Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[mellyboo]

Melly, so exciting! Every day when I check this thread I keep hoping your good streak will continue

Polaris, glad you got some rest

NotNic, I'm glad you got to sleep in, but I know what you mean about the funny feeling that the morning is all gone when you're used to waking up really early

Radkat, sorry you had such a rough night, that sounds really hard I hope something you try ends up helping. I think Noelle's suggestion to try giving her her own space somehow is a good one. Putting Munchkin in his own room at 4.5 months helped his sleep a LOT. I know you don't have that luxury but I agree that it would be worth trying to have her sleep apart from you in some way, just to see if it happens to help.

AFM, 5 wakings last night first time since before sleep training that he's had more than 2. It's not really as bad as it sounds, though, because he did have a 5.5 hour stretch, and he slept 7:30-6:30 all in all.

I'm kind of trying the NCSS gentle removal method...you all probably think I should just calm down, and I see your point but it just feels like, why not...anything that doesn't involve crying sounds really easy right now. And I'm not happy about having to feed so often during the night. I don't want him to become reliant on nighttime feedings so that later we have a food timing problem in addition to a sleep association problem. That's the main reason I wanted to sleep train in the first place. So I'd rather feel like I'm at least working on it. I haven't heard great things about that method so I don't really think it will work, but whatever -- why not try.

Thank you same here!

 

[polaris]

Just a thought Polaris, but could you try skipping the feed bit out of the final part of the routine. So maybe feed her downstairs and then take her to where you usually would nurse her, but instead of nursing go straight to the lullabye and cuddle bit. Perhaps removing the feed location association, might help lessen her need to nurse directly before bed.

I definitely think we need a cat sleep training thread. I regularly co-sleep with my cats and I'd like to wean them of it! Seriously though, they definitely do seem to work together. When Finlay is awake they go into his room and he's so excited he squeaks louder. 9

That would be really ideal if I could do it! I have tried to do this a couple of times but without success so far. I think part of the problem is that she doesn't really feed well downstairs, she gets too distracted by Thomas or by whatever else is going on and she will only have a short feed and then she just wants to finish her feed as soon as we go upstairs. So I never feel confident that she has had a proper feed downstairs so I always worry that she is still actually hungry. However I have done this for quite long stretches but it's never really stuck, the feed has always crept back into the last bit of the routine because she just settles so much better and easier.

 

[seaweed eater]

It does sound like gentle removal is trying to get to where you already are. I know what you mean about distractibility with feeding. What if you gave her a bath after nursing?

 

[stephie_corin]

For those trying to stop nursing to sleep, is the idea that they wake up more if they are nursed to sleep? What is the theory behind this? I'm just curious as my Dr Sears baby book says nursing to sleep is fine as long as you have a few different associations- like sometimes you rock to sleep, sometimes nurse and sometimes dad rocks to sleep.

I'm shattered today. Culver is definitely teething and all our improvements the last few days have gone out the window. He was up every 30-45 mins between 6-6!!

What do you guys do about teething? Just ride it out or do you give pain medication? I'm not opposed to pain medication but want to give it only on the few days he is actually cutting a tooth (not every night for a month, for example). I hope everyone had better nights than us! Xx

 

[stephie_corin]

I put LO down a half hour earlier last night and she woke up a half hour later this morning! So it would appear that bedtime was too late.

I might try a 6:30pm bedtime tonight and see if I can finally push her to that 6am wakeup, but it couldn't really be that easy could it?? I actually don't like having bedtime so early, it makes the evenings feel really rushed. Oh well.

I know this might sound like a daft suggestion, but could you get up earlier as a family, whoever is working go to work earlier and try to go to bed earlier. We are in bed by 10pm now no matter what as we know we have an early start. We know its not forever but shifting everything earlier has made the early bedtime and wakeups easier to deal with.

 

[seaweed eater]

Yes, the idea is that because of object permanence, it's jarring to them when they wake up in different circumstances than they fell asleep. Because everyone naturally wakes up between cycles, but the key variable is really whether the baby can go back to sleep or not. I think if they have different associations then it doesn't really address the underlying problem, because they still can't fall asleep on their own so will wake up needing something (whether it's nursing or dad rocking them or whatever)! But it certainly takes the pressure off mom, and maybe it's easier for them to fall asleep because they're more flexible or something. Our sleep training was essentially trying to get LO used to dad rocking him. So I definitely think there are merits to it, but I don't think it's a complete fix for a baby who really can't self-settle.

