Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Just a quick post to update - we had a great night last night! Only two wakings at 11 and 4 and straight back to sleep after a feed both times! Now why can't she just do that every night?? I feel so well rested this morning.

 

[NotNic]

Sunnie I agree about WIO as a whole. Almost every baby has a phase as they start understanding consequences and the fact you can leave them. I largely tried to ignore unnecessary tears. If he's clinging to my legs and I'm not cooking etc. I let him hold on but don't pick him up. If I am doing something where we could get hurt I unpick him and sit him down away from me. Throughout the day I'd leave him for a few seconds and come back with a peek-a-boo and big hellos so he's used to me returning. I tried my hardest not to pick him up if he's just crying for attention. The advice about saying goodbye properly and succinctly is great advice. It's how my nursery encourage us to act

 

[stephie_corin]

Melly, enjoy your vacation! Where are you headed?

Notnic, that is such a great idea!! Thanks! We already do breakfast on waking so I will start doing solids after his other wake times too.

Shadowy, sorry about the early wakings.

SE, how frustrating! The smallest nap resets Munchkin completely! I guess in some ways I'm lucky that C will only fall asleep after rocking and nursing as it means I can control his sleep a bit better. I hope you find a solution to the car naps! And definitely watch Arrested Development when you get the chance, it's so funny!!

Polaris, yay for Clara sleeping well! Hopefully this is the start of a new, good sleep pattern for both of you!

Aimee, how have your nights been?

I went to a baby group this morning and made the mistake of saying how badly C has been sleeping. They are all so nice but it makes me feel bad that he is sleeping so badly when everyone else has perfect little sleeping babies!

I hope everyone has a great day and gets lots of sleep tonight

 

[bananaz]

polaris - So glad you had a good night I hope it's the start of a trend!

seaweed - Ugh, car naps are the worst! I try to avoid them whenever possible, except if I think LO needs a little catnap to keep her from being overtired before bed.

Shadowy - Sorry about the 5:30 waking, but at least she's not pooping and she's going back to sleep until 7am! Hopefully whatever's making her stir will pass.

stephie - Sorry to hear about your rough night. That sounds seriously awful I hope you're able to find some time for rest today.


Just need a quick vent about these darn early wakings. LO is still getting up between 5 and 5:30am every day and it's getting really old. For the past couple weeks I've been letting her fuss until 6am and it seemed to work for a couple days but then she went back to the early wakings.

She is taking two naps most days so she's not overtired and I've been making sure she's up before 4pm so it doesn't interfere with bedtime. She goes down between 7pm and 7:30pm and I don't think an earlier bedtime would help because the one night I tried putting her down at 6:30pm she was up at 4:45am

I'm really running out of ideas here. Should I move her bedtime to 8pm?? Try my original tactic of nursing or patting her back to sleep again even though it never worked before? Just give up?

 

[Aimee4311]

Hey y'all! We're doing fine, still not nursing to sleep. I haven't worked up the will power to try refusing to give her the boob in the middle of the night though. I feel well rested even though she was latched to me probably half the night.

But I think the 2+ hour stretch she's giving me in the beginning of the night is really helping me feel human! I get to play board games again with OH and our friends and not have to sit out for half of it from having to repeatedly get her back to sleep! Zombicide is our board game if choice right now in case you're wondering!

I plan to start cutting back the night feeds slowly. I just need to gather the willpower!

 

[bananaz]

Hey y'all! We're doing fine, still not nursing to sleep. I haven't worked up the will power to try refusing to give her the boob in the middle of the night though. I feel well rested even though she was latched to me probably half the night.

But I think the 2+ hour stretch she's giving me in the beginning of the night is really helping me feel human! I get to play board games again with OH and our friends and not have to sit out for half of it from having to repeatedly get her back to sleep! Zombicide is our board game if choice right now in case you're wondering!

I plan to start cutting back the night feeds slowly. I just need to gather the willpower!

Yay, so glad things are improving and you're getting a bit of a break

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Bananaz - early mornings suck! I would try a slightly later bedtime since you seem to have tried everything else. Can you put her down at around 7:45pm?

