Monogamy

[Ozzieshunni]

I didn't interpret that if your husband isn't a polygamist he must be seeing prostitutes. Rather that "monogamy" doesn't secure fidelity. You may be the one taking things personally here.

I agree. This is just a debate. We're meant to question and explore our own personal views as well as explore and question the views of others.

 

[chellebelle8]

Ozzie...so sorry to hear you were in an abusive relationship. Well done for having the strength to move on. Divorce does have its place for this reason imo x

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Thanks. I'm not overly keen on the "until death do us part." Sometimes, people naturally grow apart and just don't feel for each other what they once did. But that's another debate

 

[summer rain]

That's a bit of a generalisation, there are several Muslim societies where polygamy is legal yet there are more women than men in the workforce, with their own businesses and studying at university level, even more so than in the US. Even in those societies viewed more negatively, this negative viewpoint is often based on false stereotypes. Talking about 'East and West Africa' like its one homogenous blob of a country is insulting to say the least. Not every African country where FGM is practiced has polygamy and not every African country where polygamy is practiced is FGM found there.

Some societies where polygamy is or was common are strongly matriarchal, look at the Navajo. Although its no longer online a well known Navajo feminist had a blog that was very pro-polygamy and she rued the fact that polygamy was far less common amongst her people now as it did have many benefits for them. Anyone who knows how Navajo society works knows its the mothers and grandmothers who are asked for a girl's hand in marriage and they have much of the power financially as well. I don't consider more traditional societies than ours to be backwards by default nor do I consider the marriage vows made up by Church leaders in a few western Christian churches to be a model of marriage that all humankind should abide by, that is very imperialistic in my opinion. Just because someone has a different view of a normal model of marriage to you or what is commitment to a person in a relationship doesn't make it wrong. As for diseases etc far higher risk of those with serial monogamy and men sleeping with prostitutes, most of those in polygamy have on average slept with less partners than those in monogamy. Xx

Are you saying that if your husband isnt a polygamist he is sleeping with prostitues?! LMAO! That is the craziest thin I have heard. It may not be wrong to some (thats an opinion), but it can be wrong to others (also an opinion) and here, against the law, so the courts also agree its WRONG. It isnt even just about a religion to some, its about MORALS. I think you are taking his too personally hon.

I never said that. You're the one who is reading things that aren't there. I was merely saying that a polygamous arrangement where all are committed to each other and who haven't had relationships prior is less of an STD risk than a situation where a man has had multiple partners before the marriage or who regularly sees prostitutes or other women while he is married and I in no way said this is everyone not in polygamy but it is something that does happen. It was fairly commonplace when I used to live in some back of beyond town up north for the men to have affairs and see prostitutes. They thought nothing of it and the women kinda knew but they turned a blind eye. Believe me after living somewhere like that where wife beating was also common I'm really not going to be making moral judgements on any other society xx

 

[Jaylynne]

I have zero issues with someone divorcing their spouse over abuse. Zero. No one should live in a relationship where they live in fear, pain or emotional agony. Marriage is supposed to build each other up and make better. Not use the other as a stepping stool.

Love doesn't abuse. Selfishness does.

 

[summer rain]

Jasmak, Summer rain is one of the most level headed people on this forum. It's a stretch to say she takes things personally.

Also, I was married once before. My ex was abusive. So, I should have stayed with him until death do us part?

Thank you. I was also in an abusive monogamous relationship, well marriage actually with a Muslim man but one who followed the culture he had been brought up in, which was a very backward, white working class culture in a small town in the north of England. He'd grown up believing it was acceptable to beat up for wife for looking at you funny, for ironing your shirt wrong, for even wanting to go shopping with you etc. All his dad's work colleagues and friends were hitting their wives/girlfriends or treating them like crap too. His dad had been married three times (not at once), first two wives had left in fear of their lives because they were so badly abused but they were seen as troublemakers not victims, by friends and family. I called my ex FIL a misogynist to his face and he took it as a massive compliment.

