Jehovah's Witnesses

[andbabymakes3]

Nope, sorry - Darwin did not renounce his theories. I studied Darwin for many years and feel I can speak on this with some authority. However - I don't have my textbooks to hand to 'prove' it, so will have to revert to the trusty (lol) Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#The_Lady_Hope_story

Science CAN prove carbon dating and the like. CAN prove how old the Earth is. Evolution HAS continued and WILL continue to happen - species' are changing and adapting all the time.

This is where I struggle with 'organised' religion - fingers in ears and 'lalalala I can't hear you' doesn't quite wash with me (I'm not referring to the ladies posting in here btw, I mean religion in general). All religions/holy books are open to interpretation - science is not. It is what it is.

 

[TattiesMum]

I was told as a child I will go to hell if I sin. That is the church of england and I was petrified.

JW's don't belive in hell as they don't see why a god of love would make us suffer for eternity.
Yet they believe that a God of love causes/allows suffering in the form of natural disasters, death, famine, disease, sickness etc etc all as a punishment for Adam and Eve's eating of the apple??


As for wars and famine etc. Thats man made and JW's say god gave us free will. And we choose to do things like go to war, kill, steal etc
Man doesn't choose to get sick, Man doesn't choose floods like those in Pakistan at the moment - yes we have free will in terms of war, stealing and so on.... but that doesn't explain why, for example, innocent children die. JWs explain this by believing that all children are born in sin and are therefore punishable by God - the 'sins of the father'. I just can't reconcile that kind of vengefulness with a loving God

As for wicca etc they believe it is influnced by the devil (something I am very scared of deamons etc) It says it opens the door to let eveil spirts come in.

As for homosexuals I believe if there is a god he should love us regardless. He gave us the ability to love so why should it matter whom me love. Some parts of the bible can be very deep. And not all of it I agree with.

But others have given me comfort. And one day I really hope there will be peace on eath (it may happen who knows) I mean who doesn't.

I really don't see why people hate JW's so much. They are lovely people. There is already to much hate in this world. Why create more? Just because someone is trying to show you something ( You don't have to belive it). Just say no thanks and they will either offer you a magazine and just go or just go. Where is the harm in that?
They are not universally lovely people - any more than any other group of people will be - there are good people and bad people across the board I wouldn't say I hate JWs any more than I would say I hate Jews or Muslims .... what I dislike is individuals who attempt to impose their views on others by any means - be it calling on people uninvited in the sanctity of their own homes, browbeating them with words or right up to acts of terrorism.

You are quite right the bible gives us a basic set of moral codes to live by - put very simply - treat others as you would like to be treated, don't kill or steal or do anything which might harm others and look out for each other. Other Holy Books like the Talmud and the Quoran say much the same things - so how can they be wrong? I truly believe that there is one God - whether we choose to call him Allah, God or Jehova and that if we live our lives to the best of our moral ability then we will be rewarded - but that this is not dependent upon 'belonging' to any man made group and following their man made dictates - no matter how they may use passages from a holy book to justify their actions.

Some of the things people say about them is truly horrible. Just because people don't beleieve what they belive doesn't give them a right to shout abuse (not directed at anyone just in general)
xx

.

 

[TattiesMum]

They jw's say when god brings peace on earth it will be the new system. And they call this the old system. Thats how they explained it to me

So it says the pain will increase. Does that mean there was some pain already?
xx

I guess so but nowhere near as bad, and its the most natural pain you could experience, its not because anything bad is happening or your sick or anything like that, and there would be no complications either x

How does that work? Surely sex is Original Sin so in the new system people won't be having sex .... therefore no childbirth or children

Resurrecting all the dead for eternal life will take up enough space as it is - without children

 

[Serene123]

I feel really confused I wish it didn't make sense!

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Nope, sorry - Darwin did not renounce his theories. I studied Darwin for many years and feel I can speak on this with some authority. However - I don't have my textbooks to hand to 'prove' it, so will have to revert to the trusty (lol) Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#The_Lady_Hope_story

Science CAN prove carbon dating and the like. CAN prove how old the Earth is. Evolution HAS continued and WILL continue to happen - species' are changing and adapting all the time.

