Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[seaweed eater]

Well we have started sleep training

I didn't mean to, but I got myself trapped. I tried to nurse to sleep but LO did his new screaming at the boob thing. I guess I could have had DH try to put him down, but having me sit by his bed has been working better lately, so I did that. And then once I did that, I realized that, if there was any chance we were going to sleep train on Friday, I couldn't pick him up or I'd be making things much harder. Soooo...I was stuck. And here we are.

The good news is it's behind us I hope it goes better this time. It was a million times better than night 1 last time so hopefully this method will work better. Part of me deep down just doesn't believe anything will work. But we're going to try it for a week.

Going to still nurse at night and then really make sure I'm waking him up before I put him back to bed so he can resettle himself. I know you're not supposed to feed during the night according to the Sleep Lady's version, but I'm just not comfortable cutting him off when he's been having 3+ feeds during the night.

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy I went cold turkey on 2 naps and just pushed through the tired signs. I'd start on a weekend but it only took Cully a few days to get used to the longer waketimes. We do 2.5-2.75 / 3-3.25 / 3.75-4.

I rock C to sleep too! I actually managed I stop the amount of rocking needed but this last few days have reverted to rocking again as sleep has gone to pot, whether teething or milestones or something else!! I plan on getting back on track once he gets whatever is in his system at the moment out!!

SE, I just googled WW37 and I think it could explain Culver's weird behaviour!! C won't nurse to sleep either and every night waking is such a battle. None of the usual tricks work. He pushes me away but as soon as I put him down he cries! He was 2 weeks overdue so hits the wonder weeks a little early. Frustrated and mad are the exact words I would use to describe him.

I personally am going to give him a week to get back to normal. His sleep has been so weird this last few nights - I do hope it's a phase and we don't need to wait until they are walking!! If this is his new normal I am so lost about what to do ... Lol. I'm glad you've found a new way to soothe munchkin! That's great and yay for feeling positive!

Good luck if you decide to do gradual withdrawal! It certainly sounds like you will have success with it! With all the factors you've listed I think you're right, it is a good time and he is hopefully is a place where he will be responsive to the training. I quite like the idea if the gradual withdrawal and have been doing it in my own way (reducing rocking, trying to soothe with a tummy rub etc.)

X

 

[stephie_corin]

Ah SE we cross posted! So what did you do? Was it CC or did you try a gradual withdrawal type method? How long did he take to fall asleep? Good luck!!! X

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, I think giving it a week is certainly a good idea. I think it all started about a month ago for us, so around C's age (and as you know Munchkin was a little overdue too), but there was a lot going on then between getting his tooth and stopping sleep training, so it's hard to pinpoint. I hope it ends more quickly for you.

Cross posted again we're doing gradual withdrawal, so tonight I sat next to his bed. I shhhed and occasionally sang to him a bit and said "Time to sleep" in a quiet voice. I did pat him once (Sleep Lady says you can ) but it made things worse so I probably won't do it again. We were doing really well until he rolled onto his tummy and pushed up and started crawling I had to turn him over since he can't do it himself, but he was really really mad. But he calmed down in a reasonable amount of time. I don't know how long, but not that long, and most importantly NO PUKE.

 

[stephie_corin]

SE I'm so happy for you!! Please keep us updated on your progress! I would be totally up for trying something like this. Good luck the next few nights! And yay for no puking!! xxxx

 

[NotNic]

Amy - for physical and developmental things I think it's right to do adjusted age, particularly with a baby born before 37 weeks. The Wonder Weeks book tells you to adjust on all their milestones too. Of course some babies are naturally a bit earlier or slower, regardless of when they did arrive as temperament plays a big part too. Finlay was one week early, so for WW he should be 1 week behind but he normally hits them at least 10 days ahead of schedule. I guess it's his temperament to be early (as the months of 5.30am wake ups told me!) and physically his growth spurts were all happening about two weeks early too. Our HV spotted that by looking at his red book. His peaks were always ahead of the 'average' baby which meant he always sounded huge on the weight percentiles, when actually he'd just grown a lot earlier than expected.

I do agree Amy that it sounds like your lo should be increasing wake times. It may even be that the cat napping is impacting on night sleep. If she's used to spending the weekend napping in short bursts, why would she sleep for longer periods at night? These bursts are normal patterns for your lo, which means she's not getting the restorative sleep (where they process what they've learnt and do their growing) at night as she's not tired enough, but come morning she's too tired to be awake and happy for reasonable periods of time. Also if you get into the routine of catch up sleep, its more likely you will motor through with less sleep. Normally I would say a gradual approach is best but in your case a sharp jolt to your routine might be what you need to 'reset' her. Try doing a consistent morning wake up time and stretching that first wake up time by 15-30mins. Don't worry about the others for now. A longer gap between night time sleep and naps helps to differentiate the two. Also give them big clues that bedtime is night time not napping, with a routine and a wind down that suits your lo. I make a massive song and dance about greeting F of a morning, so when he wakes at night and I'm boring (no eye contact, talking etc.) he gets the hint that he needs to go back to sleep.