I would definitely give pain medication if LO is waking up much more often than usual. No teeth here yet so I'm not 100% sure, but from what I've heard I don't think that kind of disruption usually goes on for weeks. So you are probably pretty close. I hope it ends soon

 

[stephie_corin]

Yes, the idea is that because of object permanence, it's jarring to them when they wake up in different circumstances than they fell asleep. Because everyone naturally wakes up between cycles, but the key variable is really whether the baby can go back to sleep or not. I think if they have different associations then it doesn't really address the underlying problem, because they still can't fall asleep on their own so will wake up needing something (whether it's nursing or dad rocking them or whatever)! But it certainly takes the pressure off mom, and maybe it's easier for them to fall asleep because they're more flexible or something. Our sleep training was essentially trying to get LO used to dad rocking him. So I definitely think there are merits to it, but I don't think it's a complete fix for a baby who really can't self-settle.

I would definitely give pain medication if LO is waking up much more often than usual. No teeth here yet so I'm not 100% sure, but from what I've heard I don't think that kind of disruption usually goes on for weeks. So you are probably pretty close. I hope it ends soon

Ahhh. That makes sense and is also really depressing for me. I don't think my LO will ever self settle. He's not built that way... I think I'm going to go out and buy NCSS and start thinking about some strategies. Gah! And here I was thinking that all our rocking/nursing was fine. I have never put him down other than completely asleep. It makes night wakings really tough as it takes me a while to get him back into deep sleep.

 

[bananaz]

For those trying to stop nursing to sleep, is the idea that they wake up more if they are nursed to sleep? What is the theory behind this? I'm just curious as my Dr Sears baby book says nursing to sleep is fine as long as you have a few different associations- like sometimes you rock to sleep, sometimes nurse and sometimes dad rocks to sleep.

I'm shattered today. Culver is definitely teething and all our improvements the last few days have gone out the window. He was up every 30-45 mins between 6-6!!

What do you guys do about teething? Just ride it out or do you give pain medication? I'm not opposed to pain medication but want to give it only on the few days he is actually cutting a tooth (not every night for a month, for example). I hope everyone had better nights than us! Xx

The problem is that some babies become overly dependent on nursing to go to sleep so when they stir at night they think they need the boob to resettle themselves, even if they're not hungry.

If you follow Dr. Sears' advice then hopefully your baby wouldn't build that strong sucking-to-sleep association so it wouldn't be such an issue. That's basically what I did with my LO and I don't think nursing her down ever had a significant effect on her nighttime sleep. At a certain point it was a big hassle though, because she didn't nurse down peacefully anymore and would fight sleep. At that point I needed to help her learn how to go to sleep on her own because I wasn't going to battle her for 30+ minutes multiple times a day.

About the teething, to be honest I just give her ibuprofen before bed whenever I think she needs it. It's really hard to see what's going on in her mouth so I go by how she's behaving.

Edit: Yes, seaweed's point is important too. Falling asleep nursing in mom's arms and then waking up in bed must be very distressing for a baby!

 

[bananaz]

I know this might sound like a daft suggestion, but could you get up earlier as a family, whoever is working go to work earlier and try to go to bed earlier. We are in bed by 10pm now no matter what as we know we have an early start. We know its not forever but shifting everything earlier has made the early bedtime and wakeups easier to deal with.

That's actually a really good suggestion, but I'm a single mother and the person who usually helps me in the evenings is my mom and there's no way I'd be able to convince her to get out of bed earlier in the morning! And in the evenings she usually can't get to my house from work until 6pm so a 6:30 bedtime will mean I have to forego her help, which really sucks. I guess I'll just have to put on my big girl pants and get over it

 

[polaris]

I know this might sound like a daft suggestion, but could you get up earlier as a family, whoever is working go to work earlier and try to go to bed earlier. We are in bed by 10pm now no matter what as we know we have an early start. We know its not forever but shifting everything earlier has made the early bedtime and wakeups easier to deal with.

