IVF Article number Bleh - Egg Collection

[toby2]

morning lovely lady, hope you are having a better day again today
xxx

 

[CurlySue]

Mornin' Toby. Can't seem to sleep in to save my life, but we are going to see Transformers today and I am stupidly excited about that. I think I have 'successfully detached' myself again which is probably the best bet. I'd like to connect with the little embryos, obviously, but I can't so I won't try any more.

Now, going on another thread, it seems that someone else got completely different treatment to me at the very same hospital and that is driving me mad because its eems unreal, doesn't make sense and I am just utterly confused as to why they would essentially lie to me, but that's another matter entirely...

Hope you are doing good, my dear. Am craving popcorn but it won't be long before can buy some. Obviously going to overdose on pick and mix as well. What's a trip to the cinema but an overexpensive day out, eh?

 

[CurlySue]

Ah I am giving up for awhile, I think, taking a break from B&B. It's driving me mad. I'm sick of hearing stories that do not compare to mine and wondering why things are different for them, etc, and I think it's all just driving me mad.

Not good for my sanity, this place, these days!!!!!!

 

[maz]

Sorry you're having a tough time CS. Like you, I felt I needed a break from BnB for a while. I got fed up seeing loads of s when mine just didn't seem to be any closer, and I didn't feel that in my emotionally unbalanced state, I'd be very inspirational for anyone or be able to offer any positive or constructive advice.

What you said about going through IVF more than once ... Anyone that gets their on their first cycle of IVF should count themselves extremely lucky. In my opinion and experience, the first cycle is all new and exciting - after that it's just awful - not exciting, not positive, not hopeful, and certainly not blissful ignorance ... Hopefully you won't need to find that out. Like you I don't think I could do it 8 or 9 times - even if I could afford it, I don't think my nerves or finger nails would allow it.

 

[chocci]

Hey hun, try get some positivity going X

I know exactly how you are feeling as the worst part of IVF / ICSi is defo the 2ww! I think partly because you can do no more, it will either work or it won't so your in limbo which makes your mind play hell with you! Up and down emotions, googling crap, crying, worrying...........its not worth it!

This is your first IVF yes? I think that makes it worse, you have been through the mill these last few weeks and now it starts to catch up with you. I also think the progestrone is the worst part of the treatment as it gives strange symptoms, cramping, twinges and general discomfort which make you switch from thinking oh no AF here and ooooooooo could i be preggers! ITS MADNESS!! Best thing you can do is try keep your self occupied and DONT do what i did and sit looking everything up on google and then crying if it was not what i wanted to read, there is so much out there on the internet and most of it is CRAP from people who know absolutely nothing and talk shit!! I mean for instance people go on about having symptoms just a few days after ovualtion which drives me mad because its not really possible as you know!!! People like that send people like you an I crazy thinking oh no i have not got any symptoms, oh no they had this and they had that and i havent!!! Mate, you will not know until the day you do your test unfortunately so ignore your body until then!

Also stop fretting about the embies! I was told by the embriologist that MANY great looking embies do not take and many POOR embies do! They basically have NO idea what a baby making embie looks like they just use the ones they THINK look the best! MANY babies are born from what they thought were lesser quality embies and in my case apparently mine was TOP quality and it did not work!

We all just need a bit of luck in this part of the cycle and what will be will be........ if them embies are ment to be they will and if not they are not for a reason BUT we will get our babies eventually mate thats what i am sure of........ thinking of you! XX

 

[moxie08]

I mean for instance people go on about having symptoms just a few days after ovualtion which drives me mad because its not really possible as you know!!!

Technically this isn't entirely true. There's a reason why pregnancy is measured from the start of the cycle -- your last known period. Everything up to the point of birth, including pre-conception, is critical to the viability of that birth. Someone who feels 'different' a day past ovulation really does have a better chance of being pregnant.

