Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Noelle610]

Jade, what's her daytime schedule like? How long has this been going on for? So sorry to see you here!

Bun, I think Gidz gives good advice. I'd try shortening your wake times. The cat naps are normal at this age and while frustrating, it doesn't last I promise! You may see naps lengthen if you shorten his wake time as well, thus minimizing the possibility that he's overtired.

On CC/CIO and time limits - My unprofessional opinion is that they don't make sense. You do it or you don't and you have to stick with it. Utter consistency is key. If you have a baby that's crying excessively after the first few nights, you may want to consider that the method you're using doesn't suit his/her temperament.

 

[Bun87]

At all other times he is awake, today has been a good day - sometimes he will stay awake for 6 hours solid. He's awake again now so will have some activity time then try and get him down after next feed. I love cuddling him while sleeps, I just wish he'd do it more - I hate seeing him tired! x

Six hours is an awfully long time. I think he may be overly tired. I would aim to have him nap an hour after he wakes/eats. Do you use a pacifier? Around six weeks is generally when they are recommended to be introduced ( especially if you're nursing).

Try and have a "nap" routine so that he understands it's nap time, along with reading tired cues (rubbing face, blanking out, etc). My dd has only just started napping on her own (she's 18 weeks now). Her first few months I did whatever it took to get her to sleep for atleast an hour, if not more, for each nap. Otherwise, I knew my nights would suck. I.e. rocking in glider, singing to sleep, stroking her head for relaxation, baby massage. It's so tiring on you but worth it in the long run.

In the night, once he's down he stays asleep. He wakes for feeds then goes straight back to sleep. Do you think I'm missing his queues? When I see him rub his face or yawn we go straight up and I put him in the crib and rock him. He starts fussing and I never let it get to crying.

It's exhausting me too as I don't have a single minute to o anything all day ! x

 

[Gidz]

At all other times he is awake, today has been a good day - sometimes he will stay awake for 6 hours solid. He's awake again now so will have some activity time then try and get him down after next feed. I love cuddling him while sleeps, I just wish he'd do it more - I hate seeing him tired! x

Six hours is an awfully long time. I think he may be overly tired. I would aim to have him nap an hour after he wakes/eats. Do you use a pacifier? Around six weeks is generally when they are recommended to be introduced ( especially if you're nursing).

Try and have a "nap" routine so that he understands it's nap time, along with reading tired cues (rubbing face, blanking out, etc). My dd has only just started napping on her own (she's 18 weeks now). Her first few months I did whatever it took to get her to sleep for atleast an hour, if not more, for each nap. Otherwise, I knew my nights would suck. I.e. rocking in glider, singing to sleep, stroking her head for relaxation, baby massage. It's so tiring on you but worth it in the long run.

In the night, once he's down he stays asleep. He wakes for feeds then goes straight back to sleep. Do you think I'm missing his queues? When I see him rub his face or yawn we go straight up and I put him in the crib and rock him. He starts fussing and I never let it get to crying.

It's exhausting me too as I don't have a single minute to o anything all day ! x

This sounds exactly how my dd was. I thought because I saw her first yawn I hadn't waited too, too long but I didn't see how she was gazing at nothing beforehand. I really count on the clock, which a lot of people wouldn't agree with. Even if I don't see her yawn or gaze and its been x amount of time, I start with the nap routine. 9/10 she goes down without a fight. It's taken me a long time to figure her out, tho, and yea I don't have anytime to myself really but it's getting better.

Another thing, I help to elongate her naps by going in and shushing her back to sleep at the 45 minute mark. She always wakes up 45 minutes after I put her down for a nap, so I started sitting by her around that time and shushing her back to sleep. I only had to do it a few times. Also, if she only naps for like 30 minutes and the shushing doesn't work, I'll pick her up and rock her back to sleep. At first, I was nervous she would become dependent on me to fall asleep at night, too, but someone here reassured me and told me that babies day/night sleep (circadian rhythm) is controlled by different parts of their brain.

 

[seaweed eater]

Good morning everyone! :wave:

Thanks to everyone who commented on the one nap idea. I think you're all right. I don't think he really wants one nap right now; he's just really excited to be awake. But the answer is probably not to cut his sleep.