That's actually a really good suggestion, but I'm a single mother and the person who usually helps me in the evenings is my mom and there's no way I'd be able to convince her to get out of bed earlier in the morning! And in the evenings she usually can't get to my house from work until 6pm so a 6:30 bedtime will mean I have to forego her help, which really sucks. I guess I'll just have to put on my big girl pants and get over it

That really does suck! I actually did change my working hours to 8.30 to 4.30 as otherwise I literally would have had no time at all with Thomas in the evenings when he was going to bed so early. My OH works evenings so I do understand how crappy it is doing bedtimes on your own (but obviously the advantage for me is that he is quite often here during the day). I have such respect for single mothers, it's hard enough work when there is someone else to take over when necessary.

 

[Twister]

Hey ladies, not read all the responses but I hope everyone's having good nights.

Still down to 2 wake ups although I realised the other day that she usually wakes up once or twice before I go to bed at around 10-11pm so technically she's waking 3-4 times but I only have to get up twice Still it's better than it was so I can't complain.

She's still waking up early, this morning it was 5:45 and I ended up bringing her into our bed. I'm soooo tired in the mornings because of it and i'm finding it super difficult to stay awake once shes up for the day. We're working on it though.

 

[stephie_corin]

I know this might sound like a daft suggestion, but could you get up earlier as a family, whoever is working go to work earlier and try to go to bed earlier. We are in bed by 10pm now no matter what as we know we have an early start. We know its not forever but shifting everything earlier has made the early bedtime and wakeups easier to deal with.

That's actually a really good suggestion, but I'm a single mother and the person who usually helps me in the evenings is my mom and there's no way I'd be able to convince her to get out of bed earlier in the morning! And in the evenings she usually can't get to my house from work until 6pm so a 6:30 bedtime will mean I have to forego her help, which really sucks. I guess I'll just have to put on my big girl pants and get over it

I can't even imagine how hard it is by yourself. You are my hero! My DH works late and often isn't home until after C is in bed so I do bedtime routine by myself and it is tough, so I understand your reluctance! What's helped me shift from 5am to 6am wakeup is to literally be more stubborn than him for a few days an refuse to get up. I will rock him, nurse him or do whatever it takes to get him down that extra hour and I think their natural body clock will eventually adjust. If you want a 7am wake up, maybe try something similar to extend the natural wakeup time for a week and see if it makes a difference? It might be a stupid suggestion in light of he above posts about sleep associations but this morning I noticed it was easy to get him to sleep until six when he woke at 5 so even a few days of insisting on a later wakeup seems to have helped.

 

[Noelle610]

We had a weird night. C has been STTN consistently for about 3 weeks now. She was up at 11 and 5 and then woke at 6 crying, which is unusual for her. Teething? Who knows.

 

[bananaz]

I can't even imagine how hard it is by yourself. You are my hero! My DH works late and often isn't home until after C is in bed so I do bedtime routine by myself and it is tough, so I understand your reluctance! What's helped me shift from 5am to 6am wakeup is to literally be more stubborn than him for a few days an refuse to get up. I will rock him, nurse him or do whatever it takes to get him down that extra hour and I think their natural body clock will eventually adjust. If you want a 7am wake up, maybe try something similar to extend the natural wakeup time for a week and see if it makes a difference? It might be a stupid suggestion in light of he above posts about sleep associations but this morning I noticed it was easy to get him to sleep until six when he woke at 5 so even a few days of insisting on a later wakeup seems to have helped.

I think you're right and I need to just tough it out and refuse to get her up until 6. That was Noelle's suggestion too and I did it a few times but I never managed to actually get her back to sleep after her 5am waking so I got discouraged and gave up.

But let it be known that for the next week my child will not be exiting her crib until 6am no matter what, even if it means I have to stand there trying to pat her back for an hour while she screams and crawls away from my hand. Ugh

 

[bananaz]

We had a weird night. C has been STTN consistently for about 3 weeks now. She was up at 11 and 5 and then woke at 6 crying, which is unusual for her. Teething? Who knows.