So I guess the previous nights might have been a fluke coz last night I put her down at 7:30 pm and she slept till 6:45 am It was nice of her to do so as my hubby is away on business this week. Of course I was up at 5 am waiting for her to wake up, boooo!

 

[mellyboo]

Oh man what a night ... I put her to bed early because i was soo tired and so was she she was so tired she fell asleep in OH arms in the rocking chair she never does that anymore shes never wants to be rocked he put her down in her crib didn't hear a peep till about 11ish she was on her tummy woke up and must of felt off because she started to cry she can get off but its on her own time she just whine's until i get her off most of the time but she has no problem rolling around the living room floor some times.. strange anyhow.. so again she's up at 3am and won't go back to bed till 4 am AUGH she slept right through till 7am here thank god I was so tired this morning...

I'm going to make sure she has her usual nap around 3pm because yesterday she skipped it and was all messed up..

 

[seaweed eater]

Shadowy, glad this morning was better!

Bananaz, I'd try a later bedtime too...maybe for a couple of nights or more to really get a sense of what happens. Might not work, but you won't know for sure until you try.
Or, do you think she's ready for one nap? You said two naps most days so maybe you have some days with one nap -- are those any different?

Stephie, so sorry you had a rough night hope you got some rest! Hate that curse! Yeah, talking about sleep at baby group can be hit or miss. Sometimes people are sympathetic, but sometimes it just makes me feel like such a mess.

Polaris, that is an awesome night! I hope there are more like it on the way!!

Aimee, I'm glad things are going well as long as you are feeling rested and things are better at bedtime I don't think you should be in a hurry to stop the night feeds. She's learning how to settle without the boob at bedtime, and that will transfer to NWs when it's time to start feeding her less. You can always start working on it as soon as it becomes a problem for you.

Melly, I'm sorry you had a rough night I hope LO is feeling better and you have time to get some rest today.

So-so night here, and too short = grumpy LO in the morning. I just wish he knew why he sleeps in some days and not others -- ha, don't we all! But he seems to be up between 5 and 6 most days, it's just that sometimes it's a NW and he goes back to sleep for another cycle or two and sometimes he's ready to get up. For the past few weeks I've been trying to keep him in his bed in the dark (sitting by his bed and shushing -- I can't ignore him or he'll really cry) until 6 but it doesn't seem to have changed anything. Except for DH, who lets me take a nap when LO wakes up and who therefore gets to sleep until 6 every day now

 

[AngelUK]

I know I don't really belong here any more but still like to read up on your progress and see if I can pick up a tip or two re napping. But first:

Bananaz I was wondering, what time does Elsie wake from her last nap? I always try to have the boys awake for about 4 hours to 4h30 before bed time or they won't want to sleep without kicking up a fuss (I say they but I mean Dominic). Also, how many hours a day does she nap? Might she nap too long? My boys sleep for about 12 hours a night and only about 1h20 for one nap max and then usually 40 mins for the second nap.

As for us, I just wanted your experience or thoughts on this dilemma. My boys now wake after 7am each day (YAY!) but this causes me a problem with how to time their naps. Usually I would keep them up 3h30 between naps which meant 1st nap at about 9:30am to 10am maybe 11am and then second nap 1:30 pm to ca 2pm. Now however this doesn't work out any more. By my rule of thumb they should now nap at 11am to 12:30 but then the second nap would be far too late in the day for their 7pm bed time. But if I skip the second nap they would be up for 6h30! Can you imagine?! Any ideas?
Hope all are well and sorry for butting in like this after all this time.

 

[polaris]

Bananaz, you could try moving the whole schedule forward by an hour, i.e. change naptimes too (and meal times and feeds if possible). Pretend that the clocks have changed and just do everything an hour later. Could possibly work although it never did with Thomas, he somehow always adjusted back to waking at 5.30. I ended up just giving up. It didn't fix itself until he was ready to move to one nap.

