Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[stephie_corin]

SE I know you may not know the answer to this but what happened between the sleep training and now? Is there anything that you can point to that's made his sleep bad again? Do you think it's just teething? It sounds like you did have amazing results with the sleep training before so maybe you just need to bite the bullet and do it again. It really does sound like you've tried and thought about everything!

I wish I could put C down awake. It's a work in progress for us. I agree, if you've managed to reach that point it would be silly to go back to helping him right to the point of sleep. I just thought it might help with his erratic bedtimes - do whatever it takes to get him down asleep until he settles better into a routine. I know with C if I didn't help him to the point of sleep he would often quite happily get a second wind and push through playing for an hour or two.

Good luck SE! X

 

[polaris]

Stephie, that's brilliant news about Cully settling for his nap on the bed with no rocking! Yay! Well done!

Urrgh, sorry about the mastitis Aliss, hope you've caught it early and it clears quickly.

We had another fairly good night, three short wakings. We're going away for the long weekend tomorrow though so I'm sure that will totally mess up her sleep just as she's sleeping a bit better!

 

[kettle28]

Hooray! Glad for babies doing better!! Kettle wave, Polaris, Aliss...all great news!

Although so sorry about the mastitis, Aliss! Argh!!!

Kettle, does your LO wake up from being near the cot bars? Mine likes to stick his feet out and I was thinking of getting breathable bumpers, but so far it hasn't caused extra wakings or any kind of problem. Knock on wood. I see you there, BnB curse.

Yeh, he bangs his head! Has a bit of an issue with seeing me in the night though or I would get those breathable air wrap jobs

Invoked the curse good and proper! Either that or lo's snottiness is a cold coming, longest sleep 1.5hrs, woke 17 times!!!! Sometimes only 16-20mins apart!!

But, at all times was tired and wanted to sleep, and never awake more than 20odd mins so great improvement

 

[stephie_corin]

Kettle, 4.5-5.5 were my absolute darkest days (nights!) with the worst night wakings. I'm so sorry you are going through it!! Hang in there.

Polaris! So happy for you!!! Yay for sleep

Good luck tonight everyone!

 

[Noelle610]

Kettle, 4.5-5.5 were my absolute darkest days (nights!) with the worst night wakings. I'm so sorry you are going through it!! Hang in there.

Me too!

 

[seaweed eater]

Me three. So sorry, Kettle. 17 times is no joke. I hope it passes quickly

Stephie, I know -- I feel a bit stuck to be honest. I think the bedtime thing probably would have happened even if we'd continued, because it seems developmental. The increased NWs and early waking are probably a combination of not SS and bad habits reintroduced due to teething. We probably will try some sort of sleep training the next time it seems like things are really bad, but he will have to adapt to it better than last time or we'll stop again. I'm not willing to sustain that amount of crying if there's an alternative involving far less (we're currently dealing with the bedtime issue by not starting the routine until he seems really tired, which seems to work for now). Most days he's cheerful and doesn't seem sleep-deprived, even though he's getting significantly less sleep than I think he would have ideally. But as long as he seems ok, I'd much rather deal with more and irregular wakings, to a point, than with making him (and DH and me too) so upset every night.

What's really confusing is that both Sears and Weissbluth/Ferber seem to believe that, while all methods work for most babies, only their method works for persistent/slow to adapt/intense babies. It really seems like there are no good options. Who knows, maybe we will try training again and it will just work this time.

 

[stephie_corin]

Big huge hugs to you SE. When they are 30 and we are old ladies I'm sure we won't be worrying about their sleep. I wished you lived closer and we could leave the daddies on night duty and go do something wild like see a movie and not feel so stressed about how little sleep our boys are getting.

I think having a flexible bed time isn't a bad idea at all. Our bedtime changes depending on naps and how exciting the day was. I think it's more important to have a consistent wakeup time in the morning. Good luck with tonight

X

 

[Noelle610]

What's really confusing is that both Sears and Weissbluth/Ferber seem to believe that, while all methods work for most babies, only their method works for persistent/slow to adapt/intense babies. It really seems like there are no good options. Who knows, maybe we will try training again and it will just work this time.

LOL I know! This is confusing.

I don't want to give you more reading, but "Good Night Sleep Tight" by Kim West aka the Sleep Lady has a more middle-of-the road approach.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thank you Stephie I wish that too, that would be really fun! I think our boys will be just fine in the long run. Munchkin takes after me in many ways, and some of these same traits that are making sleep challenging for him have served me really well in my life. He's such a fun baby and I wouldn't want him to be any different. It's just getting through this sleep stuff that's hard. And it's much easier to see the bright side of it all after a good night last night!

Thanks Noelle, is that the same Sleep Lady who recommends a kind of gradual withdrawal training method? That's exactly what I was thinking of trying next time we find ourselves needing something! I haven't read her book obviously but I've read about the method online.

 

[Noelle610]

Thanks Noelle, is that the same Sleep Lady who recommends a kind of gradual withdrawal training method? That's exactly what I was thinking of trying next time we find ourselves needing something! I haven't read her book obviously but I've read about the method online.

That's her!

 

[gaiagirl]

Aliss - I am sorry about the mastitis! Of course there has to always be a price to pay for success it seems . Glad about the night wakings though.

Stephie - Nice progress! Doesnt it feel awesome when they impress us with something like that?! I agree with you about learning emotional regulation/self soothing at different rates. It really is a milestone that comes with time, like walking/talking/eating/etc. It really is a hard one to wait out sometimes though!

SE - Not sure what to suggest, I know you have likely thought of everything since I know how much time and energy you put into it...I think you are doing the right thing with bedtime, and it sounds like at least you arent battling every evening so thats a plus!

