is/was your LO a really bad sleeper? support and advise thread!

[MumToEva]

Aha, I really feel for you all! My LO was up 5+ times a night up to about 4 months, so I know what it feels like to get a few hours sleep a night in hour long stretches, if even. Thankfully she's now improved lots, but you all have my sympathy!

Things that helped for my LO were moving her to her own room, putting on her mobile and leaving her to play rather than going straight to feeding her if she wasn't agitated, plus getting her into a better routine of naps during the day (90 minute rule worked for us). I also found that staying around home more so that I could concentrate on getting her into a routine, rather than rushing out to activities all the time helped her a lot too.

But then I'm guessing you have tried all these things already!

again!

 

[Gemmamuk]

My son has never settled well to sleep. Even when he was born and was in nicu the nurses phoned my ward to get me to go settle him as he wouldn't sleep and settle for them!

The first few weeks he woke every two hours for a feed.
Then he refused point blank to sleep anywhere bar my chest!
He then improved and was sleeping 4 hour stretches.
Then out of nowhere at about 3 months he started waking every 30-45 mins - and that's still where we are at! I can usually keep on getting him back off until 9am, but it's getting harder and harder to settle him - it takes me up to an hour to get him asleep for a half hour sleep! And he's started waking at midnight and it takes me 2 hours to settle him!

He only has 2 x 20-minute naps a day - sometimes only 1?

I'm sure he's trying to kill me by torturing me with sleep deprivation lol!
It's like he treats every sleep like a 'nap' and just can't go into the next cycle of sleep?!

 

[sequeena]

My son rarely sleeps. He has 1 nap in the day. Goes to bed around 8pm wakes by 9pm and refuses to sleep again until 2-3am. He then usually wakes every 2 hours or so until around 8-9am when I finally give in and get up for the day. I've not yet found a solution.

 

[lisa1980]

Well my brilliant 'Settle Him in the Cot Whatever Happens' plan is not working as I'd hoped.

Took 1.5 hours to get him to sleep tonight as he cries every time I put him in the cot and it escalates quickly unless I take him out again. Round and round we go until he's so tired that he gives in and sleeps in the cot. I'm not sure if this is actually achieving anything tbh. He still sleeps in with us from midnight anyway so maybe it's mixed messages....

Anyway he finally went down at 8.30pm and has woken up twice since then, taking 15 mins to resettle the last time.

It is hot in the room, even with the fan on and windows open, but I'm not convinced it's that waking him. I just wish I understood why he keeps waking! It feels like it's never going to get better

 

[flippityflop]

Well my brilliant 'Settle Him in the Cot Whatever Happens' plan is not working as I'd hoped.

Took 1.5 hours to get him to sleep tonight as he cries every time I put him in the cot and it escalates quickly unless I take him out again. Round and round we go until he's so tired that he gives in and sleeps in the cot. I'm not sure if this is actually achieving anything tbh. He still sleeps in with us from midnight anyway so maybe it's mixed messages....

Anyway he finally went down at 8.30pm and has woken up twice since then, taking 15 mins to resettle the last time.

It is hot in the room, even with the fan on and windows open, but I'm not convinced it's that waking him. I just wish I understood why he keeps waking! It feels like it's never going to get better

He sounds just like Cormac. I think his problem was he just didn't know how to fall asleep by himself. Thing is with this thread is that I don't think anyone's objective is to get them to STTN, we are hardened sleep deprivation sufferers, everyone would love just one night waking or even 2! Having done what I've done, I won't mention the word, I can clearly see what the problem was. At the time I thought it was hunger, pain, loneliness , temperatureor something that I was just missing and it droves me to insanity trying to figure it out. As someone who has been in your shoes I can now see what his problem was. I'll bet its the same with your LO. I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe take so.e of the pressure and stress off yourself by constantly wondering why he's doing what he's doing. You pretty much know why. As many posters have said he will grow out of it. and you can keep trying what you're trying because it might just work. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and now I have it i wish i could have stopped questioning myself and trying to find an answer. If that makes sense? Be kind to yourself.

If ever you do want to go down my route please feel free to pm me (and no, I'm really not trying to convince anyone to do it!)