Aw, poor Charlotte. We had a very similar night actually. E has also been STTN for weeks (well, her own ~9.5 hour version of STTN) but last night she was crying at 9pm and 3:30am and then up for the day at 5am, despite an earlier bedtime. I'm wondering if it's teething too, though we are approaching a WW here aren't we? She's been an absolute terror during the day for the past few weeks, and I mean that in the fondest way possible

 

[Noelle610]

We had a weird night. C has been STTN consistently for about 3 weeks now. She was up at 11 and 5 and then woke at 6 crying, which is unusual for her. Teething? Who knows.

Aw, poor Charlotte. We had a very similar night actually. E has also been STTN for weeks (well, her own ~9.5 hour version of STTN) but last night she was crying at 9pm and 3:30am and then up for the day at 5am, despite an earlier bedtime. I'm wondering if it's teething too, though we are approaching a WW here aren't we? She's been an absolute terror during the day for the past few weeks, and I mean that in the fondest way possible

Ugh I can't wait until these wonder weeks are OVER!!!

Charlie has been pretty cranky too, come to think of it.

I wish there was a baby thermometer that told you what was wrong with them. It could read "teething", "wonder week", "gas", etc.

 

[polaris]

I can't even imagine how hard it is by yourself. You are my hero! My DH works late and often isn't home until after C is in bed so I do bedtime routine by myself and it is tough, so I understand your reluctance! What's helped me shift from 5am to 6am wakeup is to literally be more stubborn than him for a few days an refuse to get up. I will rock him, nurse him or do whatever it takes to get him down that extra hour and I think their natural body clock will eventually adjust. If you want a 7am wake up, maybe try something similar to extend the natural wakeup time for a week and see if it makes a difference? It might be a stupid suggestion in light of he above posts about sleep associations but this morning I noticed it was easy to get him to sleep until six when he woke at 5 so even a few days of insisting on a later wakeup seems to have helped.

I think you're right and I need to just tough it out and refuse to get her up until 6. That was Noelle's suggestion too and I did it a few times but I never managed to actually get her back to sleep after her 5am waking so I got discouraged and gave up.

But let it be known that for the next week my child will not be exiting her crib until 6am no matter what, even if it means I have to stand there trying to pat her back for an hour while she screams and crawls away from my hand. Ugh

This is what I did with Thomas, I refused to get him up until 6 a.m. Initially I tried to get him back to sleep but that never worked so I just ignored him until 6 a.m. even if he was giving out - I only went in to check on him if he was really properly crying but I still wouldn't take him out of the room until 6. It didn't work to get him to sleep later but it did work to get me some extra time in bed because after a while of doing this he would just wake up and chat to himself happily for up to an hour before I eventually got him up.

 

[bananaz]

Ugh I can't wait until these wonder weeks are OVER!!!

Charlie has been pretty cranky too, come to think of it.

I wish there was a baby thermometer that told you what was wrong with them. It could read "teething", "wonder week", "gas", etc.

Oh my gosh, that would be awesome. It wouldn't even have to be that specific, just "in pain" or "frustrated" or "sick" or "pushing your buttons" would be awesome.

 

[aliss]

Need some advice girls.

P has been waking at 3-4am and is wide awake and cooing. He doesn't really cry much but he does eventually fuss. We're bedsharing. Right now I'm just pretending to sleep keep resettling him/not engaging and eventually he goes back down but it can take 20 minutes on a good morning and up to an hour on a bad one.

What to do... putting him in another room is not an option, we live in a very small place, Alex has the other bedroom, and any other place would wake Alex. I don't need 2 whiney babies.

He's on a pretty rigid routine.

6pm- bedtime (right away, no fights)
Night nursings (I don't mind this)
5:30am- awake (we're all awake at this time), of course it's been 3-4am lately
8-10am nap
1-3pm nap (these really don't change) -> not bedsharing, in his crib

He self settles fine.

 

[Noelle610]

Aliss, his schedule looks fantastic. We've gone through phases like this and the most vivid one in my memory was around 6/7 months. Charlotte was waking around that time and staying awake for an hour +. It was so frustrating! Unfortunately I don't have any wise wisdom - it just passed. I might try and cap naps at 90 minutes to see if it helps (try 8:30-10 and 1:30-3 if you want), but I'm not crazy about waking a sleeping baby at this age!