I'm not advocating obsessing about every symptom from day 1, as the stress does no one any good, but there is actual evidence to show retrospectively that those cycles which resulted in successful conceptions had different symptoms well before implantation.

There is no evidence to suggest why, but we do know that hormone levels vary with every woman. Perhaps this time it varied to the point where it made pregnancy that much more possible. =) It's what we all hope for, isn't it?

 

[chocci]

I mean for instance people go on about having symptoms just a few days after ovualtion which drives me mad because its not really possible as you know!!!

Technically this isn't entirely true. There's a reason why pregnancy is measured from the start of the cycle -- your last known period. Everything up to the point of birth, including pre-conception, is critical to the viability of that birth. Someone who feels 'different' a day past ovulation really does have a better chance of being pregnant.

I'm not advocating obsessing about every symptom from day 1, as the stress does no one any good, but there is actual evidence to show retrospectively that those cycles which resulted in successful conceptions had different symptoms well before implantation.

There is no evidence to suggest why, but we do know that hormone levels vary with every woman. Perhaps this time it varied to the point where it made pregnancy that much more possible. =) It's what we all hope for, isn't it?

Not sure i agree. The vast majority of pregnancy "symptoms" such as sore boobs, darkening of areolas, and sickness which people do go on about are 99% not possible before the missed period. I have read for example many people obsess about suddenly their boobs hurting or areolas darkening and they are only 2 days past ovulation. Darkening areolas is NOT possible before about 6 weeks!!! At the end of the day until implantation HCG levels which are the cause of symptoms do not rise enough for the majority of symptoms until after a missed period. Implantation being earliest day 6 latest day 10! HCG is not released until implantation. Your body DOES NOT know its even slightly pregnant until this hormone is released! It has to build up to significant amounts for you to experience anything and this takes days. In case of multiples it can be quicker as there are 2 placentas releasing more hormone. I had a long dicsussion about this with the consultant and some of the nurses. I quote one of the nurses said pregancy symptoms before a missed period are the vast majority of time psycological. All i am saying is there are many people on these boards especially the TTC boards who have no idea how pregnancy works. This causes anxiety for others who think since they have not had any symptoms they must NOT be pregnant. That anxiety is dangerous!

Technically this isn't entirely true. There's a reason why pregnancy is measured from the start of the cycle -- your last known period. Everything up to the point of birth, including pre-conception, is critical to the viability of that birth. Someone who feels 'different' a day past ovulation really does have a better chance of being pregnant.

Your statment above is true yes pregnancy is measured from the start of the month - but why do you think you would have symptoms before HCG has even entered your body??? Scientifically the statement has no truth.

 

[CurlySue]

Sorry you're having a tough time CS. Like you, I felt I needed a break from BnB for a while. I got fed up seeing loads of s when mine just didn't seem to be any closer, and I didn't feel that in my emotionally unbalanced state, I'd be very inspirational for anyone or be able to offer any positive or constructive advice.

What you said about going through IVF more than once ... Anyone that gets their on their first cycle of IVF should count themselves extremely lucky. In my opinion and experience, the first cycle is all new and exciting - after that it's just awful - not exciting, not positive, not hopeful, and certainly not blissful ignorance ... Hopefully you won't need to find that out. Like you I don't think I could do it 8 or 9 times - even if I could afford it, I don't think my nerves or finger nails would allow it.

I couldn't stay away. Something was peaking my interest and if nothing else its taking my mind off looking up 3dp3dt symptoms, which is utterly ridiculous since there would be none.

Did you get the feeling it was your eggs that was the problem? If that IS the case then I'm fcuked because I just don't know if I could do donor eggs. I thought I could but now I'm in this position I don't think I could go through with it. I couldn't go through this 8 or 9 times either. I think that if this fails (which I think it will) I will do the one more free try. I might do one self funded try and then I'm calling it a day. None of mine were even good enough to freeze, it seems, and that just makes me feel shite.

Horrible thing we have to go through. And seeing these "BFP First Month of Trying" people just makes it even worse.