AngelUK - it sounds like your boys might be ready to move to one nap - I would try keeping them up until 11.30 or 12 and then give them an earlier bedtime temporarily until they (hopefully) adjust to one nap.

 

[Sunnie1984]

Bananaz - have you looked at the possibility of just one nap?

She may be undertired, not overtired? I remember Elsie was more sensitive to undertired than over tired - like Seren?

You could move bedtime later, but maybe an extension of the first awake time is needed to get to one nap, and an earlier bedtime? xx

 

[bananaz]

So many responses! You gals are too sweet.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter whether she takes two naps or one, or how long her wake time is before bedtime. In fact, looking at the only 2 times she slept in past 6am this month, the first day she had 1 nap and was up for 5.5 hours before bed and then the second day she had 2 naps and was up for 3.5 hours before bed. I really think she's just trying to mess with me!

She generally gets between 1.5-2.5 hours of naps a day, so I believe that's pretty typical for this age? Not sure. She only gets around 10 hours of sleep at night though (sometimes less), and I don't think that's enough.

Bananaz, you could try moving the whole schedule forward by an hour, i.e. change naptimes too (and meal times and feeds if possible). Pretend that the clocks have changed and just do everything an hour later. Could possibly work although it never did with Thomas, he somehow always adjusted back to waking at 5.30. I ended up just giving up. It didn't fix itself until he was ready to move to one nap.

That's an interesting idea, I'll have to think about that one!

Bananaz - have you looked at the possibility of just one nap?

She may be undertired, not overtired? I remember Elsie was more sensitive to undertired than over tired - like Seren?

You could move bedtime later, but maybe an extension of the first awake time is needed to get to one nap, and an earlier bedtime? xx

You're definitely right, she's way more sensitive to being undertired than overtired, and I think that's becoming more pronounced as she's gotten older. We've had a few tries at a single nap but I don't think she's quite ready yet, so we're stuck in that weird transition phase again! I will be trying a later bedtime tonight though, we'll see if that helps...

 

[seaweed eater]

Ugh, today LO's nap ended at 3:20, I put him down at 7:30 after he fell asleep nursing (for less than a minute), he woke up instantly and now at nearly 8:30 is still wide awake. I tried sitting quietly with him in his room but be wouldn't even sit still so I took him outside to play some more, and he's been playing completely independently FOR AN HOUR. I'm sure he's undertired, because when I wait until I see sleepy signs he usually goes down super easily. It's as if he wants to drop a nap, but that's completely impossible...right?? Tell me that's insane?

 

[bananaz]

Ugh, today LO's nap ended at 3:20, I put him down at 7:30 after he fell asleep nursing (for less than a minute), he woke up instantly and now at 8:30 is still wide awake. I tried sitting quietly with him in his room but be wouldn't even sit still so I took him outside to play some more, and he's been playing completely independently FOR AN HOUR. I'm sure he's undertired, because when I wait until I see sleepy signs he usually goes down super easily. It's as if he wants to drop a nap, but that's completely impossible...right?? Tell me that's insane?

Oh no, I hate when they fall asleep for a moment and then it somehow counts as a nap! There's no way he's ready to drop to one nap at 8 months though. Sounds like he's just having a weird night. I'm crazy jealous that he'll play by himself for an hour, though I'm sure it's a wee bit obnoxious that he's doing it when he's supposed to be asleep lol

 

[seaweed eater]

Yeah, he's generally really ready for his first nap at 9 so I can't imagine trying to keep him awake until midday. His mood seems to improve significantly after each nap, even though his naps are usually 40 minutes. He's really grumpy and clingy in the morning and recently has been super happy and active in his last WT. I wish he'd somehow get more sleep at night. He's asleep now btw! I put him down a few minutes after I wrote the above. BnB curse, stay away.

 

[stephie_corin]

Aimee, Zombicide sounds hilarious! It's nice having some time to yourself in the evenings. What time is she heading to bed now?

Shadowy, I hope she keeps sleeping in! It's tough when DH is away.

Melly, sorry she woke up in the night!! I hope you catch up on some rest.