AFM - I may have worked the BNB curse to my advantage. After a week of lie ins I woke today at 5.45am to hear him playing with the soft cubes and chattering to himself. Last night he did need a cuddle and nurofen but after that slept for a 5.5hr stretch. It's so nice to hear him wake up content and calm. Makes a change to crying loudly for us or manically jumping up and down shouting at the cat!!

 

[VikkiD]

Lo went bed before 7 again and sttn last night was up at 5:30 I will take the early mornings anyway over the night wakings. Hubby still thinks its too early for him to wake though we tried his later bedtime though an that was a disaster.

 

[stephie_corin]

Vikki that's so great! I agree, take STTN over early wakings!

NotNic, great advice as usual! And I'm glad your LO is doing well!!

 

[seaweed eater]

Quick update:

LO asleep 8:45.
Awake 3:35. Nursed for a few minutes, came off the boob himself (awake).
Cried for 3 seconds as I put him in his crib, then rolled over and babbled for a minute. Fell asleep after about 5 minutes of moving around quietly.
Called out a few minutes after I left his room (I waited 10 minutes after he seemed asleep). I decided to give him a minute before going in, and he went back to sleep. Same thing about 15 minutes later.
Then awake 6:45.

Who is this baby??

I on the other hand barely slept at all too much suspense!

 

[stephie_corin]

That is amazing SE!!!! Wow!! You are now the official baby sleep guru. I'm flying you to Dubai as a sleep consultant.

I hope you get some sleep yourself tonight xxx

 

[Noelle610]

Yay seaweed!!!

 

[AmyS]

Ok, so I hear what you are all saying about increasing wake time, and I have a couple of questions - If I use Stephie's schedule of 2.5-2.75/3-3.25/3.75-4 and the first nap is only 30 minutes, then do I still follow the schedule? I don't think she'd be able to make it 3 more hours on a 30 minute nap. Or what if she cries on and off for an hour her first nap (she does this at daycare they tell me).

Also, as I've said, I've been holding her for all of her naps at home...how do I transition out of doing this while lengthening her wake times while not screwing everything up? I'd like her to start napping in her crib.

Last night went surprisingly well!!!! I can't believe it!!!! I fed her at 7pm, but didn't put her in her crib until 8pm. Then, DH came home at 8:15, and the barking dogs woke her up. I put my hand on her back to soothe her, and it was working until daddy came in the room...and daddy is FUN, so all she wanted to do was play. So I picked her up then and rocked her, she was back down in 2 minutes. Then, she slept until....drumroll, please....3am!!!! And then I had a hard time getting her back down since it is that crappy light sleep time, so I ended up rocking her in the chair from 4:30 - 6am. But, I call this progress!!!

Stephie - When you say during your son's night wakes he pushes away from you but cries if you put him down, my Chloe does the same thing to me sometimes! It's like she's angry with me for trying to soothe her, but she gets mad if I stop trying too. When she does this, I have the most success with bouncing her like I used to do when she was a newborn.

Seaweed - Sounds like you had a really good night trying out the Sleep Lady! As I read your post, you are feeding to sleep, but waking him up before you set him down? How are you waking him up, can I ask? That might be something I will try, since Chloe always falls asleep on the bottle.

 

[Noelle610]

Ok, so I hear what you are all saying about increasing wake time, and I have a couple of questions - If I use Stephie's schedule of 2.5-2.75/3-3.25/3.75-4 and the first nap is only 30 minutes, then do I still follow the schedule? I don't think she'd be able to make it 3 more hours on a 30 minute nap. Or what if she cries on and off for an hour her first nap (she does this at daycare they tell me).

Also, as I've said, I've been holding her for all of her naps at home...how do I transition out of doing this while lengthening her wake times while not screwing everything up? I'd like her to start napping in her crib.

Last night went surprisingly well!!!! I can't believe it!!!! I fed her at 7pm, but didn't put her in her crib until 8pm. Then, DH came home at 8:15, and the barking dogs woke her up. I put my hand on her back to soothe her, and it was working until daddy came in the room...and daddy is FUN, so all she wanted to do was play. So I picked her up then and rocked her, she was back down in 2 minutes. Then, she slept until....drumroll, please....3am!!!! And then I had a hard time getting her back down since it is that crappy light sleep time, so I ended up rocking her in the chair from 4:30 - 6am. But, I call this progress!!!

Hi Amy! That sounds like such a wonderful night. I'm happy to hear about your progress! Do you play LOUD white noise? That might help with some of the early evening disruptions. You can use a white noise machine, an app on your phone or even a loud box fan.

If you use Stephanie's wake times and get a short nap, you can do two things. You can shorten wake times slightly for the next nap or you can just continue with the suggested wake times an do an early bedtime if needed. I'm a fan of the second option, because it does sometimes take time for naps to lengthen when you stretch wake times. If you continue shortening them because of short naps, you may never get where you want to be. I always suggest sunlight for keeping your baby up when they want to sleep - it supresses the production of melatonin and will biologically keep them "awake". Sometimes you have to deal with a bit of fussiness when you're trying to stretch a wake time and yield longer naps. I'd give it a week before believe it's not working or she's not ready.