Towards the end of my marriage to my ex he had been having an affair so I can tell you now being cheated on and consenting to your spouse taking another wife or partner is not the same thing at all, the two are just not comparable. If I had been from a religion where divorce wasn't permissible, and actually several Islamic scholars said I had no choice but to get divorced from such a low life, I would have been trapped until death with this man, never would have had children (he refused to have kids with me saying I wouldn't be a good mother) and would have been absolutely miserable. I was only 21 when I got divorced from him. My husband now is an absolute gem, would not change him for anything yet he does have polygamist leanings, something he was always honest about, we are very happy together and we are soul-mates, he has work commitments that also take up his time but any spare time he has is devoted to me and the kids. I do believe some men are capable of loving more than one woman and being scrupulously fair I have seen many cases of this Xx

 

[Jaylynne]

How can one be soul mates with multiple wives? Maybe I just don't get it. I do see it as having cake and eating it too.

What would your husband say if you wanted more than one husband summer rain? Fair play to me is that it has to go both ways. If he would be jealous then to me, that's hypocrisy. Women as a general rule need the emotional connection with their husband and the husband craves the physical connection and support from the wife. Just sounds like a hard game if juggling to me.

I would seriously consider divorce if my husband wanted to marry other women as well. I would feel inadequate.

Maybe it's because I wasn't raised in a religion that sees polygamy as normal. Not sure. I just see having multiple wives as a bit greedy.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I remember seeing a documentary about multiple wives. They said that it wasn't about greed. It was just a family unit. They don't see it any differently than a man having one wife.

 

[summer rain]

How can one be soul mates with multiple wives? Maybe I just don't get it. I do see it as having cake and eating it too.

What would your husband say if you wanted more than one husband summer rain? Fair play to me is that it has to go both ways. If he would be jealous then to me, that's hypocrisy. Women as a general rule need the emotional connection with their husband and the husband craves the physical connection and support from the wife. Just sounds like a hard game if juggling to me.

I would seriously consider divorce if my husband wanted to marry other women as well. I would feel inadequate.

Maybe it's because I wasn't raised in a religion that sees polygamy as normal. Not sure. I just see having multiple wives as a bit greedy.

I wouldn't want to have multiple husbands I have never had any interest in it and it wouldn't appeal to me, never has, never will, nor is it allowed in my religion (which i converted to in my teens) so its not a matter of if my husband would 'allow' it or not. I believe there is wisdom in why its allowed one way and not the other. As for the soulmate thing yes I do believe its possible to have a soulmate who is in a relationship with someone else. I don't want to go into too much personal detail but lets just say friends whose husband married again it has only made them closer and more devoted to each other, often a man will realise his other wife has many good points he kind of took for granted before. Some men can be better husbands in polygamy than monogamy, they actually become less selfish and better people. Most polygamous men as well at least from what I've seen, pretty much devote all their time to their families, they don't go out with the 'boys' and they tend to drop any outside hobbies so they have more time for their wives and children. I know plenty of young women married as an only wife who never see their husband because he's always out tinkering with his car, with friends until the early hours or on the Xbox/wii/ps3 so which is getting more quality time with her husband? Xx

 

[BintUmmi]

I don't think polygamy is about greed either. Marriage is a commitment, a serious commitment and being someones spouse is about fulfilling emotional, financial, needs as much as it is about sex or anything else.

I guess maybe it depends on your societies/cultures view on marriage but I know from my point of view marriage is a huge responsibility on a man (and on a woman too) so the decision to take another wife wouldn't be as flippant as 'because I want as many women as I can get' or anything like that. If that makes sense I don't think it's about greed but maybe about fulfilling some kind of need but without necessarily meaning the first wife in inadequate. For me having another husband (as much as I love mine) is possibly the last thing I could ever want or desire.

 

[Tasha]

Interesting debate. I wont say about my situation as this part of the forum is very open (I think) but I will say I believe it is easy to love two or more people.

Also my marriage vows didnt say til death do us part.

 

[Sarahkka]

Summer rain - such interesting posts from you, lady! I learn so much about Islam from you!

