Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[NotNic]

I definitely think it would be worth a try. Then at least she might actually have a better quality of nap when it is time to sleep, and she will feel more ready to go to bed when it is time iykwim. I wouldn't worry about asking. Potentially she may start wanting to go to one nap soon as she might not be tired enough to need a second one, and they would have to adapt to that. Nudging that first nap back could protect the second nap.

 

[Boo44]

Boo is Jack snotty at the moment? Finlay has some disgusting snail trails at the moment and it's given him a cough at night. I think it's all the gunk trickling down his throat. We have him on a slightly plumper pillow when he's like this. We put it underneath the bottom sheet so it stays in place.

Yes he has green snot as of last night/today so that's obv what has led to his cough. He's a wheezy baby when he coughs though. He can't just have a 'normal' cough and then get better, it always leads to a few days of a wheezy chest We've put rolled up blankets under the head of his mattress to raise it a bit. He's a bit of a log at night and sleeps in one position on his back all night! So raising his mattress always results in a baby lying on a wonk with his head against the side of the cot lol. I've never experienced a mobile night sleeper!

By the way - how does pushing the am nap later help the pm nap? I would've thought having a later morning nap would make them less tired in the pm?!

 

[NotNic]

My theory is (bear with me), is that by not burning off enough energy before that first nap, they actually top up the amount of sleep they have had from the night time sleep. There isn't an obvious gap between the two sleeps so they merge in and then they are undertired when it's time to nap later. That's when they begin to fight having a second nap because they haven't burnt off enough energy and get very angry that they are going down too soon. This very quickly becomes overtired as the afternoon shift becomes too long for them to manage until bedtime. This is what was happening with Finlay. He was doing 6am wake up and 9.30am nap. We then would battle to convince him to sleep in the afternoon. Sometimes he would pass out exhausted at 5pm, which actually didn't make a difference to his bedtime, but it made for a dodgy 3-5pm period where we would have a lot of sleep cues, but a hyper then later grizzly baby. Also I've noticed that by eeking out an extra 30 mins before his first nap he is waking 30 mins later the next day. Could be a coincidence but I'm going with it!

 

[Noelle610]

My theory is (bear with me), is that by not burning off enough energy before that first nap, they actually top up the amount of sleep they have had from the night time sleep. There isn't an obvious gap between the two sleeps so they merge in and then they are undertired when it's time to nap later. That's when they begin to fight having a second nap because they haven't burnt off enough energy and get very angry that they are going down too soon. This very quickly becomes overtired as the afternoon shift becomes too long for them to manage until bedtime. This is what was happening with Finlay. He was doing 6am wake up and 9.30am nap. We then would battle to convince him to sleep in the afternoon. Sometimes he would pass out exhausted at 5pm, which actually didn't make a difference to his bedtime, but it made for a dodgy 3-5pm period where we would have a lot of sleep cues, but a hyper then later grizzly baby. Also I've noticed that by eeking out an extra 30 mins before his first nap he is waking 30 mins later the next day. Could be a coincidence but I'm going with it!

Makes so much sense!

 

[NotNic]

I'm glad. In my head it made sense, but trying to figure out how to explain it in writing was getting me in a muddle!

 

[Boo44]

Wow good thinking! And yes people do say that making the first nap later is one possible way to help with early wakings! Didn't make difference for Jack unfortunately lol

 

[socitycourty]

MiniKiwi....I'd love to hear how you did gentle sleep training. Just don't think I can follow thru with CIO and not sure what else I can do. She uses a pacifier at night sometimes and for naps, sometimes i have to rock, other times just hold her.....don't really have a routine as such.she also takes at least 1-2 bottles at night and I'm confused if she really needs or not

thank you

 

[seaweed eater]

This nap stuff is really challenging my inner control freak! I was happy to feel like I knew what was going on before. Now I never know what kind of wake time I'm going to get. Oh well!

 

[MiniKiwi]

Tbh, I hadn't tried anything before. I walked/rocked/bounced her to sleep from an early age, for a few months between 4-7 months she needed hours of rocking a day Between 8 and 10 months, she went to bed at 6pm and would wake every 30-90 minutes until 10 or 11pm (Noelle reckoned this was cause she was going to bed too early so we switched to 7pm bedtime which definitely helped some) and she'd wake up between 11 and 2 am and stay awake for 1-3 hours - she did that for about 2 months lol!!!! When she woke hourly or less one night, I decided enough was enough.