Stephie, so glad to hear things are getting better and you had another good bedtime! Certainly sounds like great progress! Regarding the bouncy chair, I wonder if there is a way you can listen to both your instinct and your arms...what if you tried keeping him in the bouncy chair for now but not bouncing it, and instead taking him out and swaying with him or soothing him however you would if he were in bed?

SE I guess it depends on Munchkin's temperament. If he is stubborn and wilful, you could be right and he may just learn to cry for 45 minutes. Have you done cc before? How long did he cry for? I recommended this blog post to Twister and you might find it useful:
https://www.healthytippingpoint.com/2012/12/adventures-in-baby-sleep-training.html
She had an upper limit of 60-90 mins for regular crying (with intermittent checks) but said she never got close to that. So having an upper limit can't be too uncommon.
Good luck. You are a sensitive, intelligent woman. I'm sure whatever sleep training route you go will be the right one for your family xxx

You are too sweet! What we did before was kind of a CC/PUPD hybrid with 3 minute intervals, or longer if it seemed like he was winding down. I think we had 4 nights total where he cried for over an hour, once an hour and a half, and he was sick once too. And the night before last we had an awful MOTN party where he just really seemed to want to get up and play, and even though we weren't "sleep training" neither DH nor I would let that happen...and he basically screamed for an hour (while we tried to calm him), was sick, and then cried intermittently for another half hour while DH tried to put him down. So...based on that I think we'd be in for a lot of crying. I just don't really have the stomach for it. I can barely sleep myself afterward. But on the other hand, I know it's not good for him to be fighting sleep so much. Sometimes he is clearly so tired and just will not let himself sleep. So I feel like we need to do something.

Thanks for the link. I think I always just dismissed that approach because it didn't make sense to me to have limits. But on the other hand I'm clearly not willing to try it without limits, so even if it's not as quick to work, I'd try it if it were likely to help rather than hurt.

My LO's pediatrician recommended a similar approach. He said to start with 15 minutes and then increase the time by 10-15 minutes each night, with a max of 45 minutes. I never tried it because it seemed crazy to me, but who knows!

That does seem like it would be pretty confusing. Maybe not for a baby for whom 15 minutes is enough?

Gaia, hooray for sleep with no boob!! I sometimes wonder whether I should try giving Munchkin a pacifier again, but then I worry (irrationally, I think) about weaning him off that! I do think it would make it easier to weaken the boob association, and as you said, transfers to the crib would be much easier. I'm sorry about the teething I hope the teeth in question are out soon!

Vikki, I'm sorry about your early mornings. I hope that if you can get him back to sleep with a bottle consistently then at least he'll be in the habit of sleeping later and you can work on getting rid of the bottle after that. Glad things are better overall

Hi Jade I'm sorry about the separation anxiety, that sounds really hard. Mine does a less intense version of that -- sometimes he's just fine when I leave the room at bedtime and sometimes he screams. I don't know what you are willing to do in terms of sleep training but perhaps something like gradual withdrawal/camping out might be a good fit. That way she can gradually get used to you being away from her and hopefully realize that you're still nearby. Another thing I've read people do, which might be helpful now that she's old enough to understand you a little, is leave for less than a minute during the bedtime routine. Like say "I'm going out for a minute, but I'll be RIGHT BACK to give you a kiss!" and then do that. Just to practice. I can also imagine that would make bedtime stressful, though, if it's too much. Maybe even just peekaboo?

Regarding the early mornings, what are her naps like? Also, 6-7 sounds a little early to me as a bedtime for that age, although someone with a baby that age probably knows more. So between 6 and 7 there is no difference in when she wakes up?

Sunnie, I think the playing on the floor thing is great. I find often LO just wants me nearby and then is happy to play by himself, whereas if I were to sit on the other side of the room he'd be upset. I just have to be careful not to do anything too distracting like being on my phone or laptop

NotNic, I totally do the same thing with lying down next to the bed and pretending to sleep I think you are exactly right about its being developmental, and about making things more active during the day. I've been trying to do more of that, especially in his last WT, and hopefully tire him out more by bedtime. I think it does help. I'm so glad you've had some nice late mornings and that all your bad nights have been explained by teething! It's so reassuring when there's an explanation for it, even though it doesn't make it any less painful for them.

Hi Bun I'm really sorry you are struggling. Your boy is so little, I don't think you should feel badly about things being a bit all over the place. That said, your WTs seem much too long for 6 weeks. What happens if you try to put him down much sooner? I'd try the approach Gidz suggests of going by the clock, just for a day or two to see how it goes. I would try 45-60 minutes.