There's no justice is there?

(great, now I have Lemar in my head)

 

[CurlySue]

Hey hun, try get some positivity going X

I know exactly how you are feeling as the worst part of IVF / ICSi is defo the 2ww! I think partly because you can do no more, it will either work or it won't so your in limbo which makes your mind play hell with you! Up and down emotions, googling crap, crying, worrying...........its not worth it!

This is your first IVF yes? I think that makes it worse, you have been through the mill these last few weeks and now it starts to catch up with you. I also think the progestrone is the worst part of the treatment as it gives strange symptoms, cramping, twinges and general discomfort which make you switch from thinking oh no AF here and ooooooooo could i be preggers! ITS MADNESS!! Best thing you can do is try keep your self occupied and DONT do what i did and sit looking everything up on google and then crying if it was not what i wanted to read, there is so much out there on the internet and most of it is CRAP from people who know absolutely nothing and talk shit!! I mean for instance people go on about having symptoms just a few days after ovualtion which drives me mad because its not really possible as you know!!! People like that send people like you an I crazy thinking oh no i have not got any symptoms, oh no they had this and they had that and i havent!!! Mate, you will not know until the day you do your test unfortunately so ignore your body until then!

Also stop fretting about the embies! I was told by the embriologist that MANY great looking embies do not take and many POOR embies do! They basically have NO idea what a baby making embie looks like they just use the ones they THINK look the best! MANY babies are born from what they thought were lesser quality embies and in my case apparently mine was TOP quality and it did not work!

We all just need a bit of luck in this part of the cycle and what will be will be........ if them embies are ment to be they will and if not they are not for a reason BUT we will get our babies eventually mate thats what i am sure of........ thinking of you! XX

I know what you mean. It's just...I've never really had much luck. I know sometimes that can change but I've never been one of those Four Leaf Clover types.

xxxx

Ours will be the most beautiful, won't they?

 

[CurlySue]

I mean for instance people go on about having symptoms just a few days after ovualtion which drives me mad because its not really possible as you know!!!

Technically this isn't entirely true. There's a reason why pregnancy is measured from the start of the cycle -- your last known period. Everything up to the point of birth, including pre-conception, is critical to the viability of that birth. Someone who feels 'different' a day past ovulation really does have a better chance of being pregnant.

I'm not advocating obsessing about every symptom from day 1, as the stress does no one any good, but there is actual evidence to show retrospectively that those cycles which resulted in successful conceptions had different symptoms well before implantation.

There is no evidence to suggest why, but we do know that hormone levels vary with every woman. Perhaps this time it varied to the point where it made pregnancy that much more possible. =) It's what we all hope for, isn't it?

I have to agree with Chocci on this one. There are people who say "I got a BFP 3dpo" - it's simply not possible. At 3dpo your embryo is 8 cells. It does not reach the blastocyst stage until 5 dpo. It cannot implant into your womb until it is a hatched blastocyst. The pregnancy hormone is not detected in the blood stream until after the embryo has attached itself to the womb lining.

People who say "I knew I was pregnant the day after I ovulated" might have had some human intuition, yes, but physically? They were not pregnant at that stage. They had an embryo but they did not have a pregnancy. Likewise, symptom spotting from 1dpo is utterly pointless because whilst you might have a hormonal shift, that is possible even when NOT pregnant.

I go with science. And, since embarking upon IVF it means a whole lot more to me than it did before. I realise, now, that all that symptom watching I used to do at little more than 2dpo was pointless since it was nothing more than a cell in the fallopian tube at that point.

I, for one, am unhealthy in my obsessive need to know what's going on. I need to step away from it because it eats me up and gives me panic. The thing I am saying to myself now is that I am 3dp3dt, the equivalent of around 6dpo. If this were a normal cycle I'd have no symptoms, so why would I have them now?

