Jimmy Savile allegations

I think it's fair. What I don't think is fair is asking the victims/survivors why they waited until now (which I've seen posted in various places outside of this forum). I think the important thing to remember is disclosure is very painful and if some weren't ready to disclose until now then it's absolutely fine, they deserve to be believed and they deserve support.

Sequeena - good luck :hugs: xx
 
I have no judgement on either side. He maybe did it and it was abhorrent, he maybe didn't and for some reason is now being targeted, I have no idea what the truth is, but there are some things about the way this is handled which is making me uncomfortable.

I'm bothered by the comments from the Metropolitan police "At this stage it is quite clear from what women are telling us that Savile WAS a predatory sex offender," said Commander Peter Spindler" and that his abuse " WAS on a national scale" and he "HAD a predilection for teenage girls" " This may well be the case, and I'm not saying any of the ladies who have come forward have lied, but from a police point of view, should they be making such bold statements confirming guilt, when there has been no due process? I'd prefer not to hear the police playing judge and jury. It is rare for them to do so without inserting a "we have reason to believe" or "our evidence points to" even when there is pretty much no doubt. For me it casts doubt on the impartiality of the police in the case so far, and indicates they either have something to prove about their organisation or are trying to over compensate for a situation where they perhaps didn't follow this up in the past.

I also worry that so many high profile people are coming out now and saying "yeah, we knew it but did nothing because we were fearful" It's one thing for victims to be afraid of coming forward as scared teenagers, or not being believed when they did etc and that is entirely understandable. But for Esther Rantzen to do nothing, for Janet Street Porter to do nothing? These women have always been very strong personalities and JSP especially has made a career out of speaking out and going against the grain, standing up against "the establishment" especially from a feminist standpoint. Perhaps, as fledgling employees they might have kept quiet. But Rantzen started childline. By then her career was bigger than the BBC or the establishment, and certainly at any point in the last 10-15 years she could have exposed this without fear of retribution, she had the power to do so. Why didn't she? In 2008 when these rumours last surfaced, why didn't she?

Then there are the claims that here was this "larger than life" celebrity, well loved, with an iconic profile that was beyond reproach and because of this it was hushed up by "people" (whomever they all were) This doesn't sit well with me. Jonathan King was such a person. Garry Glitter was such a person. And yet the police took those allegations seriously and it ended up with a conviction. (albeit, perhaps because Glitter was abroad, it made a difference) People have done it before, why is his case so different?

Savile is again being linked with Haute Le Garenne in Jersey. That was a case which was fairly robustly investigated at the time, and the rumours of his involvement were rife. But despite investigation, there was no proof of this. And this was where victim's claims were being taken seriously, so why would they say "yes sure, we believe you and will seriously investigate Mr x, y and z, but you are lying when you say Jimmy Savile was involved" Doesn't add up.

For the most part, I'm never a fan of besmirching someone's character after they have died when they cannot defend themselves and it must be terrible for his family to have to go through this. I'd prefer if the matter was being investigated purely to raise prosecutions against any living person who either facilitated this, or was involved in it, which might give some closure to victims, rather than what it can only ever be, a case of "he said, she said" because it can't ever be proven.

I've never been through it so maybe someone else can help me out here. What can be gained from having a public acceptance that you were telling the truth, rather than having a private acceptance that you were telling the truth? What I mean is, would it be just as helpful to you in this situation to have someone say "yes, we believe he did it, we are sorry it happened, this is how we will stop it happening in the same way again" Or is it better to have the whole world left debating it because a prosecution can never happen?

As I said, I have no view on whether he did it or not. I never liked the guy. I found him to be rather creepy and very odd. But of course, that doesn't make him guilty. Something happened, of that I'm fairly certain. There is too much chatter for that not to be the case.
 
Great post Foo. I imagine the public thing is to prevent it ever happening again. What I mean by this is that I had a private apology from an establishment that had ruined my life (different to this I know) to some degree, and that wasnt enough. I wanted local people to know, I wanted awareness because for me awareness meant smaller chances of it happening again. I think if you have spent so many years holding this all in, afraid, then it must be a release to finally let it out. Also in this case I think they probably dont people remembering him as an all-giving saint who did loads for charity.

