Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[stephie_corin]

It's 7 PM, I've showered and C is asleep!! DH is due back tonight. The 'ease you into bed' dance only took 40 mins... At the risk of invoking the BnB curse ... I call this progress!

I hope everyone has a great night x

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie that's great! Sooo nice when an evening is successful

My crazy little teether finally fell asleep at 9:30 last night but we did sleep in until 8 so I guess he still got his night time sleep.

I'll try 10:30 for nap today because of the sleep in, and see if we can do a two nap day.

Maybe I should really wait until these teeth erupt to change things up on him though...hmmm.

They're soooo close! I can see the white of one and he won't let me touch them.

 

[Aimee4311]

Seaweed, I hope everything is better tonight!

Last night threw me for a loop! I nursed Josalyn at 7 and she fell asleep! I figured it would be a small cat nap, but she kept sleeping! That's the earliest she's ever gone to sleep for the night.

She did wake up many many times in the night looking for boob, which I attribute to nursing to sleep, so that won't happen again (I hope!). But she slept until 7:45 this morning, so I still felt well rested!

I'm going to try and go with it to see if she's finally ready for an earlier bed time. Normally she goes down between 8:45-9:15. Never earlier though! We'll see!

 

[NotNic]

Gaia I swear Finlay teeths for 3 weeks out of every 4. Teething is relentless!! Personally I wouldn't wait to help him get good naps. You don't need to call cold turkey on the 3rd nap but just play it by ear. Some days he could have a brilliant morning nap and then a mid pm nap. Others he might be worn out in the afternoon and need an extra cat nap.

 

[Noelle610]

Hey girls! Sorry I'm not caught up. It's my daughter's birthday today and it's crazy at work.

Hope everyone is getting a little rest... Or is that too hopeful?

 

[seaweed eater]

Thank you everyone Polaris, I think what you suggested is just what we will do. Focus on reestablishing bedtime even if it's really late, and then see if we can bring it earlier. Especially since he actually slept really well last night once he was asleep (just a bit on the short side but not even that bad - 9:05-3:30-5:15-6:30).

I'm sorry the BnB curse got you too and that you had such a rough night. Really hope today and tonight are better. And that things get consistently better soon!

Stephie, so glad bedtime went better tonight 7 PM and 40 minutes sounds like a very good night to me. Hope things continue to get better. Also, re naps, I know it's not ideal to have to intervene to extend them, but I think it's a great first step. Once he's able to stay asleep on his own you won't have to make any adjustments to his routine.

Gaia, I'm sorry you are having the same bedtime issues. So aggravating I think moving to 2 naps may help though. I agree with NN, I wouldn't wait for him to be done teething. I think for a baby who's ready for a nap transition it doesn't actually help to wait. Even if the transition is hard, it's actually not any worse or more stressful than a routine that doesn't work anymore. And I also agree with playing it by ear at first. Just try to extend the WTs and make sure you don't end up with a too-late third nap (if it gets late then keep it short). See what effect that has. I hope things get better soon

 

[seaweed eater]

PS, to Stephie's point a few pages back about different cultural practices...I was talking to an Indian mom raising her daughter here in the US, and she mentioned that people in India would make you feel like a terrible mother for leaving your baby to cry for even 5 minutes. I asked her what methods they used for getting their babies to sleep, and she said, "I'm not sure. I guess they have a routine, and they sing them lullabies?"
Oh really?

 

[polaris]

PS, to Stephie's point a few pages back about different cultural practices...I was talking to an Indian mom raising her daughter here in the US, and she mentioned that people in India would make you feel like a terrible mother for leaving your baby to cry for even 5 minutes. I asked her what methods they used for getting their babies to sleep, and she said, "I'm not sure. I guess they have a routine, and they sing them lullabies?"
Oh really?

^^^
Wow I never thought of that! Must try the routine and lullabies!

Today was good, Clara settled easily for all her naps. Bedtime - we played the "stand up in the cot and then shout loudly until mammy comes and lies me down again" game for about twenty minutes but then she went off to sleep happily. We'll see what tonight brings. She is definitely teething and her tooth may even be very slightly through, I can see the white of it but she won't let me touch it to see if it is actually through the gum or not.

Stephie, yay, so glad that bedtime went a bit more smoothly. Yay for showering too - I never realized before having kids what a luxury an uninterrupted shower could be!

Gaia, I agree with Seaweed, I wouldn't wait for the teething to finish before changing things, honestly they are teething for so long, you might never get to change anything if you waited. I said to OH today that Clara was very close to getting another tooth and he said "oh so she has three now?" - this is actually only her second tooth but I have been saying that it is nearly through for about three weeks now so he just assumed this must be a different one!

Seaweed, good luck with the later bedtime - hopefully it will help him to settle easier. It doesn't really matter if bedtime is late once he's not getting overtired. And hopefully once he's going to sleep easier you can gradually move bedtime a bit earlier again. That was a lovely long stretch of sleep from 9.05 until 3.30! Don't think Clara has ever slept that long, bless her.