 

[chocci]

Hun I agree, and as i have said before there is so much SHIT on the itnernet its untrue. When i look things up no i tend to read the science papers, and leve forums alone. So much ignorance about fertility all over the internet its unreal. Until last November i too was totally ignorant, but going through this, and due to the type of person i am, i have educated myself as to what is going on in my body, my hubbies body, through conception to delivery (if i ever make that haha) Take what you read with a pinch of salt, most of its tripe! The only thing that can tell you you are pregnant is a missed period and a positive test Which makes me realise god was a man!!! If it was a women she would have made some big green dot appear in the center of our foreheads to tell us we had concieved!! haha.......... on the other hand if there was a god at all my lovely caring hubby would be fertile and all the chavs i see having babies would be sterile!!!

xx

 

[moxie08]

The logic of my statement is really quite simple. Chemically speaking, the stage is set for a viable pregnancy well before fertilization. It needs to be, because so many timings and thresholds, if not adequately met, result eventually in menstruation.

Many women experience variation/change in their cycles naturally. It's not difficult to appreciate that some cycles have more potential for a viable pregnancy than others. For example: your most fertile cervical mucus should appear before and during ovulation so that the enough sperm can travel into your tubes and prepare themselves chemically for the arrival of the egg. Then the fertilized egg has a luxury cruise down a hopefully clear fallopian tube. That's the easy part when you consider what a small, small window of time (and chemicals) implantation really is. Those precious little cells are toast unless your lining is just right -- and forget about the lining if the fertilized egg hasn't started producing enough chemicals to rescue the corpus luteum and prevent you from rejecting these foreign cells.

Just enough of a difference in your estrogen and progesterone levels this cycle over the previous might make implantation a success. It also might be a difference you physically notice. They may not be side effects of baby due in 9 months, but they are certainly significant indicators of improved chances of having a baby due in 9 months. <--- from established, scientific evidence.

I'm sure anyone who has experienced chemical pregnancies and miscarriages can attest quite clearly that any symptom at any stage still does not guarantee you a healthy baby at the end of it. So unless noticing every little change in your body gives you a good deal of hope and happiness, I do agree that most people are better off being patient.

 

[Pippin]

Hope you don't mind me chipping in here CurlySue (again she says) as for symptoms early on I agree there is a lot of hype about symptom spotting but the only thing I felt, and I really did feel it was my boobs at 10dpo they really, really hurt (which is what prompted me to test). I had other symptoms around the same time (very cold and snotty) but seriously I think most of it is coincidence but the boobs they were real and for most women that really is the first thing you feel before AF is due. I thought I hadn't been lucky that month as I had no 'symptoms' but there is truth in some, I promise, just not that early on (0-9dpo for me) but can be before period is due. Hope that gives a different perspective.

Anyway still doing all the positive thoughts and vibes for you. Hope you enjoyed transformers. x

 

[Lilly123]

Good luck hun - thinking of u... xxxxx

 

[maz]

Sorry you're having a tough time CS. Like you, I felt I needed a break from BnB for a while. I got fed up seeing loads of s when mine just didn't seem to be any closer, and I didn't feel that in my emotionally unbalanced state, I'd be very inspirational for anyone or be able to offer any positive or constructive advice.

What you said about going through IVF more than once ... Anyone that gets their on their first cycle of IVF should count themselves extremely lucky. In my opinion and experience, the first cycle is all new and exciting - after that it's just awful - not exciting, not positive, not hopeful, and certainly not blissful ignorance ... Hopefully you won't need to find that out. Like you I don't think I could do it 8 or 9 times - even if I could afford it, I don't think my nerves or finger nails would allow it.

I couldn't stay away. Something was peaking my interest and if nothing else its taking my mind off looking up 3dp3dt symptoms, which is utterly ridiculous since there would be none.

Did you get the feeling it was your eggs that was the problem? If that IS the case then I'm fcuked because I just don't know if I could do donor eggs. I thought I could but now I'm in this position I don't think I could go through with it. I couldn't go through this 8 or 9 times either. I think that if this fails (which I think it will) I will do the one more free try. I might do one self funded try and then I'm calling it a day. None of mine were even good enough to freeze, it seems, and that just makes me feel shite.