 

[lisa1980]

Thanks He's now awake again. OH is trying to settle him but I've a feeling that it won't work.

The constant puzzle of why he wakes sometimes but not others is doing my head in. I feel like i can't break the code. I think you're right - I need to just stop analysing the whole day looking for clues. I wish I was someone who could just accept it for what it is without struggling to 'solve' it but I'm just not that type of person. It's not even the terrible sleep deprivation as such, more the complete unpredictability of it meaning that I just can't rely on anything, or plan anything, or relax.

I really appreciate your offer of pm support if we decide to go that route...at the moment I feel like I might be taking you up on it if things continue like this much longer.

 

[kosh]

Well my brilliant 'Settle Him in the Cot Whatever Happens' plan is not working as I'd hoped.

Took 1.5 hours to get him to sleep tonight as he cries every time I put him in the cot and it escalates quickly unless I take him out again. Round and round we go until he's so tired that he gives in and sleeps in the cot. I'm not sure if this is actually achieving anything tbh. He still sleeps in with us from midnight anyway so maybe it's mixed messages....

Anyway he finally went down at 8.30pm and has woken up twice since then, taking 15 mins to resettle the last time.

It is hot in the room, even with the fan on and windows open, but I'm not convinced it's that waking him. I just wish I understood why he keeps waking! It feels like it's never going to get better

He sounds just like Cormac. I think his problem was he just didn't know how to fall asleep by himself. Thing is with this thread is that I don't think anyone's objective is to get them to STTN, we are hardened sleep deprivation sufferers, everyone would love just one night waking or even 2! Having done what I've done, I won't mention the word, I can clearly see what the problem was. At the time I thought it was hunger, pain, loneliness , temperatureor something that I was just missing and it droves me to insanity trying to figure it out. As someone who has been in your shoes I can now see what his problem was. I'll bet its the same with your LO. I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe take so.e of the pressure and stress off yourself by constantly wondering why he's doing what he's doing. You pretty much know why. As many posters have said he will grow out of it. and you can keep trying what you're trying because it might just work. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and now I have it i wish i could have stopped questioning myself and trying to find an answer. If that makes sense? Be kind to yourself.

If ever you do want to go down my route please feel free to pm me (and no, I'm really not trying to convince anyone to do it!)

i actually think it is a combination of two things, i agree with you that the main problem is that they cannot re-settle by themselves but i also think that our LOs for whatever reason are more prone to wake during the transition between sleep cycles. so maybe a little bit of hunger/pain/temperature is enough for them to go from REM sleep to being awake, and once awake, they can't go back to sleep by themselves. i do believe that they are somehow more alert/sensitive to thiese things.
funnily enough my LO seems to sleep better when he's ill, and i think this is because he's more tired or less 'alert' so that he can transition better between cycles. i was looking at him last night - he would cough and stir but managed to carry on sleeping - it was as if he didn't have enough strength to wake up as usual

 

[kosh]

If ever you do want to go down my route please feel free to pm me (and no, I'm really not trying to convince anyone to do it!)

don't worry - this thread will NOT turn into a heated debate! in a weird way I wish I wasn't so against it, so I could do it, if that makes any sense!
so flippity, can you put Cormac in his cot fully awake and he'll just go to sleep?
wow!

 

[flippityflop]

If ever you do want to go down my route please feel free to pm me (and no, I'm really not trying to convince anyone to do it!)

don't worry - this thread will NOT turn into a heated debate! in a weird way I wish I wasn't so against it, so I could do it, if that makes any sense!
so flippity, can you put Cormac in his cot fully awake and he'll just go to sleep?
wow!

I can, yes. He may fuss for a bit, about 5 mins where he will literally just moan and groan (honestly sounds like an adult is up there having a really big poo, if that makes sense?). But he just normally goes straight to sleep now. Tonight he was shattered and was falling asleep as I was putting him down. In the past that sheer act of him leaving my arms would have had him wide eyed,legs kicking, arm pumping.