This is where I struggle with 'organised' religion - fingers in ears and 'lalalala I can't hear you' doesn't quite wash with me (I'm not referring to the ladies posting in here btw, I mean religion in general). All religions/holy books are open to interpretation - science is not. It is what it is.

I agree with alot of this but lately I am more in tune with nature too. I just believe mother nature was created naturally and she is a powerful enough force on her own. Yes I do believe it happened as a result of a "big bang" vs creation.

 

[flubdub]

Some people seem to be giving ShanandBoc a bit of a hard time; She has been asked dozens of questions, all of which she has answered fully, and politely. I for one am finding it very interesting, despite not being religious.

Can I ask, regarding Adam and Eve; does their existance mean that JW's dont believe we evolved from ape's, but only Adam and Eve? And if so, was there a world before humans were around? Dinosoars etc? Why was there such a long time before humans were on the planet?

Sorry if Im being stupid

Since Christian and JW's believe the same about creation I believe I can answer is, but I apologize if it's not right with JW's teachings. Man was created in God's image, we were never Apes and JW's do not believe in the theory of evolution, in fact by the end of Darwin's life he renounced the theory as well
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created him."
There was a world before humans were created:
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty..."
Humans were created on the last day so there was a 7 day gap between the creation of the earth and all of it's entirety and when humans were created.

Thanks for that. So what about dinosoars/cavemen, things like that. Is it believed that they existed? I have a feeling I am being stupid lol

Jws don't believe dinosaurs existed. (ds would ne gutted, lol!). They also font believe the earth ismilliond of years old. I don't know why they don't believe in dinosaurs... The bible doesn't state what kinds of animal god created (giraffe, dog, lion, lizard, fish). Why cdnt modern beasts have evolved from the ones he created?

Thanks. What are the dinosoar bones then if they didnt exist? x

 

[flubdub]

Well he has succeeded in leading many astray from the bible and God hasnt he, his influence is everywhere around us. In the end God will win, not Satan. Remeber Satan was one of his angles that rebelled as were demons so God is much more powerful.

Satan has ultimately proved the opposite yes, that seperated from God, humans are in misery.

Thankyou, I did not know that

I have been thinkig about this so much the last couple of days, I even had an Adam and Eve dream last night!!

 

[ShanandBoc]

God is an invisible spirit being and lives obviously in heaven

In regards to how the population continued....

Gen. 5:3, 4: “Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.” (One of Adam’s sons was Cain, and one of Adam’s daughters must have become Cain’s wife. At that time in human history when humans still had outstanding physical health and vitality, as indicated by the length of their lives, the likelihood of passing on defects as a result of marrying a close relative was not great. After some 2,500 years of human history, however, when mankind’s physical condition had greatly deteriorated, Jehovah gave to Israel laws forbidding incest.)

so there has been a some sort of evolution, or really de-evolution of the human nature? a progression... easily equated to actual evolution?

Its not really a progreession, as we have come further and further away from perfection, Even with science and medical advances, there are more diseases etc and we still only live to around 90 if we are lucky.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Nope, sorry - Darwin did not renounce his theories. I studied Darwin for many years and feel I can speak on this with some authority. However - I don't have my textbooks to hand to 'prove' it, so will have to revert to the trusty (lol) Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#The_Lady_Hope_story

Science CAN prove carbon dating and the like. CAN prove how old the Earth is. Evolution HAS continued and WILL continue to happen - species' are changing and adapting all the time.

This is where I struggle with 'organised' religion - fingers in ears and 'lalalala I can't hear you' doesn't quite wash with me (I'm not referring to the ladies posting in here btw, I mean religion in general). All religions/holy books are open to interpretation - science is not. It is what it is.

The bible doesnt say how old the earth actually is tho does it? It says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth suggesting that both had been around for
some time. God hadnt just created the heavens ashe created adam and eve had he? The genesis account is the creation of the plant, animal life that we see now and of course humans, all made perfectly fit for our existence.....but its says there was there was water and no doubt some form of vegetation already of the earth.

Sciense does actually agree with the Genesis account of creation itself. To think that the amazing complexity of nature, the universe, our bodies, the amazing human brain came about by pure chance is illogical imo.