Noelle - hope Charlotte (and you) have had a lovely birthday!

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks, you ladies are right! He has been teething forEVER.

Soooo today:

Up at 8

9:45 he was clearly tired so took him to his room and put him to sleep (slept 10-10:45)

Then again around 12:45/1 put him down (slept until 2)

Now it's 4:30 and he's tired! So he will sleep until 5!??

Ack...what to do in this situation!?

What should I do to get him down to 2 naps, just increase wake times even though he's rubbing eyes/fussy?

What if he wakes after one cycle? Try puttin him back down!? It doesn't work as often as it used to...

 

[seaweed eater]

Gaia, we're still having 80%+ one cycle naps, and two per day. I think for a lot of babies the nap lengthening actually follows the longer awake times. It hasn't happened consistently yet for Munchkin, but it's getting better gradually. And now he's used to two naps and won't take more most days.

In the future I'd try to stretch the WTs, yes, especially the second one -- even if he seems tired. I know Munchkin sometimes seems tired when he's not ready for a nap yet. It seems weird after months of trying to catch their first tired signs, but it can be better to wait longer for older babies. IME. Plus, you are just trying this out. If it turns out that he can't sustain longer WTs at all, you can go back.

As for what to do today, I would give him a catnap (no more than 30 mins) now if you haven't put him down already.

 

[Shadowy Lady]

I feel like I shouldn't even post here but I have a question guys: Sofia's been sleeping at around 6:30 pm for the past 4 months. In the past week or so though, she stays up when we put her down whining, crying and talking until closer to 7:30 pm (we're putting her down at 6:45pm). I'm not really complaining as she sttn till around 6:30 am but wondering if I should put her to bed later? Maybe have her in bed by 7:15 pm or even closer to 8 pm?

Here's how her day goes:
- wakes up at around 6:30-7 am
- naps from 10-11:30 am
- naps again from 2:30-3:30 pm

I'd appreciate help on this

 

[gaiagirl]

SE, he did take a 30min catnap and was up at 5. I'm going to do bed at 8, I think 3 hours is reasonable.

I will try longer wake times and see how it goes. I mean at this point, it's not like there's anything amazing going on that I risk losing, hahahhaha.

Shadowy, I have little to offer since my baby won't self settle at all so no experience but do you think it takes her 45min to soothe to sleep? If so she would still not sleep until 8:45 then? I guess only one way to find out!?

 

[seaweed eater]

Shadowy, I think you could try aiming for 7:15 or 7:30 sleep time with that schedule. Has she been waking up any later in the morning with the later bedtime? Or have you ever found her to wake up later if she happens to go to sleep late? 3 hours seems on the shorter end for the last WT and on the longer end for the first one, so I almost feel like you might be able to shift her night forward by half an hour and keep the naps the same. Depends on the baby of course -- not if she won't nap less than 3 hours after waking up in the morning, for example.

So obviously tonight we had an early and super short bedtime I am so not complaining. Nap ended at 3 and managed to avoid a car nap so he was just exhausted by 7:30 and asleep in less than 10 min. I'm sure it will be the opposite again tomorrow.

 

[Aimee4311]

Well we're back on track with not nursing to sleep. She went down at about 9:05, it's now 10:25 and she's still sleeping!

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, C still only does one cycle and rocking him back to sleep has been the key to making sure he can stay awake for 3 hours. I think the first week of nap transition is tough on them - C has definitely been more fussy. I'm sure there are gentle ways of transitioning but we have just gone cold turkey and I'm being a mean mamma and ignoring his tired signs. I take him outside when he gets fussy and it always perks him up. If I were you I'd go for an earlier bed time tomorrow rather than a cat nap.

Aimee, I wonder if she is growth spurting? I hope she is ready for an earlier bedtime, it will be nice for you guys to have some adult time in the evening. Oh, just saw your next post! Yay for no nursing to sleep!

Polaris, what is with these babies and their mouths! If I even look like I'm going to go near his mouth to investigate what is going on his lips clamp together and goes mmmmm mmmmm while shaking his head. I hope you have a good night hon, you deserve it.

Noelle, happy birthday to Charlotte!

SE, how did you avoid the car nap?!? Amazing!!! So happy for you! Oh, and the old routine and lullabies! Why didn't I think of that!?!?

Shadowy, I agree, push her bedtime to 730ish or cut short one of her naps - maybe make the morning nap a cat nap and bring the next nap a bit earlier.

We had night one of C in the bed with us. It went pretty well. We still had 1-2 hourly wakings but it was easier to settle him. Also, I had a massive breakthrough. One of my friends mentioned she rubs her baby's back and he goes I sleep. Aimee, I think you do this too? She suggested I should rub Cs tummy. It was such a simple suggestion but it worked! When he woke after 45 mins I lay next to him and rubbed his belly and he fell back asleep! I did this twice before going to bed but as the night wore on it got less effective.