Also, I think having a nap routine is wonderful, but it doesn't have to mean napping in the crib if that's not her preference. Many babies prefer to sleep in motion at that age. Totally normal and they outgrow it. If she's fighting naps in the crib, you could try a sling or wrap, swing, bouncy chair, or stroller. It's more important to make sure they are getting enough sleep than to insist on the crib on this age IMO. But I'm sure some experts disagree.

On CC/CIO and time limits - My unprofessional opinion is that they don't make sense. You do it or you don't and you have to stick with it. Utter consistency is key. If you have a baby that's crying excessively after the first few nights, you may want to consider that the method you're using doesn't suit his/her temperament.

Thanks Noelle. Makes sense. That's what I'm afraid of. I love your new avatar photo, BTW! Gorgeous.

 

[seaweed eater]

Holy moly, that really was a novel!

 

[Noelle610]

Thanks hun!!

 

[Aimee4311]

Josalyn just self-settled! I'm still in shock! I was nursing her, and normally when she's done I have to rock her to sleep. Tonight when she was done nursing she rolled away from me then onto her tummy, shifted around a bit, and FELL ASLEEP!!!!

This is the first time she's self-settled to sleep. She does it in the middle of the night between cycles at least a couple of times/ night but hasn't just fallen asleep herself since her uber-sleepy newborn days!



On a side note, she learned to use a straw today. The first time she got a mouthful she spit water over half the table! Maybe learning that tired her out? Or inspired her to put herself to sleep!

 

[seaweed eater]

Awesome news, Aimee!!!

 

[jade1991]

Hi girls.. another 5am wakeup here.

I have tried everything, she has a comfort teddy, I sometimes use white noise still, i do stay in the room with her and shhh pat and that usually works but sometimes takes over half an hour and i cant bend over her cot for that long my back kills lol. She woke once last night but settled herself without me going in, but still woke at 5am

Seaweed I would be willing to sleep train definitely, what would you suggest? I have done CC before and it did work but this time doesnt seem to be working at all.

Noelle, i have to be honest her day schedule varies due to her childcare. When shes home with me she has usually a nap 9-11ish and then 3 til 4 ish. At nursery she only sleeps 12-2. When she has a second nap i find she has been waking a little later in the morning (630) however yesterday she had 2 naps and its obviously made nodifference. My OH wants to make her a bottle to give to her in her cot, but as soon as she sees me the separation anxiety begins.

She is like it in the day too. When i walk out the room she has a meltdown, screaming choking the lot. I thought this phase would pass but its been about 3 months like this now!

We are going on holiday for a week today, so im even more wary because obviously her schedule is going to be completely different!

Thanks for all the advice ladies, keeps me sane!!

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, there's only a week between our boys and they do sound so similar! Do you give him the soother overnight? I'm so glad you're having such good progress! Sorry about the teething though it's horrible to see them so miserable.

Vikki the early mornings are so tough!! Hugs.

Jade, Notnic has given some great advice. I hope you can sort things out soon. It must be hard going to work with no sleep!

Sunnie I'd love to borrow the book, thank you! Very sweet of you! Sorry you are struggling with naps too. How does Seren sleep at night now?

Notnic, thanks for the suggestion regarding feeding solids on waking. He's not eating much but it's a great pattern to be getting into.

Bun, I agree with the others. He's so little, he really needs very frequent naps. Although my son at that age would often stay awake for 2-3 hours! Some babies are hard to wind down. I really recommend happiest baby on the block. He has some great suggestions for calming young babies. He suggests swaddling, shhhhhing and this funny shaking movement where you lie the baby with their head slanted down on your lap - if you google you will find a video I'm sure. It worked so well for us.

Noelle, on reflection I agree with you in respect of the cc and having an upper limit. Cute avatar!

SE, how does he respond if you try to parent him to sleep? C has zero ability to fall asleep on his own and will just get worked up and either cranky or want to keep playing if I don't step in and nurse him or help to wind him down. I'm firmly of the view that we need to teach our babies to sleep by themselves but as Noelle said, CC/CIO may not work for every baby. Perhaps you could work on first of all helping him get a good night sleep. Rock him, nurse him, whatever it takes. Once you have a few days of a better routine, you could start implementing some slow, patient techniques to help him to sleep independently. I'm so sorry if you have already tried this!

