Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[mrsbeano]

Have you tried him in his own bed for the night? He sounds like hes doing great aside from this though - lovely naps.

It is a phase that Quinn went through but I just ignored him. He was in his own room and it was much easier to ignore him in there though. He wasn't upset but just wakeful - I think it was crawling related.

 

[aliss]

Thanks Noelle & MrsBeano, I know they are pretty aweseome naps, I've been really lucky with that.

I try him in his own bed at night BUT actually this is my fault... I get so lazy that when I get up with him during the night, I fall asleep with him in our bed without even thinking Last night, I went to bed at 9:30pm with him in the crib and woke up with him in the bed at 3am, I don't even remember how it happened LOL

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Aliss - we went through the exact same thing with Sofia around 5.5 months. I remember coming here for advice. I think in the end we just waited it out and it took about 8 nights for her to stop. It was rough but it did end.

Bananaz - so glad the earlier bedtime is helping Elsie sleep in a bit more.

Noelle - eeeek sounds like teething! Hope it/they poke through soon. Love the new avi btw

Sofia's first tooth is almost out and her cold is still there. She woke up today at 5 am again....though she had her eyes closed, sitting up in her crib and moaning exactly like 2 nights ago. Went in, gave her Tylenol, fed her and she slept till 8 am. Cannot wait for this damn tooth to be out!!!

I'm exhausted today, fighting a bad cold myself and colds always mean earache for me

 

[Radkat]

We had a pretty good night. I made a plan from all of your suggestions - walked out before she was asleep, she cried of course, I let her cry for a few minutes, laid her back down several times, settled her by shush and pat, walked out again while she was still awake, she cried for 2 minutes and was asleep. I couldn't believe it. She slept from 7:30 to 2:15. Nursed, some more laying her back down, but only for maybe 5 minutes. Up around 4 but quickly settled. Up at 5 wouldn't settle, nursed. And she was totally awake. Couldn't get her to settle by laying her back down and patting after 40 minutes, so I brought her into bed with us and she slept until 7:40.

Will be doing the nap plan today of shorter times bt naps. He just woke up from a 30 minute nap. Went down pretty well. Here's hoping...

 

[Boo44]

Hi girls! Have I missed anything?!

We're just back from Majorca today and had a fantastic time we all loved it! Didn't want to come home - only 10 days until I go back to work now!!

Anyway despite learning to crawl the day before we went, Jack actually sttn every night we were there! We of course had some early wakings as is his usual. But I'll take that! One day he simply refused his morning nap and ended up having his very first ever one nap day! That night he slept 12 full hours. I was so excited at the idea of switching him to one nap there and then lol. But he had his 2 naps every other day and slept 11 hr nights. So I'll wait a bit longer

 

[mellyboo]

Hi girls! Have I missed anything?!

We're just back from Majorca today and had a fantastic time we all loved it! Didn't want to come home - only 10 days until I go back to work now!!

Anyway despite learning to crawl the day before we went, Jack actually sttn every night we were there! We of course had some early wakings as is his usual. But I'll take that! One day he simply refused his morning nap and ended up having his very first ever one nap day! That night he slept 12 full hours. I was so excited at the idea of switching him to one nap there and then lol. But he had his 2 naps every other day and slept 11 hr nights. So I'll wait a bit longer

Thats awesome news BOO seem's like you had a very good vacation, happy for you!

 

[seaweed eater]

Aliss, I agree with the others, it sounds like your schedule is just fine, though possibly too much napping (I know it would be way too much for mine but of course every baby is different). I hope it passes soon

Stephie, you may find he sleeps longer too if you can move to putting him down awake or almost. He will self-settle someday! When he's 13, he won't be asking to nurse or be rocked to sleep.

Noelle, Bananaz, and Shadowy, hope you all have better nights tonight 11 1/2 months is an iffy time, huh?

Boo, sounds like an awesome vacation! I'm glad Jack let you rest and enjoy it

Radkat, that is such amazing news!!! I hope things continue to get better for you!

Well the last two nights have been back to the old nonsense here I sure didn't miss waking up so tired in the morning. I think we had 6 wakings last night but I don't really remember. At least he has slept until 6:30 both days. Small victories.

DH even said, "We should go back to sleep training." I really want at least a full week of no crying to let everyone's nerves recover a little, though.

Assuming the past two nights haven't been a fluke and we need to try something else, I think the next thing will be gradual withdrawal. I'm not sure, though...it just doesn't seem like a good fit for my LO. I don't think it will help him very much. But I don't know what else we have left to try before CC. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I don't know whether gentle removal is helping us at all. Clearly it is not doing much for his ability to sleep through. Also, I don't think it's taking any fewer removals and re-latches since we started. It still feels like about one million of them each time (probably closer to 30). I always mean to keep track but then lose count. I think it's just interrupting his usual process of comfort sucking until exactly the same point when I used to put him down before.

 

[seaweed eater]

Oh, and has anyone used a paid sleep consultant? What are your thoughts on them?