Also, he had been hysterical these last two days before his first nap. What has calmed him down both times was doing a loud shhhhhh in his ear, which reminded me of when he was a new born and had sensory overload and white noise was the only thing that would calm him (hair dryer etc). It's funny how quickly they change. Rocking had no effect whatsoever but shhhhh worked a charm!

 

[gaiagirl]

Thanks Stephie, I am
not sure how much I wanna keep trying to get him BACK to sleep at every nap but I guess you do what you must.

The only thing that slightly concerns me with early bedtime is that he tends to ALWAYS wake up 10-11 hours after going to bed. So last night he went to bed at 9:30 and woke at 8, lovely. If he went to bed at 6:30 it could be 5!!!!!!!! I would really like to keep a 7:30 bedtime if possible...

So tonight: bed at 8 went SUPER smooth and he stayed asleep for over two hours without needing any intervention!!!!!!

Yay for adult evening time!

 

[NotNic]

Gaia - as ridiculous as it sounds you might want to try waking lo up at 7am to increase the awake periods which would give them more time to fit in a 3rd nap if required from the long periods of awake time, so doing something like:

Up 7am
Nap 1 9.45 (stretch to 10am after a week or so)
Nap 2 1.45 / 2pm
Optional Nap 3 / Quiet time 4.30 for 30mins
Bed / Bath routine from 6.30pm
Bed 7.15-7.30

You will notice that the naps will be closer to 2.5/3hrs soon across the two naps which will make the 3rd nap easier to drop. Also I appreciate 3hrs gap is a long time to be awake so maybe tweak to be 2hrs 45min to begin. Also as mealtimes become more of a proper feature a lot more of these minutes will be used up, plus squeezing in milk feeds too makes the longer awake times necessary.

Also if you are worried about the 3rd nap being too late you could have story time and a quiet period. We often do that. We sit and have a cuddle and read. It's a useful tool when he's fighting a nap. Often he does pass out on me but its more of a power nap. IME though a late nap has never interfered with bedtime of 7.30/8pm. If I've worn him out enough he can't make it to bed without a late nap he's usually tired enough to go to sleep normally! Obviously sometimes he'd be tired around 5.30/6pm but on those days I start the routine earlier and aim for 7.15/7.30 instead.

Belated happy birthdays to Elsie and Charlotte xx

 

[polaris]

Seaweed - yay for the early bedtime! I would say that things will get easier as he gets a bit older and it is possible to keep him awake in the car.

Stephie, that's great that he settled with you rubbing his tummy! I always try back rubbing and also stroking her cheek or the back of her neck, sometimes it works but sometimes only nursing will do! What co-sleeping arrangement did you go for in the end?

Shadowy - I would try bedtime at 7 p.m. initially, you might find that she settles easily at that time after a longer stretch of activity. It's normal for bedtimes to shift a bit as baby gets older. You might need to move it even later but I would try 7 p.m. first.

Gaia - yay for an uninterrupted evening!

Aimee - that's great that that things are back on track with not nursing to sleep.

We had a much better night last night. Only three wake-ups which is not too bad. The only concern that I have is that nursing doesn't seem to be settling her back to sleep as well as it used to. She seems to get quite alert and then rather than going straight back to sleep she is fussing/crying when I put her back into the cot after nursing. She did go back to sleep quite quickly each time last night but I'm thinking maybe it's time to work on feeding cut-offs again and try and cut back on night feeds a bit.

I totally missed that Elsie turned one too - belated happy birthday!

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia I think if three naps are working, including the cat nap and a late bed time, then go with it. Notnic has given you some excellent advice. Two naps works for us when considering Cs total wake time and unlike your LO, he is up at 5-530 regardless of when he went to bed!! I'm so jealous, I think I'd put C to bed at 9 every night! So I wouldn't rush two naps.

Polaris, we are actually going with your fantastic suggestion of mattress on floor and sidecar cot on lowest setting! We haven't done it yet as DHs flight was delayed last night and we were asleep when he got in, but we discussed it this morning and think its the best option. I'm not against extended bed sharing, but for us, I would prefer him to be in his own bed when he is STTN. Although at this rate he may be with us still when he is 30.

Does Clara feed at each night waking? Do you think she is hungry or just comfort nursing?

Can I ask what age you put her in her own room? How did she cope with the switch from bed sharing?

 

[stephie_corin]

It's our weekend and DHs first taste of life on two naps. I think he has a new appreciation for how ridiculous my life is! Ha! He's witnessed first hand me pinning C on the living room floor to breastfeed (he is boob stubborn and distracted) and holding him for 1.5 hours for his nap. Lol. At least it gives me some uninterrupted Internet time, even though my right arm has gone dead!