I do think you're right about the whole being alert thing. My friend and I have a running joke about alert babies. From the get go people have always said to me "oooh, he's very alert for his age", and I said to my friend that I just don't get this comment. Of course he's alert, he's awake! I mean, my baby has his eyes open so of course he'll look awake!! He doesn't look anymore wake/alert than baby x next to him! Now t baby group when someone brings a newborn and you can guarantee someone will say, "ooh he's very alert", we just look at each other and laugh. Sorry,total waffle but I think its a stupid comment!

S for poor sleepers being more intelligent I think that's also true. I think that's why CC wasn't so bad for us as he got it pretty quick. Obviously now I've got him to sleep he's going to turn into a dunce and I'll have to get him a tutor!

 

[Lilly123]

Im looking for advice as Im a bit out of options - Lily self settles for all naps and bedtimes no problems with her blankie and her dummy. She does however still wake every 2-3 hours from her bedtime. She does not want me to put dummy back but wants me to pick her up and breastfeed her.. she does not really feed, just suckles. If my hubby tries to give her a bottle at night she just screams. Controlled crying does not work for her as she is so determined she will outlast us with the crying. She is 9 months next week. With my 1st baby I did controlled crying with and she slept longer stretches from 6 months but Lily still wakes like a newborn.. help please... she is in her own room, temp is right in her room, so just not sure. Do u think its best to just ride it out and accept it? I have a toddler too so its so exhausting coping in this sleep deprived state. Co-sleeping does not work as she wont sleep in bed with me.. she had colic as a baby so it has never been easy and its almost like she cant sleep longer stretches.. advice would be welcome. oh yes and she eats well in day solids (3 x meals a day) and is exclusively breastfed - feeds every 3-4 hours in day xx

 

[Lilly123]

My son rarely sleeps. He has 1 nap in the day. Goes to bed around 8pm wakes by 9pm and refuses to sleep again until 2-3am. He then usually wakes every 2 hours or so until around 8-9am when I finally give in and get up for the day. I've not yet found a solution.

you poor thing

 

[pinklightbulb]

Just popping in to give hugs, Liam is a crap day sleeper. If I didn't co-sleep I suspect I'd be in this thread.

 

[MrsHedgehog]

We had another midnight bedtime but another great nights sleep. She woke only ONCE!!!! It was a bit of a struggle to get her back to sleep as she actually didn't want to eat so when she tried to nurse and got milk she'd turn away. So she just had to wriggle around a bit until she got back to sleep. This is the first time since she was born that she hasn't fed at night. She woke up a bit too early though so overall didn't really get enough sleep but she had two good stretches of 4 hours!! It's a miracle. If this continues then we can maybe start to gradually bring her bedtime forward a bit again but for now I'm prepared to go with it.

 

[Casey3]

Pretty soon I'm going to join the club! I don't know what's going on tonight but he went to bed at 845 but was up by 930, finally back to sleep just after 10 but woke at 1030 and then finally asleep by 1130 where he managed to sleep til 315 (woo!) but then after going to sleep at 4 he's already up again at 5! He doesn't even seem hungry, just sucking the boob and sleeping... *yawn*

 

[lisa1980]

We had another midnight bedtime but another great nights sleep. She woke only ONCE!!!! It was a bit of a struggle to get her back to sleep as she actually didn't want to eat so when she tried to nurse and got milk she'd turn away. So she just had to wriggle around a bit until she got back to sleep. This is the first time since she was born that she hasn't fed at night. She woke up a bit too early though so overall didn't really get enough sleep but she had two good stretches of 4 hours!! It's a miracle. If this continues then we can maybe start to gradually bring her bedtime forward a bit again but for now I'm prepared to go with it.

That's great!

My LO is only feeding once at night at the moment too, but unfortunately he keeps waking all the time anyway and the trusty trick of 'boob in the mouth asap' is no longer working to get him back to sleep.

Last night wasn't too bad after all. He ended up in our bed from 11pm as he just wouldn't settle. Then he woke at 1am, 3.30am (for 45 mins!), brief stir for dummy at 5am then up for the day at 6.30am. He only fed at the 3.30am wake, despite offering at the others. I don't think this is enough sleep for him overall but he seems pretty cheerful today so who knows

We're moving him to his nursery tonight (with me on the floor on a mattress for the time being) so we'll see how that goes...