You mention about the police not being impartial, did you see the PM backs the petition for him to be stripped of his knighthood? Shouldnt he allow the correct people to investigate this before coming out with statements like that? :nope:
 
Totally agree on the knighthood. Is there a bandwagon Dave won't jump on? It's so transparent. And ridiculous as the honour disappears on death, so let's take away something that isn't there anymore
 
If there was a public apology from that establishment, without naming an individual, would that suffice? I'm just wondering why it is so important to victims to have him named and shamed, when there is no chance of him ever doing it again, and no chance of it being proven so leaves them open to criticism and accusations of lying.
 
I don't doubt its true and its unsuprising he was allowed to get away with for so long, as a celebrity he had power and, when it began, it was something people didn't talk about.
I have no idea where i stand on his knighthood, i do think the entire affair needs proper investigation and any adults who were responsible for these girls and knew what was happening need to face the consequences however, ultimately Saville is the one to blame and is beyond the justice system now.
 
For me personally it would but then I couldn't bare to be chalked a liar over what I went through as a child so haven't told people in my RL let alone the world. I guess it is an individual thing as to what will 'satisfy' them.
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...-Mandeville-to-find-young-girls-to-abuse.html

What the actual fuck? Those nurses KNEW what he was doing and still allowed him in to pick a young girl as and when he wanted??? As if he was someone in a sweet shop choosing which sweets to buy????? This is absolutely sickening. Why didn't they stop him?

I have never ever like Saville he always struck me as creepy as did Glitter. Sickos.
 
I heard this on the news tonight, and can't believe they would let it happen. There is a suggestion Stoke Mandeville bosses did nothing because he gave them so much funding. That turned my stomach.

One thing which is coming up again and again though, which is worth considering, is that society did have a different view at the time, our culture was a more sexist one, so when talking about teenage girls and older men, it maybe wasn't considered quite as wrong as it is now. Of course that doesn't excuse what anyone did, just maybe goes some way to explaining why it was glossed over more than it would be nowadays.
 
How long ago did it all happen? I know it began forty years ago, but I think it went on for a long time didnt it? The reason I ask is I dont think it was that different say twenty years ago, so even if it wasnt stopped forty years ago, why did no step in since then?
 
I can't believe just how many people are alleged to have known about it :wacko: it must've been something bigger than the fear of losing charity fundraising which prevented him from being convicted. It just doesn't make sense.

I mean, I just cant imagine a world where a fucking marathon-running ex dj with some wideboy friends could have free reign to molest so many children!

There is something very sinister about why this wasn't bought to light earlier imo.
 
How long ago did it all happen? I know it began forty years ago, but I think it went on for a long time didnt it? The reason I ask is I dont think it was that different say twenty years ago, so even if it wasnt stopped forty years ago, why did no step in since then?

Some have suggested it could have been as late as the early 80's. I have no doubt things would have began to change then, but not to the enlightened times we are in now. I also can't understand why in the intervening years, even when it was part of another investigation, no-one spoke up.

I agree with RedRose, something bigger than just him must have been at play, for so many to keep so quiet.
 
Just seeing the headline from yesterday's daily mail screaming "unmask the other BBC abusers" Surely it's more important the police can investigate, and only when there is sufficient evidence, should anyone be named. Freddie Starr may or may not have been involved but already his name will now forever be linked with this, regardless of the outcome. Again, because he is a bit odd, people will condemn him before the facts are established. I hate this hysterical media crap.
 
Just watching the 'Exposed' documentary, I feel sick at this whole thing:sick:

There's so much more to this, my personal opinion is that he was a child abuser. Will be interesting to see how this pans out and I hope the people he abused may one day get justice.
 
There is a time line here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19921658

It seems according to that, there stopped being reports in the 90's

I was watching 'the wright stuff' this morning. He said that he once phoned him on a unrelated matter. The firs thing he said when he picked up the phone was "I swear she said she was 16"
It seems that he was very open about this behavior. Almost too honest, like so open and honest that people thought it was a joke. :wacko:
As for the people who knew and didnt report it, I think thats one thing. Its the people who didnt investigate it that I think should lose sleep at night.
 
I saw that as well Nibblenic:nope: Very odd thing to say when someone phones you about something completely unrelated.
 
Just been watching This Morning and there is an allegation that Jimmy Savile abused a 9 year old boy back in the 1970s :|
 
I have no judgement on either side. He maybe did it and it was abhorrent, he maybe didn't and for some reason is now being targeted, I have no idea what the truth is, but there are some things about the way this is handled which is making me uncomfortable.