If i was to tell you that the simple computer you are sitting on (which doesnt even compare to the human brain) had no designer and no creator you would think i was mad

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

I was told as a child I will go to hell if I sin. That is the church of england and I was petrified.

JW's don't belive in hell as they don't see why a god of love would make us suffer for eternity.
Yet they believe that a God of love causes/allows suffering in the form of natural disasters, death, famine, disease, sickness etc etc all as a punishment for Adam and Eve's eating of the apple??

[B]He gave us free wil. He didn't create war,famine,death. WE DID. Us humans decided it would be ok to kill each other and watch others starve everyday.[/COLOR][/B]As for wars and famine etc. Thats man made and JW's say god gave us free will. And we choose to do things like go to war, kill, steal etc
Man doesn't choose to get sick, Man doesn't choose floods like those in Pakistan at the moment - yes we have free will in terms of war, stealing and so on.... but that doesn't explain why, for example, innocent children die. JWs explain this by believing that all children are born in sin and are therefore punishable by God - the 'sins of the father'. I just can't reconcile that kind of vengefulness with a loving God

Jw's don't believe children are born in sin. Thats why they don't have christenings because they belive a baby is pure and cannot sin. We get sick because of the world around us. Virus's etc. It coulc be argued that he would take all that away but the time will come when he will (jw's belieifs)
As for wicca etc they believe it is influnced by the devil (something I am very scared of deamons etc) It says it opens the door to let eveil spirts come in.

As for homosexuals I believe if there is a god he should love us regardless. He gave us the ability to love so why should it matter whom me love. Some parts of the bible can be very deep. And not all of it I agree with.

But others have given me comfort. And one day I really hope there will be peace on eath (it may happen who knows) I mean who doesn't.

I really don't see why people hate JW's so much. They are lovely people. There is already to much hate in this world. Why create more? Just because someone is trying to show you something ( You don't have to belive it). Just say no thanks and they will either offer you a magazine and just go or just go. Where is the harm in that?
They are not universally lovely people - any more than any other group of people will be - there are good people and bad people across the board I wouldn't say I hate JWs any more than I would say I hate Jews or Muslims .... what I dislike is individuals who attempt to impose their views on others by any means - be it calling on people uninvited in the sanctity of their own homes, browbeating them with words or right up to acts of terrorism.

Like I said the world has far to much hate. If people just said no thank you. They would go away and maybe offer a magaizne. There is no need to shout abuse atthem, call them names and basically belittle them. Why can't people just polity say, sorry we don't agree with you so can you not call again.
You are quite right the bible gives us a basic set of moral codes to live by - put very simply - treat others as you would like to be treated, don't kill or steal or do anything which might harm others and look out for each other. Other Holy Books like the Talmud and the Quoran say much the same things - so how can they be wrong? I truly believe that there is one God - whether we choose to call him Allah, God or Jehova and that if we live our lives to the best of our moral ability then we will be rewarded - but that this is not dependent upon 'belonging' to any man made group and following their man made dictates - no matter how they may use passages from a holy book to justify their actions.

Jehova is actually gods name. God is just a title like king,father etc. It was actually said a few times in my old bible reffereing to god as Jehova. I was shocked at this put my mum who is a christian said yes that is his name. It is constantly repeated in teh bible but some choose to take it out. For example some people belive jesus died in a cross. The JW's said he didn't it was a pole. Now I refused to belive this as a christian so I went to my old bible. At the botton of the oage under the scriptures it said " Jesus died on what the greeks call "Stauros" Which actually translates to tree or pole. This angered me a bit. As I had worn a cross since I was a little girl and believed it was a symbol of my faith. But the bible before it is translated into english says starous. So where did they get cross from?Some of the things people say about them is truly horrible. Just because people don't beleieve what they belive doesn't give them a right to shout abuse (not directed at anyone just in general)
xx

xx
.

My answere is blue

 

[TattiesMum]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

Evolution defies logic, but the entire population of the world being created from two people and a whole lot of incest doesn't?

Apart from anything else mitochondrial DNA disproves that all people are descended from one common female ancestor

 

[ShanandBoc]

Some people seem to be giving ShanandBoc a bit of a hard time; She has been asked dozens of questions, all of which she has answered fully, and politely. I for one am finding it very interesting, despite not being religious.