AFM - He is still taking the soother which is a bit mind boggling but I will take it! It means he can be rocked to sleep (although this is slow and I am lazy) so I usually nurse until hes drowsy and swap out the soother for boob . It makes crib transfers WAYYYYYYYYYY easier so he is again back in the crib for naps and evening. I really hope that curse isnt real because I cannot handle that changing again right now! LOL.

Major win today: He woke only 20 min into a nap clearly not rested, all I had to do was put the soother back in and hold my hand on his shoulder and he drifted right back off...He has not done anything close to this for about 14 weeks. May not last but it IS progress!

Teeth-wise he is getting like 4 right now and is a bit cranky but doing pretty well. He has taken to yelling a lot these days, not crying/screaming but YELLING to express himself which is loud but pretty funny...

 

[kettle28]

Ha ha! Baby shouting!! They are so intense when they do that!!

Longer awake times definitely helping lo with bedtime, teeth are bugging him something rotten, spent 15m chewing my finger earlier

Only woken 4 times since 6.30, feed x2 and dummy x 2

 

[Aimee4311]

Kettle- Sorry it was such a rough night last night! I'm glad tonight is already better!

Seaweed- good luck! Do you have a date in mind when y'all will start sleep training again?

Polaris- Yay for a good nap!

So Josalyn hasn't self-settled again, but I can tell she's trying! She keeps rolling over onto her belly and shifting around a for a couple of minutes, then she starts grumbling while still shifting around like she can't get comfortable. Then she'll start crying, so I pick her up and rock her a bit and lay her back onto her belly.

Last night I only had to pick her up and put her back down once and then she talked herself to sleep. Tonight I tried several times and decided when it had been 30 minutes to just rock her to sleep then lay her down.

She's getting a lot easier to settle for her naps and her night sleep! (Other than tonight, but we're trying something new!) She's going down with less and less help from me and we're seeing real progress!
(Please no BnB curse, please no!)

 

[seaweed eater]

Gaia, that's great!! Sounds like things are going much better with the soother! I think the yelling is pretty cute
And thanks I'm thinking as long as we're WIO we might as well try to avoid bedtime battles. We'll see how long it lasts.

Kettle, sounds like progress does LO have any teeth yet? And do you give anything for pain relief?

Aimee, hooray!! Sounds like you are doing just the right things to challenge her and she is responding wonderfully! She is going to be a self-settler and a great sleeper before you know it.
We don't have a date in mind for starting sleep training again, no. Just when I feel sufficiently fed up! It would help if the second tooth were through, but I've given up waiting for that.

 

[stephie_corin]

It sounds like everyone had a good night and some progress! I'm so happy for you all! Hopefully the rest of our sleep deprived pals have done as well.

We had a pretty good night too! He had a funny awake period for about 45 minutes at 3am but we only had wakeups at 10pm, 1am, 3am and 430-5isb! This is an amazing night for us! He also went down well for his nap but I kicked something over on the floor (doh) and woke him so he is now asleep in my arms.

Gaia, 4 teeth! Poor little man!

Kettle, 4 times is a huge improvement on 17! I bet you feel great!!

Aimee you are doing so well. 30 mins is also my upper limit at night. I rocked C last night too when he was slapping his hand against his leg and singing at 345am!

SE, yay for a great night! I agree, I don't want to change C either! I'm sure all of our little night monkeys are having trouble sleeping because they are so interested in the world around them!

As an aside, I was thinking about object permanence last night at 3am and I thought that surely if a baby is always rocked/nursed to sleep and always wakes up in his cot, then it's something they would expect? You know how we all do our sequencing for bed time (bath + massage + books = bed time) so why can't milk/rocking + sleep = cot? I don't think I buy the 'fall asleep in the living room, wake up in the garden' analogy because if I always fell asleep in the living room and woke up in the garden then it wouldn't be a surprise?

Am I missing something?? Not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely very interested in this.

Have a great day xxx

 

[VikkiD]

Lo slept through till 5.30 why do I still feel knackered lol.

 

[gaiagirl]

Stephie I suspect it's more just the association of how they fall asleep. They rouse between cycles, look around and think "Oh, this isn't how I go to sleep, I go to sleep with physical contact and motion and nursing etc etc" and it's a maturity milestone to get to the point where they can overcome that and relax back into sleep on their own.

I agree, my LO is sooooooo curious and interested in everything and SO physical and easily bored...sleep is just not high on his agenda Wouldn't change him for the world!

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Gaia, it's really fascinating. I'd love to have a greater understanding of Cully's sleep, and baby sleep in general.

We had a truly bad night. I couldn't let him out of my arms and he would wake crying every 30 mins even in my arms. At one point he was chewing on my fingers so not sure if its teething. I have him paracetamol but it didn't make a difference. I'm still sick and I'm wondering if he has the same thing as me. I know I felt rubbish last night.

Although I'm also wondering if he had too much day sleep. He took two much longer then normal naps - 1 hour 15 in the morning and 1 hour 40 in the afternoon. I was really pleased he took such long naps but I wonder if it affected his night sleep? He went to bed at 645 and up at 550am this morning.

I hope everyone had better nights than us!

 

[Aimee4311]

Aww, poor boy! Sounds like a rough night, Stephie! I hope he's not sick!

So far ours is ok. She needed me to rock her to sleep. I kept giving her the opportunity to settle herself but she wasn't having it! She kept turning into her side and raising her top leg and arm into the air then getting frustrated! Weirdo!

I'm not stressing it though. I know now that she can self settle and it will happen more often in time!

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Aimee... He seems completely fine this morning... Little monkey!!!! I hope you have a great night x

Edit- does anyone think I should shorten his naps or should I just let him sleep as long as he wants? The naps didn't seem overly long to me, but much longer than he usually takes.