Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[AngelUK]

Thank you all so much for your responses You are sweet! I will think about your advice thank you. I hope all your sleep and nap problems will resolve themselves very soon xx

 

[polaris]

Well after our great night on Sunday night we had an awful night again last night. Clara actually slept all evening until 10 p.m. which was nice but then she woke at 10 and wouldn't go back to sleep until maybe 1.30 or 2. She didn't seem like she wanted to be awake but she just couldn't settle. Maybe teething again? (Forgot to mention she got her second tooth the day after one of our recent dreadful nights). Eventually I gave her Nurofen and she did settle after that so I'm thinking she must have been uncomfortable. I probably should have given it earlier. She slept OK the rest of the night until my 3 year old woke us both up at 6.30.

Stephie, we have that bouncy chair, it's great! Thomas used to nap in it a lot but Clara never used it for sleeping although she loves bouncing herself in it. I used to bounce Thomas for the duration of all his naps for ages because he would wake up if I stopped bouncing! I think in the end I just moved him to the cot for naps and I do remember it was a lot easier than I was expecting. Thomas always cried for about five minutes before naps but then would go to sleep, I used to sit beside him with my hand on his tummy. He cried before naps when I was bouncing him in the bouncy chair too though so it was actually no difference after I moved him to the cot.

Seaweed, I would be reluctant to move to one nap at this age. Could it be developmental, is he working on anything major at the moment? With both of mine they have gone through phases of seeming a bit wired when they are learning something new. Of course it's possible that he might drop to one nap early but I would hold out for the moment and see if this phase passes.

 

[stephie_corin]

I've decided to go cold turkey on rocking. Tonight we lay on the bed and I held him and he nursed and fell asleep in my arms! It still took 30 mins but I'm so pleased. We did rock in the rocking chair for ten minutes just to wind down but I think that's ok!

Polaris, the things we do for naps!!! I'll have a mental image of you rocking Thomas every time I use my chair now! I'm going to try tomorrow just holding him on our bed and see how it goes (for naps as well as bed time).

I'm so sorry you had a rubbish night. I hope it is just teething and the tooth pops out ASAP!

SE ignore my comment about 1 nap, I'm sure everyone else is right!

Good luck for tonight everyone! X

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, good luck with your plan. How wonderful that he fell asleep with no rocking tonight! I hope you find he just doesn't need it anymore! Munchkin used to nap in his bouncy chair months ago. I think we stopped around 4 or 4 1/2 months. It wasn't really difficult at all, but he wasn't falling asleep as well after being bounced so I think he was ready. Also, I was never able to extend his naps that way, anyway (although I know he was much younger and could only be expected to take catnaps). I'm not sure what my point is I guess just that if you think he's getting big for it, you might as well try. I think your bed is probably more similar to wherever you will want him sleeping in the long term (in that it's horizontal and doesn't bounce!) so it might not be a bad idea to get him used to that for naps.

Aimee, I agree with Stephie, if it's working for you and for J, no need to change it!

Polaris, so sorry you had a bad night last night. I hope the next tooth is out soon. Glad to hear she finally got the second one, I was feeling a bit concerned about how much longer it could be for us

I'll write an update on us a bit later. to all, hope tonight goes well.

 

[Aimee4311]

Stephie- she unlatches herself if she'd just feeding, not trying to go to sleep. If she's trying to go to sleep (nap time) I rock or pat her while nursing her. Normally. There's been only a couple of times in recent months where she just fell asleep at the boob with no assistance from me.

When she falls asleep at the boob I have to wait until she's deeply asleep to unlatch her or it wakes her up and she gets angry!

It's tiresome work, getting babies to sleep!

 

[seaweed eater]

We had just an awful night, and no new teeth to show for it. So tired today.

I have a question for you ladies though. I was talking to a friend who said that when she did CC with her very persistent baby, she set a time limit of 45 minutes and at that point would go in and do whatever it took to get LO to sleep if she wasn't asleep yet. And that she did in fact have to stop at 45 minutes on several occasions at the beginning. She said it did work, though probably more gradually than it would have if she'd stuck with CC for however long it took each night. I was surprised because to me it would seem like going in at 45 = intermittent reinforcement = baby who will *definitely* cry for 45 minutes every night. But my friend said she found that her daughter just didn't seem to find it worthwhile once she got better at self-settling.

What do you guys think about an approach like that? I would be so much more willing to try that, if I thought it would help, than do "real" CC and endure the hours of crying that 1000% for sure would result.

 

[bananaz]

We had just an awful night, and no new teeth to show for it. So tired today.

