out he would wake at around 1am and 4am before waking up for the day at 7am. This was fine - he never woke up properly and would go straight back to sleep within minutes, and was always in his cot. Gradually the 3 hour wakings turned to 2 hours so I started co-sleeping which helped a bit. Now he's worse than ever - the 6 hour stretch is a fond memory and he wakes up every hour until I go to bed with him, then I've got no idea how often he wakes while we're co-sleeping but it's A LOT! It's probably still every hour or so - he wakes up whinging and searching for boob and then does a couple of sucks and goes back to sleep. He won't settle in his cot at all - when I put him down at night it's on my bed. It's quite safe as the cot is right against the bed so he can't roll off and I surround him by pillows on the other sides, and also have a video monitor so can see him if he moves. But it's not ideal. And when I go to bed he squirms and kicks all night so even if he's asleep, I'm awake. My husband sleeps in the spare room and has done since Oliver was born - unlike me he can't function with no sleep! As for sex - what's that?! We haven't DTD since WELL before he was born and I'm too tired to care

We've kind of got into a nap schedule during the day - he seems to need a nap every two hours on the dot. As long as I start the routine at the right time he'll go down quite easily. But only if it's on my bed with a boob in his mouth, of course! He'll only sleep for around 30-45 mins each time and does about three of those a day. If I stay with him he'll often sleep for a couple of hours but I can't lie around in bed with him all day so that doesn't happen too often. I hate going out because I know it'll mess up his schedule so end up staying in the house for days at a time. Thankfully I've got a playpen and a jumperoo for him so I can stick him in one of them to get things done around the house. With two big dogs and two cats, leaving the cleaning undone is just not an option. Especially now that Oliver is crawling.

I think like a lot of you I've just become resigned to it and have started to get better at coping without sleep, but I don't know what will happen when I go back to work. I've attempted CC/CIO a couple of times but he gets himself into such a state, sobbing like his heart is breaking. I end up in tears and go up to him, by which time he's inconsolable and even the boob won't settle him. I hate seeing his sad puffy little face and those sobs that last long after he's stopped crying - oh it broke my heart! I felt like the worst mother in the world and have vowed never to try it again

 

[AngelUK]

My boys are FF and have been from the start even though I expressed 2 times a day for about 8 weeks. So it is definitely not BF that is responsible for the bad sleeping habits of my older twin. Mind you, OH reports that last night, Dom slept from midnight to 3:30 when he demanded his food and then to 7:30 and no wakings in between. Sooo..... I am not going to say more in fear of jinxing things.

 

[kosh]

Kosh I'm adding my BF boy to your group of nightmare sleepers! Definitely seems to be the boys, huh?

oh no bid! i wasn't expecting you to join us!

We've kind of got into a nap schedule during the day - he seems to need a nap every two hours on the dot. As long as I start the routine at the right time he'll go down quite easily. But only if it's on my bed with a boob in his mouth, of course! He'll only sleep for around 30-45 mins each time and does about three of those a day. If I stay with him he'll often sleep for a couple of hours but I can't lie around in bed with him all day so that doesn't happen too often. I hate going out because I know it'll mess up his schedule so end up staying in the house for days at a time. Thankfully I've got a playpen and a jumperoo for him so I can stick him in one of them to get things done around the house. With two big dogs and two cats, leaving the cleaning undone is just not an option. Especially now that Oliver is crawling.

^^ this is what really gets to me. I too fill I can't leave the house as I am so worried he will not nap and then he'll be really grumpy/overtired, but it makes me feel trapped and depressed, and I am sure he gets bored too.

is he crawling already?

I think like a lot of you I've just become resigned to it and have started to get better at coping without sleep, but I don't know what will happen when I go back to work. I've attempted CC/CIO a couple of times but he gets himself into such a state, sobbing like his heart is breaking. I end up in tears and go up to him, by which time he's inconsolable and even the boob won't settle him. I hate seeing his sad puffy little face and those sobs that last long after he's stopped crying - oh it broke my heart! I felt like the worst mother in the world and have vowed never to try it again

 

[sequeena]

Hello again ladies Thomas has had 2 naps today! I guess all that crawling is getting to him. He's been in bed for about 1/2 hour now but I've no doubt he will be up soon. How do you stop them going to sleep? I can't obviously but sometimes I wish he'd not sleep during the day so he'd get solid sleep at night.