I'm bothered by the comments from the Metropolitan police "At this stage it is quite clear from what women are telling us that Savile WAS a predatory sex offender," said Commander Peter Spindler" and that his abuse " WAS on a national scale" and he "HAD a predilection for teenage girls" " This may well be the case, and I'm not saying any of the ladies who have come forward have lied, but from a police point of view, should they be making such bold statements confirming guilt, when there has been no due process? I'd prefer not to hear the police playing judge and jury. It is rare for them to do so without inserting a "we have reason to believe" or "our evidence points to" even when there is pretty much no doubt. For me it casts doubt on the impartiality of the police in the case so far, and indicates they either have something to prove about their organisation or are trying to over compensate for a situation where they perhaps didn't follow this up in the past.

I also worry that so many high profile people are coming out now and saying "yeah, we knew it but did nothing because we were fearful" It's one thing for victims to be afraid of coming forward as scared teenagers, or not being believed when they did etc and that is entirely understandable. But for Esther Rantzen to do nothing, for Janet Street Porter to do nothing? These women have always been very strong personalities and JSP especially has made a career out of speaking out and going against the grain, standing up against "the establishment" especially from a feminist standpoint. Perhaps, as fledgling employees they might have kept quiet. But Rantzen started childline. By then her career was bigger than the BBC or the establishment, and certainly at any point in the last 10-15 years she could have exposed this without fear of retribution, she had the power to do so. Why didn't she? In 2008 when these rumours last surfaced, why didn't she?

Then there are the claims that here was this "larger than life" celebrity, well loved, with an iconic profile that was beyond reproach and because of this it was hushed up by "people" (whomever they all were) This doesn't sit well with me. Jonathan King was such a person. Garry Glitter was such a person. And yet the police took those allegations seriously and it ended up with a conviction. (albeit, perhaps because Glitter was abroad, it made a difference) People have done it before, why is his case so different?

Savile is again being linked with Haute Le Garenne in Jersey. That was a case which was fairly robustly investigated at the time, and the rumours of his involvement were rife. But despite investigation, there was no proof of this. And this was where victim's claims were being taken seriously, so why would they say "yes sure, we believe you and will seriously investigate Mr x, y and z, but you are lying when you say Jimmy Savile was involved" Doesn't add up.

For the most part, I'm never a fan of besmirching someone's character after they have died when they cannot defend themselves and it must be terrible for his family to have to go through this. I'd prefer if the matter was being investigated purely to raise prosecutions against any living person who either facilitated this, or was involved in it, which might give some closure to victims, rather than what it can only ever be, a case of "he said, she said" because it can't ever be proven.

I've never been through it so maybe someone else can help me out here. What can be gained from having a public acceptance that you were telling the truth, rather than having a private acceptance that you were telling the truth? What I mean is, would it be just as helpful to you in this situation to have someone say "yes, we believe he did it, we are sorry it happened, this is how we will stop it happening in the same way again" Or is it better to have the whole world left debating it because a prosecution can never happen?

As I said, I have no view on whether he did it or not. I never liked the guy. I found him to be rather creepy and very odd. But of course, that doesn't make him guilty. Something happened, of that I'm fairly certain. There is too much chatter for that not to be the case.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, apart from the bit in bold! Sorry I know this is fairly off topic, but it is something which I feel very strongly about...during the Jersey child abuse investigation they only ever convicted 7 people...from hundreds of statements and nearing 200 victims. They were not taken as seriously as Jersey would've had the world believe. Jersey is a vile vile place with corruption and cover ups running so deep it is almost unbelievable. Pretty much everyone in a position of 'power' who tried to make a stand against the children's homes cover-ups has been imprisoned at some point, or have all been forced into resignation/retirement.
 
I'm glad all the allegations have come out to be honest. Jimmy Savile was a celebrated man who was honoured as a sir and had a road named after him. If he did do this then he deserves to not be celebrated and be stripped off his sir title. And I find it quite ironic that Esther Rantzen knew about gossip but didn't pursue it any further but then proceeded to open childline. I know times were different back then but I just don't understand how or why so many people kept quiet. It is quite disturbing, I'm constantly questioning what else is swept under the rug?
 
I see they're talking to Gary Glitter. Presumably someone has raised a complaint against him. This confuses me. He was done in Thailand years ago. Surely that would be the point to come forward? There would be a good chance you'd be able to do so with no fear?
 

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