Horrible thing we have to go through. And seeing these "BFP First Month of Trying" people just makes it even worse.

There's no justice is there?

(great, now I have Lemar in my head)

I didn't have any embryos suitable for freezing either - from both cycles. I don't know if there is a problem with my eggs. On our first cycle we had 11 eggs collected, 8 fertilised, although only 4 fertilised normally, and we got 2 embryos put back. On our second cycle, we had 14 eggs collected, 9 fertilised, but only 3 fertilised normally, with 2 embryos put back. Something in the back of my mind tells me there could be a problem with my eggs. I've not really had any quality checks done on my eggs - only quantity checks. So who knows? If our NHS cycle doesn't work, I'm considering going to Care in Manchester and having further screening done - where I'm getting the money from I don't quite know yet, but we'll work that out if need be ...

I'm with you on the 'I got my first month of trying and now I'm scared' shite. Hubby's cousin got pregnant her first month of trying and talks about how horrendous her pregnancy was and how she doesn't think she could go through that again. Yada yada yada. I don't care how horrendous my MoSi is, how tired I am, or if I have back pain ... I'll still bloody well enjoy it and not take it for granted ...

Rant over!!

How you feeling at the moment? How's the progesterone affecting you?

 

[chocci]

hey Maz, try not to worry about eggs, if there were any issues i woulda thought they would have noticed already, i mean they look at them daily through a microscope and can usually tell if they look less than surley? Though i have to admit i am no expert. How is your hubbies sperm? Does he have any morpology issues, see i say this since my hubby does and we were warned they can only choose sperm that looks good for icsi and there is no garuantee the sperm is good, the sperm is usually the cause of poor fertilisation and i think that is why i only got a 55% fertilisation rate which is crap really but considering the sperm issues we have we did well. Sometimes hte drugs taken in cycles can also affect egg quality you know, remember all them drugs cant help sometimes. try not to stress hun X

 

[MrsJD]

Hi CurlySue,

Well read this thread and now understand, well kind of, where you are with things!

Just wanted to say, GOOD LUCK!



XXXX

 

[maz]

hey Maz, try not to worry about eggs, if there were any issues i woulda thought they would have noticed already, i mean they look at them daily through a microscope and can usually tell if they look less than surley? Though i have to admit i am no expert. How is your hubbies sperm? Does he have any morpology issues, see i say this since my hubby does and we were warned they can only choose sperm that looks good for icsi and there is no garuantee the sperm is good, the sperm is usually the cause of poor fertilisation and i think that is why i only got a 55% fertilisation rate which is crap really but considering the sperm issues we have we did well. Sometimes hte drugs taken in cycles can also affect egg quality you know, remember all them drugs cant help sometimes. try not to stress hun X

Hi chocci

Hubby's swimmers are perfect apparently - no probs with volume, no probs with motility, and no probs with morphology. We didn't need to do ICSI although I'm wondering if it might help us obtain a better fertilisation rate. My fertilisation rate is extremely poor - Cycle 1 36% and cycle 2 21%. The few that do fertilise normally tend to grow until Day 3 at least, but we have a really poor fertilisation rate at Day 1. My FS said my clinic has an average fertilisation rate of above 50% normally fertilised at Day 1, which is why I'm wondering if there maybe is something wrong with my eggs ... perhaps something genetic that obviously can't be seen just by looking at the eggs ... Who knows? Hopefully we'll be pregnant, and stay pregnant on cycle 3 and then not have to worry about it ...

 

[chocci]

Arh right IC. I reakon ICSI probably would help but again i am no expert, its worth asking though At the end of the day its only about £700 or so more on top of a normal IVF cycle so neither here nor there when your paying the £3500 or so for a cycle anyway I suppose! I hope everything works out for you though hun XX

 

[Farie]