Aimee you are my sleep hero I'm so happy for you! Josalyn is doing so well!!

Polaris, how was your night?? I hope Clara slept perfectly for you.

We had another pretty good night. The worst time for us seems to be 430-6. In this time I have to pick him up every 15-20 minutes to get him back to sleep. He's crying out so doesn't want to be awake. The darn second bottom tooth which I thought was through 10 days ago is still just below the surface. It's so close I can actually see it just under the gum. So this might be bothering him. I've also woken up with a very sore throat and we sleep face to face so he may just be feeling poorly... Although that doesn't explain the last few months. Lol.

I'm still struggling to put him down for his naps. I used to be able to transfer him to the bouncy chair really easily as when his eyes popped open I could bounce it a few times and he would go back to sleep. Now when I try to put him down he just cries. I need to just stick with it though as it won't get any easier to break him of his bounce addiction! Although SE you've got a good suggestion. I could actually bring the chair upstairs into our room so he gets used to sleeping here so it isn't such a big transition from living room/bouncy chair to bedroom/bed, and then not bouncing the chair when I put him in.

Anyway, I'm going to keep trying to put him down! Have a great day everyone xxx

Edit- in the words of eminem I've created a monster! He's sleeping like an angel in my arms but its like his world has ended as soon as I gently place him on the bed.

 

[stephie_corin]

Jade, sorry we cross posted! I don't have experience with a baby as old as your LO but I wonder if a consistent routine would help. Maybe on days she is with you you could do one nap also? I hope the others have some good advice for you x

 

[VikkiD]

I gave Daniel is afternoon bottle yesterday he took 5oz an this morning he slept till 5:50 I on the other hand was up at 4:15 waiting for him to wake. Will try keeping him on his third bottle for now to see how that helps.

 

[jade1991]

Hey steph, thanks for the reply, i have tried doing one nap with her shes pretty inconsistent sometimes she refuses a nap at 9 and waits til 11 then thats her one nap. It never makes a difference to her nightimes

I used to be so good with her naps/nightime sleep i was so switched on. I posted countless threads when she was 7/8 months old and then we had it nailed, now its gone completely to pot haha. X

 

[Noelle610]

Aimee, yay!!

Jade, I think a consistent schedule is a good place to start. Does she have to take one nap at daycare? If so, I think I'd push her into that schedule. Ideally, though, she'd still take 2 at this age if at all possible. I'd also set an out of crib time of 6am. If she wakes earlier, you treat it as a night waking. You don't want to get her in the habit of getting up so early and often that time will get earlier and earlier if re-enforced. If you leave her, will she be happily awake or get upset?

 

[mellyboo]

She didn't wake up last night! After a horrid couple of days I feel like a new person!

 

[Noelle610]

Melly that's wonderful news mama!

 

[AngelUK]

Noelle I love your new avvie! So cute

 

[Noelle610]

Thanks Angel! My DH took it while we were on a picnic

 

[Aimee4311]

When I have to rock Josalyn to sleep standing up I lay down when she's almost asleep and continue gentler movement in bed. Then when she's out I remove my arm from under her and get up. That way she's in bed when she falls fully asleep and there's not the sudden transition from up and warm to down in bed and cold(ish) to wake her up.

That's just how I do it though!

 

[NotNic]

Jade - I've just realised how old your lo is. I'm sure Polaris or Noelle mentioned awhile ago that some babies have a sleep regression / another WW around a yr old. I was distraught when I heard because its would be timed to hit my first few weeks in work!

Stephie - can you reassure your lo with a firm hand on the tummy sitting in the chair? A few months ago there was a program on Channel 4 in the UK called Bedtime Live and one of the cases they treated was a baby that had to be rocked or jigged. They nicknamed the baby the motion addict! Their advice was to stop any type of motion stimulation, but to place a hand firmly (but not heavily) on your baby's tummy or back as reassurance. The parents were told not to rub or pat but just keep the hand constant until they were fully asleep. They then did gradual retreat until the baby had learnt to ss. The professionals opinion was that the movement stopped them learning to settle on their own. Might be worth a go.

Finlay had a brilliant sleeping day yesterday. A full 90mins in the morning and 40mins in the afternoon both at nursery!! I then had to wake him up at 6.30am this morning. I was nearly late for work!!