 

[kosh]

Kosh

Everyone

I so know that you mean about feeling really angry and frustrated with LO when you know logically that it isn't their fault and they're not trying to annoy you. I think the tiredness combined with the neverending frustration of getting them to sleep, keeping them asleep etc etc is really a type of torture that you can only understand if you're doing it day in day out.

exactly. a friend of mine keeps telling me that is normal and ALL babies are like this and doesn't understand why I feel so worried/stressed about going out during the day, but I know this is different

I think you're right about the 90mins thing....it's just that I never know how long it's going to take to actually get him to sleep so it's really hard to keep to time with it. I'm not decided about what I'm going to do sleep training-wise yet....I'm keeping my options open as at this point it's obvious that whatever I'm doing isn't working, and waiting for him to grow out of it also isn't working so well for any of us I really feel that if there was a finite amount of time that I knew that this would go on for i'd be able to cope a lot better but it's the endless hoping and disappointment that is really starting to get to me.

re. the 90min thing - at the moment you nurse him to sleep?how long does he feed for approx? with my LO I leave 20-30min I think, so if he got up from his last nap at 5pm he should be ready to sleep by 8pm and I try to start feeding him at 7:30pm.
there is definitely something about it - the first week I tried it and followed the program religiously he actually self-settled at bed time every night! but unfortunately it lasted 1 week only

 

[disneybelle25]

Hey all, I hope Im ok to post here but Im at the end of my tether. LO is 11 weeks tomorrow and is ff. We had gotte into a nice routine where he would go down at 10, and then wake at 3 for a feed then be up around 6 to start the day. Then we had 2 nights where he slept throughand I though great!! And thats when it went wrong. Now hes awake ever hour and a half to 2 hours. Not to feed but just to cuddle. Within 2 minutes of me picking him up hes asleep again and will go down but not long after is up again. Ive tried leaving him to cry but after an hour Im thinking hes not self soothing!! Ive tried swaddling, moving him up to his cot in ou, r room coz I think he has outgrown his crib, Ive tried cutting down naps and letting him sleep when he wants, weve got a bedtime routine... Im lost for a next move!!!

 

[lisa1980]

[/QUOTE]

re. the 90min thing - at the moment you nurse him to sleep?how long does he feed for approx? with my LO I leave 20-30min I think, so if he got up from his last nap at 5pm he should be ready to sleep by 8pm and I try to start feeding him at 7:30pm.
there is definitely something about it - the first week I tried it and followed the program religiously he actually self-settled at bed time every night! but unfortunately it lasted 1 week only [/QUOTE]

I usually do nurse him to sleep. I'm trying to break this habit too though as every time he wakes at night he thinks he needs a boob to get back to sleep even though he doesn't actually suck it just rests his mouth on it as he's not hungry Lately I've been trying to nurse him at least 20mins before I want him to go to sleep. He usually manages a full feed in about 5-7mins (he's fast). I've managed to get him off to sleep with just the dummy (and rocking, and singing!) a few times which is good, but sometimes he'll go off without a fight and other times he'll be practically asleep and then as soon as I go near the cot he'll wake himself up and we'll have to start again which can take AGES.

I don't mind the bedtime routine taking a while, it's the constant waking after that that's frustrating. Last night he went down at 8pm easily but then woke at 9pm, 9.40pm, 10.30pm (when I went to bed). He actually slept better once he was in my bed, only waking to feed at 2.30am and 6.15am with a few brief dummy re-plugs inbetween

Aarrrgghhh! The total randomness of it drives me insane!!!