I have a question for you ladies though. I was talking to a friend who said that when she did CC with her very persistent baby, she set a time limit of 45 minutes and at that point would go in and do whatever it took to get LO to sleep if she wasn't asleep yet. And that she did in fact have to stop at 45 minutes on several occasions at the beginning. She said it did work, though probably more gradually than it would have if she'd stuck with CC for however long it took each night. I was surprised because to me it would seem like going in at 45 = intermittent reinforcement = baby who will *definitely* cry for 45 minutes every night. But my friend said she found that her daughter just didn't seem to find it worthwhile once she got better at self-settling.

What do you guys think about an approach like that? I would be so much more willing to try that, if I thought it would help, than do "real" CC and endure the hours of crying that 1000% for sure would result.

My LO's pediatrician recommended a similar approach. He said to start with 15 minutes and then increase the time by 10-15 minutes each night, with a max of 45 minutes. I never tried it because it seemed crazy to me, but who knows!

 

[stephie_corin]

SE I guess it depends on Munchkin's temperament. If he is stubborn and wilful, you could be right and he may just learn to cry for 45 minutes. Have you done cc before? How long did he cry for? I recommended this blog post to Twister and you might find it useful:

https://www.healthytippingpoint.com/2012/12/adventures-in-baby-sleep-training.html

She had an upper limit of 60-90 mins for regular crying (with intermittent checks) but said she never got close to that. So having an upper limit can't be too uncommon.

Good luck. You are a sensitive, intelligent woman. I'm sure whatever sleep training route you go will be the right one for your family xxx

 

[stephie_corin]

DH and I were talking this morning and he thinks things have definitely got better. I agree with him! Normally we would be up and down every half hour or so between 6-10 to pick Culver up and rock him or nurse him to sleep. The last few nights he has slept solidly with only 1 wakeup until 930-10 when we get to bed. I nurse him and then he sleeps next to me now. Last night was amazing ... He still woke frequently but I didn't have to get out if bed and rock him. The most I had to do was pick him up. At 5am when he woke I did sit in bed and sway back and forth to get him to sleep. I had to do this a few times but he woke at 6am!!! Yay! That last hour is always the most difficult but I'm hoping with time I will just be able to cuddle him and one day he will even sleep through! Ha! I live in hope!

I'm just nursing him now for nap 1 and he cried a bit as he is used to bouncing and rocking but not too much crying and Im just about to put him down on our bed. It's proving to be quite difficult but I will persevere! X

Edit - I tried to ease away from him and he woke crying. Now I'm holding him swaying gently on the bed. Not sure if this is progress? I guess I can't expect too much from him as he has always taken naps in his chair (for the last few months anyway). I don't want him to only be able to nap in my arms. That half hour in his chair twice a day was a sanity saver!

Edit again - I've tried putting him down three times but all he's done is cry. Should I keep trying to break him of his bouncy chair sleep addiction? My instincts say yes but my arms say no, and my bladder!

 

[gaiagirl]

DH and I were talking this morning and he thinks things have definitely got better. I agree with him! Normally we would be up and down every half hour or so between 6-10 to pick Culver up and rock him or nurse him to sleep. The last few nights he has slept solidly with only 1 wakeup until 930-10 when we get to bed. I nurse him and then he sleeps next to me now. Last night was amazing ... He still woke frequently but I didn't have to get out if bed and rock him. The most I had to do was pick him up. At 5am when he woke I did sit in bed and sway back and forth to get him to sleep. I had to do this a few times but he woke at 6am!!! Yay! That last hour is always the most difficult but I'm hoping with time I will just be able to cuddle him and one day he will even sleep through! Ha! I live in hope!

I'm just nursing him now for nap 1 and he cried a bit as he is used to bouncing and rocking but not too much crying and Im just about to put him down on our bed. It's proving to be quite difficult but I will persevere! X

Edit - I tried to ease away from him and he woke crying. Now I'm holding him swaying gently on the bed. Not sure if this is progress? I guess I can't expect too much from him as he has always taken naps in his chair (for the last few months anyway). I don't want him to only be able to nap in my arms. That half hour in his chair twice a day was a sanity saver!

Our babies and our sleeping arrangements are SOooo similar!

Seaweed, one nap? Sorry I didn't go back very far because I'm short on time but that seems unusual! Babies really ARE all individuals though, you just never know.

We have had an interesting few days. All started with my mother putting F down for a nap when we were visiting yesterday. He took a soother again (it's been MONTHS of refusing it) and she rocked him to sleep! No boob!

Then I was able to get him to sleep with it several times today. And transfers to the crib with a soother in!? Easy peasy! Can't believe it!

