Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

Hey girls. The bedtime thing has been going on on and off for quite some time. Here was our schedule yesterday, which is typcial:

6am wake

8:45am-9:30am nap 1

1:30pm-3:00pm nap 2

6:45 pm - attempt bedtime

7:30pm - finally asleep

She's also been waking up earlier and earlier. Today it was 5:45am. It used to be between 6:30am and 7am. I think her sleep needs might be changing. When she woke, she was happy and seemed well rested (and had slept through the night).

Is starting the one nap transition the answer here? Maybe a later bedtime?

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Minikiwi - I'm so glad that Mia's sleeping more or less ok. I think not seeing someone on this thread is usually a good sign

Socity - Honestly, there's never a good time if you have a baby. They're always going through something. I think I've said it before but both you and Hadley would benefit from some sleep training. But I think you should be consistent and have help. It won't work if you do it for a day and change method.

Polaris - so sorry your nights haven't improved. We need Sofia and Clara to start crawling already so they won't do it in their sleep.

Noelle - can you start her bedtime routine 15 mins later perhaps? Maybe aim to have her asleep by 8 pm in a few days but start slow?

Sofia sttn last night (7pm to 7:30 am) and I expected her to. My weird baby sttn one night and then has a motn party the next night :/ I think it's pointless to update for me at this point as this seems to be a waiting game for us. I however am back to sleeping terribly as my body is confused about when it can sleep coz of Sofia's up and down every other night schedule.

Oh Noelle, I talked to my doc and she thinks I shouldn't be on sleep meds. She said 1/2 Ativan twice a week is not something that's really helping me sleep so I probably should quit cold turkey (or replace with Melatonin)...I don't know. I think I'm still gonna wean myself off gradually until Sofia's sleep is more settled.

 

[Noelle610]

I talked to a friend of mine who knows a lot about sleep and she's telling me to reduce the last wake time!! I'm confused, blah.

Shadowy Lady really hope you get some sleep yourself! Trust your doc!

 

[bananaz]

Hey girls. The bedtime thing has been going on on and off for quite some time. Here was our schedule yesterday, which is typcial:

6am wake

8:45am-9:30am nap 1

1:30pm-3:00pm nap 2

6:45 pm - attempt bedtime

7:30pm - finally asleep

She's also been waking up earlier and earlier. Today it was 5:45am. It used to be between 6:30am and 7am. I think her sleep needs might be changing. When she woke, she was happy and seemed well rested (and had slept through the night).

Is starting the one nap transition the answer here? Maybe a later bedtime?

I would say a later bedtime. Elsie used to also go to bed at 6:30pm but that moved to 7:30pm with the time change and she hasn't needed to have it pushed earlier again. The fact that it's staying light out later now could be messing with Charlotte's circadian rhythms.

 

[Noelle610]

Hey girls. The bedtime thing has been going on on and off for quite some time. Here was our schedule yesterday, which is typcial:

6am wake

8:45am-9:30am nap 1

1:30pm-3:00pm nap 2

6:45 pm - attempt bedtime

7:30pm - finally asleep

She's also been waking up earlier and earlier. Today it was 5:45am. It used to be between 6:30am and 7am. I think her sleep needs might be changing. When she woke, she was happy and seemed well rested (and had slept through the night).

Is starting the one nap transition the answer here? Maybe a later bedtime?

I would say a later bedtime. Elsie used to also go to bed at 6:30pm but that moved to 7:30pm with the time change and she hasn't needed to have it pushed earlier again. The fact that it's staying light out later now could be messing with Charlotte's circadian rhythms.

That's exactly what I was thinking! We're on the same page.

Ideally I could just shift all of her naps foward a bit, but since she's on the daycare schedule that's hard.

 

[polaris]

Hi Noelle,
if she's waking early but seems well-rested and doesn't crash after a very short wake time then I would say maybe later bedtime rather than earlier bedtime. I know what your friend is talking about though, Thomas went through a phase of bedtime battles and early wakings and he actually did need an earlier bedtime. But he was waking early due to being overtired and he didn't seem well rested and wanted a very early nap. So a bit different from what you are describing. I would probably try putting her to bed at 7.30 if that's when she's actually falling asleep. Personally I wouldn't want to cut her naps any further at this age but I'm basing it on Thomas and he always had high sleep needs and needed extremely gradual nap transitions.

 

[bananaz]

MiniKiwi - I'm so glad to see you back and that Mia has been sleeping so well! I was hoping that was why you disappeared. It's great that you found a method that was gentle and effective, I know that the gentle part was really important to you.

Shadowy - Yay for STTN, but I'm sorry to hear your sleep is messed up again. Have you ever had your hormones checked? I know mine were way out of whack after my LO's birth and they didn't really restabilize on their own, and that can interfere with sleep. Now I take progesterone before bed and it's helped quite a bit.

 

[bananaz]

I have tried putting him down tired but awake but he wakes himself up by crying when i leave and i don't have the heart to let him CIO. i will try again tonight though as ive never laid him on his front in the cot before - is it safe? He does work himself up if i don't go in quickly but then thats what he's used to so maybe i should wait it out a little longer. thank you for the advice

*********

WRT to night feeds, is it normal for him to have them at this age? last night he woke at 10.30, 12.30 and 4 and drank 5oz each time!

At 7 months old it should be fine to put him on his belly. The general guideline is that once they can roll there themselves it's okay. You might try putting him down tired but awake and then staying in with him until he drops into a deep sleep, maybe just resting a hand on his back or patting him if he protests. It will probably take 15-20 minutes but at least that way he'll fall asleep in his crib and he won't be disturbed when you sneak out.