 

[Lilmiss1]

Hugs to all
My lo is 7 months and .bf. ds was waking up every 45/90 mins over night and taking ages to settle with rocking/ .bf. I was a wreck and physically he got too heavy for me to rock. I have a back problem. Anyway we had to resort to cc and he was doing fab for naps and bed. Then I got ill and all went to pot. Thankfully he sleeps better at night but Im back to .bf for naps and he now freaks out if I try to put him in his cot after he's fallen asleep. He's def not sleeping deeply enough. Going to 6 Olympic events didn't help as he got used to the ergo and being walked/ held again. Can't cope with cc again so we are doing gradual withdrawal method. bed time takes about an hour. naps havent worked at all.

Anyone else tried this method? X

 

[AngelUK]

Hey all, I hope Im ok to post here but Im at the end of my tether. LO is 11 weeks tomorrow and is ff. We had gotte into a nice routine where he would go down at 10, and then wake at 3 for a feed then be up around 6 to start the day. Then we had 2 nights where he slept throughand I though great!! And thats when it went wrong. Now hes awake ever hour and a half to 2 hours. Not to feed but just to cuddle. Within 2 minutes of me picking him up hes asleep again and will go down but not long after is up again. Ive tried leaving him to cry but after an hour Im thinking hes not self soothing!! Ive tried swaddling, moving him up to his cot in ou, r room coz I think he has outgrown his crib, Ive tried cutting down naps and letting him sleep when he wants, weve got a bedtime routine... Im lost for a next move!!!

Hun he is too young for that. I don't think at that age he can self soothe if he hasn't done it naturally anyway (some rare babies do but they are rare). And self soothing is not really possible if he is swaddled anyway; as far as I understand it at least (though I swear by swaddling myself!). The reason he wakes up and cries is that his sleep pattern is changing and becoming more like an adult. But this also means that when he half wakes up after a sleep cycle (they usually are about 45mins) he is aware that he is no longer on mummy being rocked and that makes him wake up further and cry. I read that that is as if we went to sleep on a soft comfy fluffy pillow and then half wake realising the pillow is gone. We'd wake further too to find the pillow again, wouldn't we?
We are struggling with this same problem with our older twin. Basically we made the mistake when he was small to rock him all the way to sleep so that now he finds it hard to fall asleep without being rocked. This also means that when he comes out of his sleep cycle he misses the warmth of mummy and the rocking and he cries to have it back. So what I am saying is that you should try to put your LO down soothed and drowsy but awake. It might take a while but he will eventually fall asleep by himself. Good luck hun. xxx

 

[Bid]

^^ this is what really gets to me. I too fill I can't leave the house as I am so worried he will not nap and then he'll be really grumpy/overtired, but it makes me feel trapped and depressed, and I am sure he gets bored too.

is he crawling already?

Yep and it's a nightmare He started rolling and stayed like that for months, but then one day he realised he could get on all fours and spent a few days just rocking back and forth like a nutter, now he's developed his own special method of crawl/bellyflopping and can move suprisingly fast! I can't leave him alone for a second anymore because he'll be tormenting the dog or trying to eat electricity cables or the pebbles out of the fireplace. I'm pretty sure he's suicidal, it's as though he just looks around and thinks "hmmm, what's the most dangerous thing I can do?!"

I feel bad about never leaving the house too, I'm sick of staring at four walls and I know he doesn't get enough fresh air and am constantly worrying about sunlight and vitamin D and rickets lol. I don't even have the excuse of not knowing anyone because I'm a member of a local mums group and they're always posting meet ups on facebook. In the past week I've only been out the house twice - once was a nice walk with the dogs down the beach which was nice, but the other was just taking him to the doctors so getting in and out of the car doesn't count as fresh air! My OH has taken him for a few little walks while I cook dinner etc but I can't help but feel guilty about him not getting out more. We were supposed to be going to Jiggy Wrigglers this morning but it was at 10.30 and there was no chance unless I postponed his nap, which I'm not going to start doing. I thought I might take him for a walk later but it's just started raining so it probably won't happen now.