 

[Twister]

Ugh, she woke St 3:30, so I fed her and out her in her cot asleep but she woke again so I tried to do CIO. She was crying for around half an hour, i checked on her about 3 timesjust to make sure age hadn't flipped over but it got to the point where she kept stopping then starting again and I couldn't take it anymore i just felt so bad for her so here I am feeding her again. Not sure if I'm doing it right this whole CIO thing

 

[stephie_corin]

I'm broken, shattered. I put the washing on this morning and couldn't stop crying. He was up every 45 minutes again but at 230 am he wouldn't go to sleep. I finally gave him paracetamol at 330 in case it was his teeth and he didn't go to sleep until 450... Only to wake at 520 again. He then slept until 6 in my arms.

I know everyone is in the same boat but I feel like I've reached breaking point. I'm reading NCSS which is meant to be a longer term solution but I need something to change soon as I can't go on.

I respect his wake times. He goes to bed at 6pm. The only thing I can think to change is his naps, which are 3 x 30 mins. Should I be trying to extend them? I always thought I should respect his natural napping pattern but I can potentially rock him and get him to nap longer.

Sorry to everyone who had a bad night and I hope everyone else who is having good nights continues with the good sleep

ETA- I wonder if this is due to him looking like he is learning to crawl. These last two nights correspond to him suddenly getting up on all fours and rocking and becoming a lot more mobile. Also, the paracetamol doesn't seemed to have done anything, so maybe it isn't teething.

 

[seaweed eater]

Hugs Stephie he really is waking up every cycle, huh?

I'm sorry I can't remember if there's been any discussion of C's daytime routine before. 3 naps would be too many for my LO and 6 PM would be too early. Does he go down easily for the naps? Are they around the same time every day or do you go completely by his cues?

He may be ready for 2 longer naps, especially if it's possible for you to extend his naps (I wish mine would let me do that). But I don't think needing 2 naps rather than 3 is likely to cause the kind of sleep disruption you are seeing.

I would start working on his nursing association and putting him down awake. Are you nursing every time he wakes up?

Twister I'm sorry, it is stressful to hear your baby cry for so long. I think CIO will be more effective for you if you start at bedtime rather than NWs, and if you are willing to stick it out for 2+ hours. I think it could be confusing to her if you let her cry for some time and then go in and nurse her, even though naturally that's the response you would have.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks SE. I spoke too soon. I tried to extend his first nap but no luck! I did rock him to sleep after nursing him though, so that was a good start.

Normally (on a 5-6 wake up night between 10pm and 6am) he only feeds twice and the rest of the time he just needs to be rocked to sleep. The last two nights he has wanted to nurse every wakeup pretty much, even though I know he is not hungry. That's why I thought it could be teething.

I will try putting him down awake, although I think that one will be a work in progress! Thanks so much for your kind words and support. X

ETA - normally I nurse him down for every nap and at bed time but not for every night waking. He goes down pretty easily but only with my help ie nursing or rocking. We try and go by max awake times but I watch for sleepy cues. We usually do nap 1 2 hours after waking, nap 2 2.25 hours after waking, nap 3 2.5 hours after waking and bedtime 2.75-3 hours after waking. Each nap lasts 30-45 mins.

I aim for 6pm bedtime because he is an early riser and thought he needed 12 hours at night, plus any later and his last awake time is very long. He usually has his last cat nap around 2-230pm.

 

[polaris]

Oh no, sorry to hear about the bad nights.

Seaweed, that is so disappointing that the last two nights have been so terrible. Gradual withdrawal is actually what I would really like to do with Clara, I think it might be quite a good fit for her as she is quite comforted just by my presence sometimes. I have been sleeping in her room for much of the night for the last couple of nights because she's still quite unwell and I do think she sleeps better when I'm there. Unfortunately I'm just not able to do gradual withdrawal consistently because I also have a toddler and I just can't leave him on his own for hours while I sit with Clara while she goes to sleep. Re professional sleep consultants - I really strongly considered it when Clara was younger because nothing seemed to work for her and I just felt really at a loss what to try next. I didn't do it in the end though - I think a huge benefit would be not having to second guess yourself and just do whatever somebody else told you to do. Which would definitely help to be more consistent I think. But that would be dependent on trusting the person's judgement and methods so I would definitely try and speak to the person first and sound them out on a few things to see if it would be a good fit.

Stephie I remember so clearly being at that point with Clara, her sleep was very similar to what you describe. It really is soul destroying. I just couldn't take anymore and did CC but honestly it didn't work very well with Clara and involved an awful lot of crying. Obviously it works quickly and easily for some babies but not for us! I would definitely try to extend his naps if at all possible. Clara used to take three 20 minute catnaps whereas after doing CC she immediately started taking two 2 hour naps so she obviously did need more daytime sleep. She never seemed tired when she woke from a nap but I do think they are generally better rested when they are taking longer naps. I do think the extra sleep disturbances could definitely be related to learning to crawl. So maybe just doing whatever it takes to get through this couple of weeks and things might just improve a bit naturally?