Many babies still have night feeds at that age but you can encourage him to drop them by gradually reducing the amount you offer, or by giving him water instead. Then hopefully he'll get used to taking in those calories during the day instead and stop expecting them at night.

 

[Noelle610]

Shadowy - Yay for STTN, but I'm sorry to hear your sleep is messed up again. Have you ever had your hormones checked? I know mine were way out of whack after my LO's birth and they didn't really restabilize on their own, and that can interfere with sleep. Now I take progesterone before bed and it's helped quite a bit.

Yes, this! The difficulty sleep can be hormonal. It's often treated with birth control.

In addition, you may want to have your thyroid checked. Many women struggle with their thyroid postpartum and it goes undiagnosed. Here's some info:

https://www.thyroid.org/postpartum-thyroiditis/

 

[VikkiD]

Lo slept well last night he's teething at the min he was up at 1:40 didn't want a feed but wanted some calpol. Then slept till 6:15 I did hear a bit off moaning from him but not enough to get me out of bed lol. Not sure how he's going to sleep tonight as his cheeks are burning with his teeth an he's hardly drank any milk today but as ate he's only took 3oz from his bedtime bottle.

 

[polaris]

We ended up with three naps today because her afternoon nap was interrupted after 20 minutes by a poo! I had to take her out for an emergency walk in the pram in the pouring rain because there was no way she would have made it till bedtime. She went to sleep perfectly at 6.30 but I can hear her starting to wake up now, right on cue at 45 minutes later! Don't know how to get rid of these 45 minute wake-ups.

 

[gaiagirl]

Polaris if you figure that out let me know! Lol

 

[seaweed eater]

I'm new to the thread and don't know what you've tried already, Polaris, so sorry if this is not helpful -- but have you tried wake to sleep? Didn't work at all for us, but a lot of people seem to like it for extending naps. And nothing could be gentler!

 

[Smile181c]

I managed to get Max to settle in his cot tonight without me holding him! I 'camped out' next to his cot with my hand on his tummy until he gave in. There was lots of crying but we both survived and he is now sound asleep

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Bananaz and Noelle - thanks guys. I'm supposed to check back with my doctor in 2 weeks time so I will ask about the hormonal issue. I just hate to be on stupid Ativan even if it's 1/2 pill or so per week. My doctor says the Ativan is not what's putting me to sleep it's just all in my head. But I want to be checked for hormonal imbalance now too.

 

[Boo44]

Noelle I would definitely try a later bed time. Jack has a last nap to bed wake time of 4.5 hrs sometimes more. I did try less but it didn't affect his early waking in fact sometimes made it worse! But later bed times work for us. Also the clock change has touch wood helped with his early mornings too

We've had 3 bad nights as his cough is awful on a night He usually sleeps through the coughing which starts up at 4ish for an hour. But last night he started coughing at 2am and was back-to-back coughing and difficult breathing inbetween I actually woke him up to get him out of bed and try to stop the coughing it was scary! Have taken him to dr today and his chest/throat/ears are all clear. So that's good and I guess it's just a virus we'll have to wait out!

 

[polaris]

I'm new to the thread and don't know what you've tried already, Polaris, so sorry if this is not helpful -- but have you tried wake to sleep? Didn't work at all for us, but a lot of people seem to like it for extending naps. And nothing could be gentler!

Hmmm, I actually hadn't thought of that at all. Might give it a try, it can't really hurt I don't think. If I didn't have my three year old to look after I would also definitely try going in just before 45 mins and putting my hand on her back to just get her through the sleep cycle - but it's really hard to manage a lot of stuff when I have the two of them to look after. OH is working five evenings next week, I am actually dreading it, I really hope Clara is a bit more settled next week because this week would have just been a total nightmare on my own. My three year old is also in nap transition hell at the moment (getting ready to drop nap but still can't manage without it) so he's not falling asleep until 9 or 10 p.m. most nights and if I'm up and down all evening with Clara it is just a nightmare!

 

[NotNic]

Noelle - we're another fan of the later bedtime. TBH we've always done it because it allowed OH to see him as he's normally home around 6.45pm and then he can be involved in his routine. Also it means that I'll get close to two hours a day with him when I go back to work next month. Our routine is something like this:

Wake - 6am (though we've had a few sneaky 6.30ams this week)
Nap 1 - 10.30 for 90/120 mins (fingers crossed!)
Nap 2 - 3pm for 45-60 mins (when we are having a 2 nap day)
Bath - 7pm
Milk - 7.30pm followed by gentle play if he's a bit hyper. (I take all the toys away apart from a book or a teddy and let him crawl around for 10 mins)
Bed - 7.45/8pm to be asleep for 8/8.15pm

So apart from the gap between lunch we go 4.5hrs. As you know though, two naps days are quite rare, so I am planning on persevering with a shorter nap in the morning followed by a longer nap after lunch. This has worked a few times, but I've realised that for this to be more successful we need to try to delay nap until closer to 11am, so to have him awake for lunch, and for him then to be tired enough to successfully sleep through two sleep cycles in the afternoon (2-4pm roughly). This way we are still sticking to roughly the same waking up times - it's just the going down times which change.

Also looking at your routine, would it be worth trying to delay the morning nap?

 

[NotNic]

Boo is Jack snotty at the moment? Finlay has some disgusting snail trails at the moment and it's given him a cough at night. I think it's all the gunk trickling down his throat. We have him on a slightly plumper pillow when he's like this. We put it underneath the bottom sheet so it stays in place.

 

[Noelle610]

I actually think it would REALLY help to delay the morning nap. But she's a daycare baby and I hate making requests of them since they are amazing. Maybe I should ask though, can't hurt.