Can I ask, regarding Adam and Eve; does their existance mean that JW's dont believe we evolved from ape's, but only Adam and Eve? And if so, was there a world before humans were around? Dinosoars etc? Why was there such a long time before humans were on the planet?

Sorry if Im being stupid

Since Christian and JW's believe the same about creation I believe I can answer is, but I apologize if it's not right with JW's teachings. Man was created in God's image, we were never Apes and JW's do not believe in the theory of evolution, in fact by the end of Darwin's life he renounced the theory as well
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created him."
There was a world before humans were created:
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty..."
Humans were created on the last day so there was a 7 day gap between the creation of the earth and all of it's entirety and when humans were created.

Thanks for that. So what about dinosoars/cavemen, things like that. Is it believed that they existed? I have a feeling I am being stupid lol

Jws don't believe dinosaurs existed. (ds would ne gutted, lol!). They also font believe the earth ismilliond of years old. I don't know why they don't believe in dinosaurs... The bible doesn't state what kinds of animal god created (giraffe, dog, lion, lizard, fish). Why cdnt modern beasts have evolved from the ones he created?

Thanks. What are the dinosoar bones then if they didnt exist? x

I did answer this a few page back. Of course they believe in dinosaurs. Go to any mueseum and its clear they existed....But they didnt co exist wiht humans and who know why they were put on the earth prior to the creation account. Theory is to keep down vegetation etc on the earth at the time, no one really knows, but we sure dont dent their existence!! x

 

[flubdub]

So really Adam and Eve messed it all up for us? x

 

[LandN]

I had horrible nightmare that apes and monekys were taking over the world and me and my family had to run and take cover, very strange.
Anyway haha... it all confuses me so much but i do find it intressting, i seam to believe in god and angels at times(even though im not religious), but for the bible i dont know i just feel like what if someone just made it up even though i havent read it (maybe thats my problem, i dont know enough about it), how would anyone know? and sometimes i wonder if jesus was infact just a hypnotist.. and if god's invisable then how do people know hes there?

I suppose you could find millions of questions to ask about it, i just think now maybe i shouldnt be so quick to say this and this, when really i dont know harldy anyting about any relgion to say i dont believe in this or that.

All i knew growing up was jesus, god and adam and eve and satan thats it really... I used to get scared though as when you spelt my name backwards it has satan in it and that played on my mind when i was at school. My names natasha.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I have to say ladies, one of the more interesting debates I have read.

My only problem is, how can any religion argue with evolution?

The creator of the evolution theory Charles darwin, actually rennounced it before his death. Evolution defies logic, and science actually agrees with the order of creation as stated in Genesis.

Evolution defies logic, but the entire population of the world being created from two people and a whole lot of incest doesn't?

Apart from anything else mitochondrial DNA disproves that all people are descended from one common ancestor

In regards to how the population continued....

Gen. 5:3, 4: “Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.” (One of Adam’s sons was Cain, and one of Adam’s daughters must have become Cain’s wife. At that time in human history when humans still had outstanding physical health and vitality, as indicated by the length of their lives, the likelihood of passing on defects as a result of marrying a close relative was not great. After some 2,500 years of human history, however, when mankind’s physical condition had greatly deteriorated, Jehovah gave to Israel laws forbidding incest.)

Ok so then according to your point of view we had to all of decended from two original apes then?

 

[Aidan's Mummy]

Scentists think that life began on an edge of a tidal pool deep in the ocean. They said that chemicals spontantiously assembles into bubble like structures. Formed molecules and began to replicate and there life began

That seems far fetched to me. I struggle to get my head round how we came about from each argument faith and science because each seem very unlikley
Oh well we will find out one day (hopefully)
xx

 

[lauren-kate]

Ok so then according to your point of view we had to all of decended from two original apes then?

There would have been more than the two original apes. A population of 'apes' would have evolved from another species.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I was told as a child I will go to hell if I sin. That is the church of england and I was petrified.

JW's don't belive in hell as they don't see why a god of love would make us suffer for eternity.
Yet they believe that a God of love causes/allows suffering in the form of natural disasters, death, famine, disease, sickness etc etc all as a punishment for Adam and Eve's eating of the apple??