I would get nights in order before you move to not holding her for naps. Preserve daytime sleep at all costs until nights are "good", which I would define as two consistant weeks of STTN or 1-2 night wakings with a mininum of a 6 hour stretch overnight.

Hope that helps!

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, Noelle has suggested exactly what we do. I'm strict on awake times (if he goes longer I'm not worried too much but I don't let him sleep before the minimum awake time. He naturally wakes up 545-6.15 now but I set an alarm for 615 just in case. So our bedtime can vary by as much as an hour if naps are long (rare). I'm certain you will get to the longer awake times really quickly, even with cat naps. We had a few days of fussiness but distraction (outside like Noelle says, a short outing etc.,) really helps to deal with fussiness.

Thanks for the tip on getting him back to sleep - I'll try that tonight for sure

Xx

Edit - congrats on the amazing progress!! I hope it continues!!

 

[AmyS]

Noelle - That helps, thanks. I was thinking that it might not work to try putting her in the crib yet when nights are still such a mess. Hopefully we are on our way out of the mess!

I do have a white noise machine in her room, but tonight I'll try it on the higher setting. Maybe it'll help for that early morning crappy sleep. And I swear that I read Ferber says the last 2 hours of baby's sleep are the deepest???? I must have been dreaming that.

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh I should say we started with a last wake time of around 3.5 - he gradually stretched this out himself. So if she's tired before 3.75 you might want to put her down a tiny bit earlier x

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

Clara's sleep is back to being awful again after about a week of good nights (only 2 or 3 wakings). Last night she was up every hour or sometimes more often. She has just got her two top front teeth and still seems to be teething. So maybe I just need to wait it out for a week and see if she settles down again? But honestly it is just one thing after another with Clara, she seems to be constantly either unwell or teething. She is also back to wanting to be fed to sleep again although she does wake up slightly when I transfer her into the cot and settles back to sleep herself.

I don't really know what to do. I am due back in work next month (although I'm hoping to take a bit of extra unpaid leave) - as things stand there is no way that I would be able to function in work on so little sleep. I feel like I need to do something but I'm just lost about what is the best thing to do. I wouldn't mind doing sleep training involving crying if I was certain that it would work but she didn't really properly respond last time and there was an awful lot of crying - and I'm just not sure that I can put either of us through that again. She just slips back into bad sleep patterns so easily with any illness/teething/etc. so that even if sleep training worked, I worry that she would just relapse back again with the next tooth or cold. I am also wondering about going back to co-sleeping. We have practical difficulties in that all of the bedrooms are small and the layout is not perfect. Our bedroom is not ideal because it's not possible to put the bed against a wall due to the layout of wardrobes/windows/etc. and also OH would have to sleep elsewhere as the bed is not big enough for three of us. Clara is currently in the box room. There is a futon in there which I sleep on when she's very unsettled but the room isn't big enough to open the futon out when the cot is in there so it's not suitable for co-sleeping. I was actually considering moving the futon into my 3 year old's room and sleeping in there with Clara. Am I crazy for thinking about this? I would probably keep putting her in the cot for naps and bedtimes but then bring her in to sleep with me on the futon when she wakes after I've gone to bed. This is the only option that I can really think of for safe co-sleeping. I know my 3 year old would absolutely love the idea (actually he suggested it!) and actually that is holding me back a bit because it might not work out and then he'd be so disappointed.

Open to any suggestions!!! I feel so lost and don't know what direction to go with her sleep now. So should I:
1. Do nothing and just wait it out and see if her sleep settles down again (as it was actually getting better up until we went away last weekend)
2. Do some sleep training (would need to psych myself up)
3. Co-sleeping (but where?)
Don't know what to do.

 

[stephie_corin]

I would get nights in order before you move to not holding her for naps. Preserve daytime sleep at all costs until nights are "good", which I would define as two consistant weeks of STTN or 1-2 night wakings with a mininum of a 6 hour stretch overnight.

Hope that helps!

This is so interesting Noelle. I've been debating letting C go back to his cat naps and stoping holding him or helping him back to sleep when he wakes early but I think I'll persevere now. Thanks for this.

 

[Noelle610]

Noelle - That helps, thanks. I was thinking that it might not work to try putting her in the crib yet when nights are still such a mess. Hopefully we are on our way out of the mess!

I do have a white noise machine in her room, but tonight I'll try it on the higher setting. Maybe it'll help for that early morning crappy sleep. And I swear that I read Ferber says the last 2 hours of baby's sleep are the deepest???? I must have been dreaming that.

Definitely on the highest setting!

Babies are in their lightest sleep cycle between 4am and 6am. If they don't get up at that time, they'll sometimes drift back into a deep sleep after 6am. It's more clock-related since it's biological.

 

[Noelle610]

I would get nights in order before you move to not holding her for naps. Preserve daytime sleep at all costs until nights are "good", which I would define as two consistant weeks of STTN or 1-2 night wakings with a mininum of a 6 hour stretch overnight.

Hope that helps!

This is so interesting Noelle. I've been debating letting C go back to his cat naps and stoping holding him or helping him back to sleep when he wakes early but I think I'll persevere now. Thanks for this.

Glad that helps