Now...on the other hand, he's crazy teething and woke up hysterical this evening poor baby. He's never cried like that in his whole little life Broke my heart. Soooo not all good, but some interesting progress

Soothers = no boob to sleep = DADS turn to deal with him! Lol

 

[VikkiD]

Hope everyone is ok Daniel is sleeping through but mornings are getting earlier this morning it was 4.30 I gave him a bottle an managed get him go sleep at 5 till 6. Is day routine yesterday seemed good wake around 5.30 nap at 9-10.10 another nap 1:30-2:40 asleep at 6:50 the only other thing I have done is take his afternoon bottle of him maybe he still needs this as last night he gulped his bottle like he's never had milk before 9oz an at 5am he drank 8oz really fast. I am grateful he's sleeping better but these early mornings are a killer

 

[jade1991]

I knew I was getting closer and closer to needing this thread haha.

Millie now wakes at 530 every day. It doesnt matter if she goes down at 6/630/7 she still wakes at 530 although this, i thought i could handle. However this past week her old crying when i leave her room stunt has come back with a vegence. She goes into full meltdown when i walk out, stands in her cot throws hee comfort blanket and dummy out.... occasionally i can leave hee for 5 mins and she will settle and go to sleep but others she literally screams for an hour ( i go back and for in 5-10 min intervals to give her her dummy back.

Now shes started waking crying in the night 1-3 times a night. If i go in and she sees me i have to stay there til shes asleep. Last night she woke at 130am in play mode! I went back and for, ended up with her in mt bed for half hour and she still didnt settle, took her back to her cot and 5 mins of crying she was asleep. That was 3am. Then she woke at 530 ready for the day.

I feel like im running on empty. I work too and all this interupted sleep is getting to me now. Has anyone got any suggestions to what i can do to try and improve the hassle of bedtime and help her sleep better?! Thanks ladies

 

[Sunnie1984]

Ok - time to catch up!


Polaris - I know, it's horrible that they grow up so fast! Seren absolutely loves the walker, she's been pushing it all over the living room!

With Thomas, have you tried quiet time around the time he would usually nap. Maybe a bit of TV or reading book? So he gets the downtime without actually going to sleep?

Definitely sounds like teething with Clara. Hope it settles soon.

Aimee - Sorry Josalyn is so resistant to change!

Stephie - I know, it's so funny she still has no teeth! I don't think there are any coming either! It's great you are making progress with the no rocking. If it helps, the baby whisperer has a book called "THe baby whisperer solves all your problems". It's like a trouble shooting book for when you want to change things. I find it works really well, and it's useful to have something written down to try, as you can keep checking it I have a copy if you want to borrow it?

I agree on the giving solids on waking, so that he at least gets used to eating at that time. As it's new and exciting you can usually get them to take something!

Melly - I'm glad Jordan has been making progress on the whole. I hope she sleeps well on your vacation.

Skipping naps are just the worst!

Shadowy - I think it's just the change to the new sleep pattern, we got some early wakings from Seren as we made the later bedtime. Hopefully it will settle down.

Seaweed - Thanks for the tips on separation anxiety. I'm just rolling with it for now. I find if I sit on the floor with her, she goes off to play, and then I can get up and do something for a little while, which is great.

I hope you have more luck with the resettling in the morning. Seren is the same, mega grumpy if she gets up too early.

I'm also in the same place with naps. I think you may have to cap both naps, so that he is awake early enough for bed. Some babies have really long final wakings, so you may need to make sure he is awake for 3pm?

No idea on the CC - but I think everyone else is right, it must depend on your baby and how they would take to it. I guess it's normal to have a personal cut off point though.

Notnic - Thanks, that really helps.

Bananaz - I've been thinking about Elsie a little. Last night Seren slept until 4pm for her last nap, and was a nightmare to get to bed, followed by three night wakings. I think she was undertired again.

Have you thought about capping her naps? So Elsie is awake by 3:30pm at the latest for a 7:30pm bedtime? You might have to cap both morning and afternoon naps a little bit to get her there.

I wonder if robbing too much nighttime sleep may be a bad idea, as naps and night sleep aren't related?

Also, if you are in the transition period for one nap, have you though about begging to extend her morning awake time by just ten minutes, and holding it for a few days, then increasing by another 10 again? That might get her to head towards one nap, but gently?

AngelUK - I'd say begin to stretch the morning awake time by 10 minutes every few days, with the intent to move to one nap. You can give an earlier bedtime while they adjust? Alternatively, same as I've said to Bananaz - try capping both naps?


Gaiagirl - No boob to sleep sounds great!

Vikkid - maybe he's hit a growth spurt - can you increase the milk he has during the day?