The suffering and death wont last forever tho, he will more than make it up to us in paradise......we will be able to enjoy the real life then.

And the love he showed sending his son to earth as a ransom to buy back what Adam lost proves his love for us. The way that the planet was designed for our maximum enjoyment shows his love also

Adam and Eves blatant disobideince even tho they had everything they wanted and more raised some serious questions.... would and can humans remain faithful even when tempted, even under trial? It challenged Gods right to rule, and this couldnt be resolved just by wiping out Adam and eve and starting again, remember thousdands of angels would have been watching, as well as the instigator, Satan. How would that have made God look, like he thought they were right?

By following the bible and Gods laws closely now, as imperfect humans with many trials and temptations, millions are proving satan a liar

Time was needed to prove once and for all, the outcome if humans were left to rule themselves. He has allowed time for us to reach our full potentials in alot of ways. But have we really progressed, does human rule fail? Are we capable of looking after the earth without his guidance? The answer is very clear. x


As for wars and famine etc. Thats man made and JW's say god gave us free will. And we choose to do things like go to war, kill, steal etc
Man doesn't choose to get sick, Man doesn't choose floods like those in Pakistan at the moment - yes we have free will in terms of war, stealing and so on.... but that doesn't explain why, for example, innocent children die. JWs explain this by believing that all children are born in sin and are therefore punishable by God - the 'sins of the father'. I just can't reconcile that kind of vengefulness with a loving God

Of we dont want these things, but its a fact that the droughts, floods etc stem back to global warming....alot of these natural disasters do.... thus proving once and for all how without his guidance we fail, we are destroying our planet.

As for wicca etc they believe it is influnced by the devil (something I am very scared of deamons etc) It says it opens the door to let eveil spirts come in.

As for homosexuals I believe if there is a god he should love us regardless. He gave us the ability to love so why should it matter whom me love. Some parts of the bible can be very deep. And not all of it I agree with.

But others have given me comfort. And one day I really hope there will be peace on eath (it may happen who knows) I mean who doesn't.

I really don't see why people hate JW's so much. They are lovely people. There is already to much hate in this world. Why create more? Just because someone is trying to show you something ( You don't have to belive it). Just say no thanks and they will either offer you a magazine and just go or just go. Where is the harm in that?
They are not universally lovely people - any more than any other group of people will be - there are good people and bad people across the board I wouldn't say I hate JWs any more than I would say I hate Jews or Muslims .... what I dislike is individuals who attempt to impose their views on others by any means - be it calling on people uninvited in the sanctity of their own homes, browbeating them with words or right up to acts of terrorism.

ok so preaching out of love and as instructed by Jesus can be compred to terrorisim? Not at all im afraid.

You are quite right the bible gives us a basic set of moral codes to live by - put very simply - treat others as you would like to be treated, don't kill or steal or do anything which might harm others and look out for each other. Other Holy Books like the Talmud and the Quoran say much the same things - so how can they be wrong? I truly believe that there is one God - whether we choose to call him Allah, God or Jehova and that if we live our lives to the best of our moral ability then we will be rewarded - but that this is not dependent upon 'belonging' to any man made group and following their man made dictates - no matter how they may use passages from a holy book to justify their actions.

Its not man made dictates, its god laws

Some of the things people say about them is truly horrible. Just because people don't beleieve what they belive doesn't give them a right to shout abuse (not directed at anyone just in general)
xx

.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Ok so then according to your point of view we had to all of decended from two original apes then?

There would have been more than the two original apes. A population of 'apes' would have evolved from another species.

Ok so why dont we still evolve from the apes? No animals now evovle into any kind that is not their own do they??

 

[lauren-kate]

Ok so then according to your point of view we had to all of decended from two original apes then?

There would have been more than the two original apes. A population of 'apes' would have evolved from another species.

Ok so why dont we still evolve from the apes? No animals now evovle into any kind that is not their own do they??

All animals are still evolving. The time-scale means that most differences and changes are not noticeable though. Animals are dying out, other animals are more successful, and so are surviving. If we waited long enough, animals would evolve into a different kind of animal.