Twister I think the big problem with letting them cry sometimes and feeding them sometimes is that it sets up what is called an intermittent reinforcement schedule. Basically what this means is that sometimes the baby cries and gets reinforcement for that (nursing/being picked up/etc.) whereas sometimes they cry and don't get reinforcement (CIO). The difficulty is that because they are getting reinforcement some of the time the crying doesn't stop and actually they can tend to cry for longer and be more persistent. Also when crying is sometimes reinforced and sometimes not, it becomes much harder to break the pattern because if you do then decide to do CIO or CC, the baby is likely to cry for longer because they know that sometimes they do end up being picked up and nursed in that situation so they will tend to be more persistent. It's easier said than done though, I am horrendously inconsistent with Clara despite knowing all this!

Boo - so glad you had a lovely holiday.

Aliss - I agree that the schedule sounds perfect. Don't know what to suggest. Extended night wakings are just the worst though in my opinion, you have my sympathies!

Radkat - yay! That sounds like your plan is really working well - so pleased for you!

I know I've forgotten loads but I don't have time to check back through the thread now - so sorry to everyone I've forgotten.

 

[Twister]

Thanks Polaris and SE. It so hard, I regret it now tbh as I feel she wouldn't have cried for that long if she didn't really need me iykwim. I was just soooooo tired and my patience is horrendous during night wakings

 

[angelwings7]

Hi Ladies, I'm having so many problems with my 19 weeks old baby he only naps 45min at a time during the day and at night he wakes up for his feed at 2;30 and I usually spend 2 hours trying to get him back to sleep as he just seems so wide awake for some reason. He has never slept through the night but he just always seems to wake up constantly from 2:30 to 6am when finally we get up for the day, I'm just so tired and depressed from it and don't know what I'm doing wrong. He does have silent reflux and is on medication for it so I have his cot at an angel. Just wondering if anyone has some good advice as this is my first baby and it's all new to me.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Polaris. I think we will wait it our before trying any thing else for a while. We are finally in a bit of a routine and I was seeing improvements so I'm hoping it is just the crawling, and that he figures it out pretty soon! For all my bragging about extending naps, I've had no luck today! Ha!

Wishing everyone lots of sleep tonight xxx

 

[stephie_corin]

Hi Ladies, I'm having so many problems with my 19 weeks old baby he only naps 45min at a time during the day and at night he wakes up for his feed at 2;30 and I usually spend 2 hours trying to get him back to sleep as he just seems so wide awake for some reason. He has never slept through the night but he just always seems to wake up constantly from 2:30 to 6am when finally we get up for the day, I'm just so tired and depressed from it and don't know what I'm doing wrong. He does have silent reflux and is on medication for it so I have his cot at an angel. Just wondering if anyone has some good advice as this is my first baby and it's all new to me.

Hi and welcome it sounds like the dreaded four month sleep regression! Which in our case has lasted three months! Everyone on this thread is super helpful so I'm sure you will get lots of support. It might be useful to post your day time routine- when naps usually are and bedtime, plus how you get him to sleep xxx

 

[Noelle610]

Hi Ladies, I'm having so many problems with my 19 weeks old baby he only naps 45min at a time during the day and at night he wakes up for his feed at 2;30 and I usually spend 2 hours trying to get him back to sleep as he just seems so wide awake for some reason. He has never slept through the night but he just always seems to wake up constantly from 2:30 to 6am when finally we get up for the day, I'm just so tired and depressed from it and don't know what I'm doing wrong. He does have silent reflux and is on medication for it so I have his cot at an angel. Just wondering if anyone has some good advice as this is my first baby and it's all new to me.

Hey Hun! Short naps are normal at this age. What's a typical day/night like? When does he nap/go to bed?

 

[Boo44]

Well, have found one downside to coming home from holiday - jack seems to have forgotten how to self settle for naps! He self settled every night in his cot on holiday. And he did so last night at home too, no probs. But on holiday his naps were all (without exception) buggy naps. And today he's been fine when I put him down but then started crying his heart out when I leave the room - totally new! So I've basically just had to let him CIO for his nap! Although I did go in to reassure him twice. And it only took 12 mins. So hopefully it will pass once he remembers how to do it....

Also out of interest / one day on Hols he simple refused his am nap no matter how hard we tried. So that day he ended up having a 2 hour nap after lunch (1.30 til 3.30) and was totally fine. Then slept 12 hr solid that night (usually does 10.5 or 11 hrs so not a lot of difference but a slightly later morning!)
My SIL and MIL aaaand my mum are all mentioning that 'soon' he should be on one nap. And I'm aware I'm back to work next week so him having one nap would work better for his child minders (mum/MIL/different SIL). But I remember Noelle saying that a baby of less than 1 rarely ever drops to one nap? So I'm in two minds about it all...

 

[mrsbeano]

Hi Boo, glad you had a good holiday. I don't think 12 minutes sounds that bad but then again I'm a bit mean and always give Quinn 15 minutes to let off some steam if he's fighting it.

Re your one nap conundrum, we're in a bit of a transition. When Quinn's at nursery and so excited by all the playing to be done, he only has one nap. Some days he might fall asleep on the journey home but not very often nowadays. When he's at home though, he has 2 naps and I have no idea how he does it at nursery.

He doesn't seem overtired on nursery days but he is ready for bed at 7. We think he catches up on the weekend lol.