Jade - I'm not sure what to suggest, but the other ladies will!

xxx

 

[NotNic]

Jade - that sounds tough. Does she have separation anxiety in the day? F doesn't tend to cry when I leave the room at bedtime. He can be a jack-in-a-box so I just lay him back down in a boring way - no cuddles, no eye contact. I also have his Alfie Vtech Bear and a couple of soft bricks so I sometimes lie him down and give him Alfie. Sometimes the distraction works. Also rather nuttily I have been known to say sweet dreams, lay down on the floor next to the cot and pretend to be asleep when we're having naptime 'discussions'. Quite often that at least gets him to sit down and calm down. Could you also think about not leaving the room - just sitting quietly but not somewhere she can interact with you? So at least your presence is reassuring.

Vikki - rather than removing the on bottle completely could you give him a smaller 4/5oz bottle as a snack? Also talking of snack when we first dropped the bottle we replaced that with water and snacks to help bridge the gap.

Angel I agree with the one nap advice. I thought the same as soon as I read your post.

Apologies it was a few pages back, but I think it was Seaweed who was considering needing one nap? Around that age we did occasionally get one nap days. Around 5pm was horrific! It was mostly developmental and we were having occasional 3hr naps from 9.40. I think Noelle suggested to me about capping that nap but I was too chicken!! We got past it by doing lots of floor playing - crawling, standing up, basically making sure he was so worn out 2 naps were essential! He's more used to the activity now so doesn't really work anymore except for nursery.

Here something strange has happened. A couple of days this past week he's woken at 5am. He's not crying so I leave him. He then goes back to sleep on his own sleeping in between 6.20 today (though I opened the curtains to wake him up gently) and 7.30 yesterday. This from the boy who rarely made it to 6.30am!! Also last Monday's bad, bad night was explained as a tooth appeared on Saturday morning. A definite pattern has emerged. The worst nights - up 6-7 times before 3am are followed by a tooth within the week. That has happened with all of them now. Maybe it's the same for some of your teething babies.

 

[VikkiD]

Sunnie - I think I will try him back on 3 bottles today to see if that helps maybe he's not ready to drop one yet xx

 

[Bun87]

Hi ladies, hope you don't mind me crashing this thread.. I am feeling hopeless about naps my little boy will not nap, he fights them all day long! It's really getting me down, I feel so frustrated with him and I know it's not his fault Noelle, you have replied to a few threads of mine about sleep issues, thank you

I think I'm just hoping that there is some light at the end of this dark tunnel. Does or did anyone have a really bad napper that got better? I'm waiting for the no cry nap solution book to arrive, has anyone used this?

Here are Jac's naps and sleep from 8:30pm last night - he is 6.4 weeks old:

8:30pm - 12am sleep
1-4am sleep
5-7 sleep
8-8:45am nap
11-11:45am nap
1:50-2:20pm nap
5pm to present, nap.

He is currently napping on me with white noise playing. He has woken up twice but I've managed to get him asleep again thank goodness. Right now ill let him sleep on me for hours if he wants, he looks so tired x

 

[Gidz]

Bun - his naps looks good to me. At that age, they cat nap often. How long is he awake for? I think the max should be no more than an hour at his age. Also, sleeping on you is very common. He is so young, enjoy it now. Soon enough, the length of his nap times will improve and he will be sleeping by himself.

 

[Bun87]

At all other times he is awake, today has been a good day - sometimes he will stay awake for 6 hours solid. He's awake again now so will have some activity time then try and get him down after next feed. I love cuddling him while sleeps, I just wish he'd do it more - I hate seeing him tired! x

 

[stephie_corin]

I'm about to head to bed... Will catch up with everyone properly tomorrow. I just wanted to say we had another good evening. No rocking and he has been asleep for almost 2 hours with not a peep. Naps were pretty terrible. I had to hold him for all of them but I guess it's a work in progress!

Sending everyone lots of sleepy vibes xxx

 

[Gidz]

At all other times he is awake, today has been a good day - sometimes he will stay awake for 6 hours solid. He's awake again now so will have some activity time then try and get him down after next feed. I love cuddling him while sleeps, I just wish he'd do it more - I hate seeing him tired! x

Six hours is an awfully long time. I think he may be overly tired. I would aim to have him nap an hour after he wakes/eats. Do you use a pacifier? Around six weeks is generally when they are recommended to be introduced ( especially if you're nursing).

Try and have a "nap" routine so that he understands it's nap time, along with reading tired cues (rubbing face, blanking out, etc). My dd has only just started napping on her own (she's 18 weeks now). Her first few months I did whatever it took to get her to sleep for atleast an hour, if not more, for each nap. Otherwise, I knew my nights would suck. I.e. rocking in glider, singing to sleep, stroking her head for relaxation, baby massage. It's so tiring on you but worth it in the long run.