I just feel like everything is getting on top of me at the moment and I know it's just because I'm tired and fed up of being stuck in the house but OH keeps going on about PND and it really p*sses me off - I've got every right to feel a bit down! Its ok for him, getting his 8 hours sleep every night and going off to work during the day while I'm stuck in the house on my own. And then he has the cheek to moan that he's been at work all day when I ask him to do things around the house! The cleaning is really getting to me as well - I love my animals to bits but at the moment I feel like I could send all of them packing to granny's! I spend ages hoovering every day so Oliver isn't rolling around in mess and by the time I've finished it's full of dog hair again. I can't even shut them out because most of downstairs is open plan. They're big black labs too, so it's not just a little bit of hair, especially in this warm weather. It must be so nice to have a house that stays clean for more than five minutes. And of course even when I have got it looking clean, I always feel guilty because I've left Oliver on his own while I do it all - motherhood is full of the guilts!

I hate to admit it but I do a bit annoyed with Oliver sometimes, and it's not his fault. I put him down for his nap this morning and sat down to have my breakfast and he woke up two seconds later - he'd only slept for 20 minutes. I rolled my eyes and muttered FFS under my breath and stomped upstairs, only to be greeted by the BIGGEST smile from my gorgeous little boy. I felt like crap And the dogs I've been moaning about have been lying next to him on the floor while I write this, letting him crawl all over them and just licking his feet and wagging their tails at him. I'm such a cow

 

[AngelUK]

I am a cow like that too Bid! We don't have pets but I know moments of FFS only to be smitten to the heart by those smiles and the cooing.

 

[lisa1980]

I'm totally guilty of FFS moments too. Then I feel terrible about it.

I think it's to be expected though. Being woken up every 45mins by screaming/shouting or being kicked in the face would frazzle the calmest person

 

[disneybelle25]

Hey all, I hope Im ok to post here but Im at the end of my tether. LO is 11 weeks tomorrow and is ff. We had gotte into a nice routine where he would go down at 10, and then wake at 3 for a feed then be up around 6 to start the day. Then we had 2 nights where he slept throughand I though great!! And thats when it went wrong. Now hes awake ever hour and a half to 2 hours. Not to feed but just to cuddle. Within 2 minutes of me picking him up hes asleep again and will go down but not long after is up again. Ive tried leaving him to cry but after an hour Im thinking hes not self soothing!! Ive tried swaddling, moving him up to his cot in ou, r room coz I think he has outgrown his crib, Ive tried cutting down naps and letting him sleep when he wants, weve got a bedtime routine... Im lost for a next move!!!

Hun he is too young for that. I don't think at that age he can self soothe if he hasn't done it naturally anyway (some rare babies do but they are rare). And self soothing is not really possible if he is swaddled anyway; as far as I understand it at least (though I swear by swaddling myself!). The reason he wakes up and cries is that his sleep pattern is changing and becoming more like an adult. But this also means that when he half wakes up after a sleep cycle (they usually are about 45mins) he is aware that he is no longer on mummy being rocked and that makes him wake up further and cry. I read that that is as if we went to sleep on a soft comfy fluffy pillow and then half wake realising the pillow is gone. We'd wake further too to find the pillow again, wouldn't we?
We are struggling with this same problem with our older twin. Basically we made the mistake when he was small to rock him all the way to sleep so that now he finds it hard to fall asleep without being rocked. This also means that when he comes out of his sleep cycle he misses the warmth of mummy and the rocking and he cries to have it back. So what I am saying is that you should try to put your LO down soothed and drowsy but awake. It might take a while but he will eventually fall asleep by himself. Good luck hun. xxx

Thanks hun.
The only reason I had left him was because my mil had insisted I should leave him as she thought it was the best way. I hated every second of it and wont be doing it again. Earlier I managed to get him in his cot when he was drowsy for his morning nap and stayed with him til he fell asleep - took about 2 hours but he did go off eventually so going to try again for the afternoon one and again tonight! Thanks for the advice!