Kosh - I'm sure you're right that they just don't know how to settle after a sleep cycle so ANY disturbance causes them to be awake and need to start the whole sleeping routine over again. I feel like I'm partly to blame for this with my LO as I was always with him within 5 secs of him stirring (literally - we used to live in a tiny one-bed flat and I was really conscious of not waking OH or the neighbours) so I guess I never really gave him the chance to see if he could self-settle, and now it's ingrained. I generally don't go in for the whole 'rod for your own back' stuff, but with this I truly wonder....

 

[Claireyb1]

Lisa1980 -" It's not even the terrible sleep deprivation as such, more the complete unpredictability of it meaning that I just can't rely on anything, or plan anything, or relax."

^^^
This is exactly what is doing my head in. I would love to know that she would sleep for at least a few hours after I have put her down,then I might even be able to pop out for a bit??!!
I couldn't go to my "nearly" SIL's hen party last night as I can't tell if she will have a good nigth or not. I'm so glad I didn't attempt it though as it was an awful night!!! topped off with a 4am waking which lasted until
5am for added tiredness I had my 4year old niece over last night for a sleepover too
Thankfully it's the weekend so I was able to leave her with OH when we eventually woke up for the day.
again I will repeat to myself......."IT WILL GET BETTER,IT WILL GET BETTER!"

 

[flippityflop]

Kosh - I'm sure you're right that they just don't know how to settle after a sleep cycle so ANY disturbance causes them to be awake and need to start the whole sleeping routine over again. I feel like I'm partly to blame for this with my LO as I was always with him within 5 secs of him stirring (literally - we used to live in a tiny one-bed flat and I was really conscious of not waking OH or the neighbours) so I guess I never really gave him the chance to see if he could self-settle, and now it's ingrained. I generally don't go in for the whole 'rod for your own back' stuff, but with this I truly wonder....

I believe this is true. I was always attending to every murmur and never gave him a chance. I remember when he was about 7 weeks old I realised that I was the one waking him up and all he was doing was having a wiggle. When I left him then we had 3 weeks of 10pm - 6am stretches.

 

[flippityflop]

Lisa1980 -" It's not even the terrible sleep deprivation as such, more the complete unpredictability of it meaning that I just can't rely on anything, or plan anything, or relax."

^^^
This is exactly what is doing my head in. I would love to know that she would sleep for at least a few hours after I have put her down,then I might even be able to pop out for a bit??!!

This used to drive me crazy and I think you hit the nail in the head. You DO get used to sleep deprivation but not being able to predict anything is really stressful. I put LO down to bed and would literally race to get dinner cooked and eaten in those first 30 minutes. Then he'd wake, I'd settle him and the next 30 minutes would be doing the next chore. I could never relax. OH used to suggest we watch a film and I always said that he should just choose it as I wouldn't see 3/4 of it. I've. seen bits of many many films over the last few months but not one full one! Daytime were just as unpredictable, I never new if I'd have to leave lunch with a friend early as LO was tired and grumpy or if we'd make his swimming lessons as who knew if he'd be asleep or have had a nap to make it worthwhile. I spent 4 months perched on the end if the sofa waiting to rush to LO and settle him.
to you all x

 

[kosh]

^^ totally agree
the way i see it is, he's almost 7months but i feel as if i still had a newborn

 

[lisa1980]

^^ totally agree
the way i see it is, he's almost 7months but i feel as if i still had a newborn

That's exactly it.

I absolutely expected sleepless nights. I expected to have no routine and for everything to be chaos. I happily accepted this when I chose to have a child, as we all did.

What I didn't expect is for his newborn days to actually be better in many ways than now. I didn't expect him to get worse over time, and less predictable. I didn't expect to feel just as clueless about it all now as I did when I first brought him home

I'm not actually that fussed about him sttn...that's not my main issue as I could happily live with a couple of night wakings, but I struggle with the constant adrenaline of not knowing how each evening and night will pan out (day naps are a bit better so I'm lucky there). It's just so hard to plan anything. I can't remember the last meal that OH and I actually ate TOGETHER and/or without LO on one of our laps. I really did not expect this at 8.5 months. Maybe I was naive