Bananaz, my ability to get C back to sleep varies greatly, like SE. The last few days have been 610, 555, 515, 630 and today 540. I think I have the most success when I get to him just as he has woken up. I think you've had some good suggestions though and I think you may as well try a later bed time. As an aside, I now have the same problem as Polaris in that his days are never the same as he has different wakeup times!! We've decided to set an alarm for 6am (we live in hope!).

SE, you seem to be having the same problem as us! I have a similar deal with my DH. He takes C for a walk no matter what time he gets up and I take another 10-15min snooze. It's nice to have a small rest in the mornings! Regarding naps, C is now having 4 hours between his last nap and bedtime and its still taking him 30 minutes or so to settle. Maybe you need to increase the last waketime?
EDIT- sorry SE I just did the maths and you've got a 4 hour waketime. Stupid sleep deprived brain! This is such a distractible age. I have no idea how our boys are functioning on so little sleep!!

Angel, that sounds tough!! I'm not sure of the answer but good luck

We had an ok night. He did another great 2 hour stretch after going down and I think he was up around 7 times between 10-530. I'm sure his teeth are bothering him again.

I've decided to make a plan of action to tackle over the next few months and I think I'll start with naps. My goal is to help him get to sleep with minimal assistance. So I'm going to gradually reduce the amount of rocking and also try the gentle removal method once I think he has finished nursing. Also, he currently sleeps in his bouncer chair - it's a baby bjorn babysitter if that means anything to anyone. Should I start getting him to nap on our bed instead? The beauty if the bouncy chair is I can give him a quick bounce when he wakes after 20 minutes and often he will go back to sleep. I fear we will be back to 20 minute naps if I change his napping place but he is getting too big for the chair and bouncing won't further our long term goal of SLEEP! Ha!

Xxx

 

[stephie_corin]

SE, I've done a google search on one nap for babies previously and anecdotally there are some mums with babies as young as 7 months on one nap. I agree, 8 months is so early, but what have you got to lose? Or maybe make his morning nap a 15 minute nap and let him take an earlier, longer afternoon nap (if he wants). I think Cully is a candidate for an early nap transition as he can stay awake for hours if I don't force a nap on him! X

 

[Aimee4311]

Good luck with the gentle removal, Stephie! When I try and gently remove the boob, even if she was mostly asleep, Josalyn starts rooting again, angrily!

I have Josalyn nap on our bed, but I sometimes wish she'd nap in her crib. She hasn't slept at all in her crib since like 2 months.

If you're planning to transition him back out of your bed anytime soon I'd say keep him napping in there to keep it associated with sleep! For Josalyn it's a play area in the mornings!

We're back to the late (as in, asleep by 8:45-9:15) bedtime... 2 nights in a row this week we had an early bedtime and it didn't work out. Both of those mornings she woke up in the 6 o'clock hour and was miss cranky pants all day. Both of those days she ended up having 4 naps too.

I'm happy with her being asleep by 8:45-9:15. It seems to suit her well. We're a late family anyways, we're all night owls!

 

[stephie_corin]

Aimee if it suits you guys no need to change a thing, I think! We're the opposite, I love an early night and 6am is no bother to me I think on one of the other threads Noelle said waketime preferences and bedtime preferences can be genetic!

I'm just putting him down for nap 2 and so far I haven't bounced or rocked him. He's nursing so I'm watching for the right moment to unlatch him. It's hard as I don't want to stop him taking milk as he is down to only 3 proper day feeds now. So what do you do Aimee if not gentle removal? Do you wake J up if she falls asleep nursing? X

Edit- damn he fell asleep! He did open his mouth for more but when I didn't put it back in he wasn't remotely fussed and kept on sleeping!!

Edit again- he woke after 20 minutes and I bounced him in the chair to get back to sleep. On reflection, rocking is much harder on me in the night than nursing (as I have to get out of bed!) - had anyone had any luck breaking the rock to sleep habit? I thought I should start rocking less and less until he is happy just being picked up or patted. But I'm not sure how quickly to reduce the rocking...