I bathed her, let her do her usual crawl around and play for an hour, gave her a bottle and put her in her cot. I just put one hand on her tummy, one on her head and stroked her hair and shhhed loudly when she cried and quietly when she was quiet. She was asleep in 15 minutes and cried a not too upset cry, on and off for 10 ish mins. The second night she cried for 3 minutes and no crying the third night. I've just been doing the same thing since, it doesn't always work straight away (if she's squealing and chatting it won't work) so I just walk away for a bit and on occasion she will self settle and if not, I go back in when she cries and shh and stroke her head and she nods off. She no longer wakes in the early night time and it's been 1-2 wakings since then and only a few, short motn parties

Just quoted my post a few pages back for you, Socity. It was really this simple but I don't want to get your hopes up, I think Mia was ready and that I was doing a few things 'wrong' for her which prevented her from sleeping well (too early bedtime & walking her to sleep).

I'd often feed her in the night cause I didn't know what else to do with her... I didn't know why she'd wake so often for no reason so yeah, I wanted to make sure she wasn't hungry. She's waking at around 4/5am these days and I'm sure she's hungry then as she licks her lips when she sees the milk (it's so cute ) Maybe if you try what I did, you might have some success and won't have to even think about feeding in the night anymore? Idk, I don't want to be pushy or anything but this worked for us, relatively quickly and LO is much happier (and so am I!) She doesn't sleep perfectly now but it's a huge improvement. I do think moving her bedtime later really helped too, she goes to bed at 7pm now. She also goes to bed with a soother, but we only use it for nap and bedtimes and we've never had a problem with her waking because she'd lost it.

Let us know how you're doing. Hope you two manage to get some rest soon

 

[Noelle610]

MiniKiwi, you rock! It's great to hear that gentle methods work if you're consistent.

So yesterday was weird. Charlotte has a little tantrum at daycare (their words, not mine!) and refused her first nap. Up at 6am and took a monster nap mid day - 12:30pm-2:45pm. So one nap. I put her to bed at 7pm.... No shenanigans, right to sleep, STTN without a peep until 6am.

Wonder if it was a fluke or if she's ready to transition

 

[polaris]

Wow Noelle, you are really lucky if the nap transition goes that smoothly! It's actually great when they are only on one nap because it's much easier to plan activities. But the transition was a bit of a nightmare for DS and very dragged out!

Well we ended up having a very good night last night - I actually feel well-rested for once! Clara woke up 45 mins after going to sleep as usual but she wasn't settling, she was trying to get to sleep but she just couldn't. I ended up giving her Nurofen because I thought it might be her teeth. Anyway after getting the Nurofen and a little feed, she went back to sleep at about 8 p.m., woke at 2 a.m. for a feed, and then straight back to sleep until 6 a.m.!! I feel like a new woman!

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Sofia sttn last night too. I'm getting my hopes up that the MOTN crawling is over. I however have been up since 4am. I had slept at 9:30 though so it's not so bad. But I'm still going to see my doctor again next week.

 

[Noelle610]

Shadowy Lady, even with medication I've been up since 4:30am. It sucks! I went to bed at 9pm so it's not that bad, but for some reason I seem to enter a light sleep cycle and can't settle at that time... Just like a baby

 

[Sunnie1984]

Noelle - I think that is the clearest signal for nap transition I have ever heard of!

Sorry no time to properly update, but I have been reading.

Will reply as soon as I get 10 mins to actually sit down! X

 

[bananaz]

So yesterday was weird. Charlotte has a little tantrum at daycare (their words, not mine!) and refused her first nap. Up at 6am and took a monster nap mid day - 12:30pm-2:45pm. So one nap. I put her to bed at 7pm.... No shenanigans, right to sleep, STTN without a peep until 6am.

Wonder if it was a fluke or if she's ready to transition

Hmm it'll be interesting to see if it happens again! It would be great if the transition is that simple for you. Elsie has had a few days like that but usually even if her first nap gets pushed back it isn't long enough for her not to take a second nap so we get into that weird naptime no man's land.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with her schedule now too because she's waking early still. Right now it looks something like this...

5:30am - Up for the day
10am-11:15am - Nap #1
3:30pm-4:30pm - Nap #2
7:30pm - Bedtime

About half the time she fights the second nap and on those days it usually ends up only being 20-40 minutes long.

Anyway, I'm wondering if I should just give up on a post-6am wakeup time for her? I'm more than happy with her getting a solid 10-hour chunk of sleep at night but she's not an amazing napper either so she typically only gets around 11-12 hours total a day, and that seems on the low side...

 

[Noelle610]

So yesterday was weird. Charlotte has a little tantrum at daycare (their words, not mine!) and refused her first nap. Up at 6am and took a monster nap mid day - 12:30pm-2:45pm. So one nap. I put her to bed at 7pm.... No shenanigans, right to sleep, STTN without a peep until 6am.

Wonder if it was a fluke or if she's ready to transition

Hmm it'll be interesting to see if it happens again! It would be great if the transition is that simple for you. Elsie has had a few days like that but usually even if her first nap gets pushed back it isn't long enough for her not to take a second nap so we get into that weird naptime no man's land.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with her schedule now too because she's waking early still. Right now it looks something like this...