I have to admit that I am rather surprised by the very loaded language being used to describe polygamous marriage: "selfish", "lack of self-control", etc. As if there couldn't be any other possible way in the world to live but the poster's own way, and all other ways must be automatically treated as inferior. Sure, maybe polygamy isn't for you, but it works really well for many many people. It would be nice if it could at least be discussed with respectful terms?

Really enjoying the examples and case studies on why and how it works - so thanks to everyone who posted those. From a science standpoint, I can offer two thoughts:
1) There are very few species of any sort who practise true monogamy.
2) From an evolutionary standpoint, a social species like our own would have gained more from the genetic variance found in polygamy than we would have from monogamy, and we would have had a better survival rate by using the extended family/tribe as protection for our children, rather than trying to survive as a small family unit with just two parents.

 

[JASMAK]

Jasmak, Summer rain is one of the most level headed people on this forum. It's a stretch to say she takes things personally.

Also, I was married once before. My ex was abusive. So, I should have stayed with him until death do us part?

No, I never said that. lol. Of course not. Havent you read my posts before about abuse?

I like Summer too, I just disagree, very much. Thats ok you know, to disagree. You are on that side, with her, and I'm on this side, with my opinion. But the prostitute comment was a little outrageous, and a little offensive, which isnt like her.

 

[JASMAK]

I didn't interpret that if your husband isn't a polygamist he must be seeing prostitutes. Rather that "monogamy" doesn't secure fidelity. You may be the one taking things personally here.

I agree. This is just a debate. We're meant to question and explore our own personal views as well as explore and question the views of others.

Which is why I asked her if thats what she meant....

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I don't think this emot is needed. We're having a discussion. If you want to get heated, maybe leave the debate? You've given your views and people have disagreed and the other way around.

 

[Sarahkka]

Are you saying that if your husband isnt a polygamist he is sleeping with prostitues?! LMAO! That is the craziest thin I have heard. It may not be wrong to some (thats an opinion), but it can be wrong to others (also an opinion) and here, against the law, so the courts also agree its WRONG. It isnt even just about a religion to some, its about MORALS. I think you are taking his too personally hon.

Jasmak, this is how you "asked her what she meant". By laughing at her and telling her that her point was the craziest thing you have ever heard.
I found that pretty disrespectful.

I also did not get what you did from her point about monogamy and prostitution.

 

[Tasha]

The morals thing. Arent they just something that society gives us? I mean I doubt a four year old would think a marriage is between two people unless told otherwise would they?

So surely the moral side is debatable? Your (mean that in a every ones yours) 'morals' might be different to someone who doesnt believe in monogamy but does that make your morals the right ones?

And it also opens up the question that is it just that people chose monogamy because society tells us that is right?

Polygamous marriage really interests me, but is it something I would want to explain to my family? Nope, and thats because of their morals not mine.

Bit of a ramble there, sorry.

 

[JASMAK]

I don't think this emot is needed. We're having a discussion. If you want to get heated, maybe leave the debate? You've given your views and people have disagreed and the other way around.

I am not heated. You may be reading it that way, but I am not. I am actually chuckling as I write this!

 

[JASMAK]

Are you saying that if your husband isnt a polygamist he is sleeping with prostitues?! LMAO! That is the craziest thin I have heard. It may not be wrong to some (thats an opinion), but it can be wrong to others (also an opinion) and here, against the law, so the courts also agree its WRONG. It isnt even just about a religion to some, its about MORALS. I think you are taking his too personally hon.

Jasmak, this is how you "asked her what she meant". By laughing at her and telling her that her point was the craziest thing you have ever heard.
I found that pretty disrespectful.

I also did not get what you did from her point about monogamy and prostitution.

Well, I am sorry you feel that way. When I wrote THAT, yesterday, I WAS a bit offended as it sounded, to me, she was supporting her opinion of pologamy with monogomous men sleep with prostitutes...not affairs even, prostitutes! I dont think its that rude of an answer, tbh. I dont think there is a need to gang up on me for a difference of opinion.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I think you're imagining people ganging up on you. But let's move on, shall we?