5:30am - Up for the day
10am-11:15am - Nap #1
3:30pm-4:30pm - Nap #2
7:30pm - Bedtime

About half the time she fights the second nap and on those days it usually ends up only being 20-40 minutes long.

Anyway, I'm wondering if I should just give up on a post-6am wakeup time for her? I'm more than happy with her getting a solid 10-hour chunk of sleep at night but she's not an amazing napper either so she typically only gets around 11-12 hours total a day, and that seems on the low side...

No way it will be that easy! I think she may be ready, but "adaptable" is not really the top adjective used to describe my lovely daughter

Here's a suggestion from a sleep coach on transitioning to one nap. Since you're home with Elsie during the day I think this could work really well:

And this is the basic advice for moving to one nap:

Just starting 1 nap (still having some 2 nap days): The first WT is stretched from 3-3.25 WT by 15-20min every 3-7 days until you get to a 4hr WT. If first nap ends before 12pm, do a 30-45 min catnap/quiet time ~3pm or 3.5hrs WT, whichever comes first.

Just recently on 1 nap: 4-4.25/6 (nap starting between 10am and 11am, depending on WU) Every 3-5 days, extend first WT by 15 min until he/she can cope with a 5hr WT

A couple weeks on 1 nap: 5/5 (eg. 6am WU, 11am nap, 7pm BT)

A few weeks more on 1 nap: 5.5/4.5-5(?) (eg. 6am WU, 11:30am nap, 7pm BT) 1 nap is well-established; No need to push the first WT unless there are signs that more WT is needed (lengthy monkey business before nap and/or shorter naps)

A couple months on 1 nap:: 6/4.5-5(?) (eg. 6am WU, 12pm nap, 7:30pm BT)

A few more months on 1 nap: 6.5/4.5-5(?)

18+ months: 5.5-6/4.5-5(?) ~BTC nap starting at ~12:30-1:00pm

24 months: 6+/5(?) ~BTC nap starting at ~1-1:30pm

 

[bananaz]

No way it will be that easy! I think she may be ready, but "adaptable" is not really the top adjective used to describe my lovely daughter

Here's a suggestion from a sleep coach on transitioning to one nap. Since you're home with Elsie during the day I think this could work really well:

And this is the basic advice for moving to one nap:

Just starting 1 nap (still having some 2 nap days): The first WT is stretched from 3-3.25 WT by 15-20min every 3-7 days until you get to a 4hr WT. If first nap ends before 12pm, do a 30-45 min catnap/quiet time ~3pm or 3.5hrs WT, whichever comes first.

Just recently on 1 nap: 4-4.25/6 (nap starting between 10am and 11am, depending on WU) Every 3-5 days, extend first WT by 15 min until he/she can cope with a 5hr WT

A couple weeks on 1 nap: 5/5 (eg. 6am WU, 11am nap, 7pm BT)

A few weeks more on 1 nap: 5.5/4.5-5(?) (eg. 6am WU, 11:30am nap, 7pm BT) 1 nap is well-established; No need to push the first WT unless there are signs that more WT is needed (lengthy monkey business before nap and/or shorter naps)

A couple months on 1 nap:: 6/4.5-5(?) (eg. 6am WU, 12pm nap, 7:30pm BT)

A few more months on 1 nap: 6.5/4.5-5(?)

18+ months: 5.5-6/4.5-5(?) ~BTC nap starting at ~12:30-1:00pm

24 months: 6+/5(?) ~BTC nap starting at ~1-1:30pm

Thanks, that's really helpful info. I guess I'm going to have to decide if I'm brave enough to handle her for 5-6 hours at a time! She has been so fussy and clingy the past couple of weeks that it's all I can do not to put her down in her crib and run away every 2 hours, lol

 

[Noelle610]

Another option would be to push her naps back so that you can have a longer wake time between nap 1 and 2, allowing for a longer second nap. Would she go down at 9am?

 

[mellyboo]

Alright now that we had self soothing for naps down pact and working out amazing for the pass couple weeks now.

I'm ready to start something at night waking up every 2 hours and some time's 30 minutes is seriously mind baffling right now and im so tired!!

What do I do how do i start?

My dr told me to basically get ear plugs and shut the door, I dont want to be that harsh..

I do believe in CIO just not sure how to go about it at night im sorta lost.

 

[Noelle610]

Alright now that we had self soothing for naps down pact and working out amazing for the pass couple weeks now.

I'm ready to start something at night waking up every 2 hours and some time's 30 minutes is seriously mind baffling right now and im so tired!!

What do I do how do i start?

My dr told me to basically get ear plugs and shut the door, I dont want to be that harsh..

I do believe in CIO just not sure how to go about it at night im sorta lost.

Start with a plan that you and your OH both agree with and stick with it. That's the best course of action no matter which method you choose

In terms of which method to use, you've done CC right? Do the checks stimulate or comfort your LO?