Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[mellyboo]

Thanks seaweed and stephie I just got her down to bed she went down right away hoping for a good nights rest we did so much today I'm tired!

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy! Good luck, I'm dying to know how it goes. I hope the first night wasn't too tough.

SE, that sounds like a good approach to night nursing. You're really making such good progress!

Rachel, I'm so glad you had a good night!!

At the prompting of a friend I started my sleep log aka NCSS. It's slightly depressing. I'm not sure I want to share it as it feel like such a massive parenting fail. I'm not sure how we got into this mess. Last week things were looking really good but it's all gone horrible again. I do hope it's just teething but there are no signs of any teeth!!

Edit - happy birthday Rachel!!!

X

 

[seaweed eater]

You are going to get through this, Stephie. In the not too distant future you won't even remember what it was like to sleep so little. And you will be the same caring, conscientious parent you are right now.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks SE, I'm questioning everything right now. His sleep is so bad it has to be detrimental to his health. I just feel paralysed. I tried lying on the bed with him around 4am and just rubbing his tummy and he got hysterical until I picked him up. Is this even a legitimate technique? Should I start at bed time or treat all wakings the same? I honestly don't know what to do.

 

[seaweed eater]

IMO anything is a legitimate technique as long as you give them a chance to get used to it. If you can do it for all NWs then that would probably be better, though more tiring for you. But maybe rocking him until he's drowsy and then having him fall asleep with your new technique would be a good middle ground if you are worried about going cold turkey? Maybe that's what you had in mind already.

It sounds like he is a healthy and happy guy during the day. It may not be optimal but it can't be affecting his health that much. You are doing the best you can, and this won't last forever.

 

[stephie_corin]

Edit - I've actually decided to give it a few more weeks before I do any training! I'm concerned he is teething or its some other issue and I don't want him to cry in pain. Thanks SE for the advice xxx

 

[rmsh1]

I spoke with a nurse yesterday about Emma's sleep habits and she told me exactly what I did not want to hear - I need to try to let Emma cry a little rather than feed her if she wakes every hour I do not know if I am strong enough to do this. She only woke three times last night, after getting her three month labs yesterday and having a very grumpy afternoon.

I am so scared to just let her cry She tends to get more worked up once she sees me, so I guess I will see how upset she gets before seeing me, and take it from there. I just don't get it, she can obviously self soothe since she is awake when I put her to bed most nights. Last night she woke at 5.20am for the last time, and I changed her nappy. She was wide awake, I put her in her cot, she grizzled for 5 minutes (not crying), then chatted to herself for half an hour before falling asleep again.

I am feeling so useless, she sleeps well during the day, and today I did not let any of her naps go longer than two hours. So she slept a total of nearly 6 hours today. That sounds like a lot, but maybe because she had her jabs yesterday she is still a bit funny.

I really don't think I can be strong enough to let her cry for any length of time

 

[freddie]

Rmsh1 – At 3 months I would let her feed whenever she wants to… My LO was feeding every 1-2 hours at that age (day and night!) He has gradually spaced this out on his own and now goes 4 hours between feeds. I honestly don’t think that a lot of the nurses/ health visitors are very knowledgeable when it comes to breasfted babies and how they work… Does she settle easily by being fed? If you feel uncomfortable or hesitant with the idea of letting her cry then don't do it I have to admit that I would not feel comfortable with it at any age but I actually think that from the point of view of people who do it, 3 months is too young?

Stephie – Don’t feel down about your sleep log, just think by doing one you have taken a step towards fixing things… His bad sleep is not a fail on your part… I honestly believe this (if it’s a fail on your part then my LO’s bad sleep is a fail on my part!) It seems to me that for some unknown reason some babies just take a lot longer to learn how to sleep for long stretches or without parental help. Unfortunately knowing this doesn’t really help when you're sleep deprived and exhausted I have a feeling your little boy is very similar with sleep to mine – the whole rocking association etc… At the moment do you basically rock him back to sleep every time he wakes? How asleep does he have to be for you to put him down?

Thanks for the birthday wishes

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks so much for the kind words Rachel. I do agree with you - I just feel sooo bad he's getting so little sleep! I have to rock him every time now and wait until he is in a deep deep sleep otherwise he wakes immediately or after a few minutes. He cries and kicks his legs until I pick him up. I actually had some luck last week phasing out the rocking and replacing it with picking him up and swaying or nursing but something has upset him this week and its back to old habits! I do hope your little man keeps sleeping well for you! X

 

[seaweed eater]

Rmsh, she is sooo young. I don't think you should feel under any pressure to let her cry if you don't want to. Especially when she's about to go through so many changes that are likely to disrupt her sleep. IMO it would make more sense to reevaluate in 2-3 months, if you can hang in there for that long. Of course, if you need something to change for the sake of your own health, then that's different, but it sounds like you would be letting her cry just because the nurse told you to, and I don't think you should do that!

Stephie, I hope you guys had a good day and that tonight is better

We had a much much better night here! Bed at 7:40, one feed at 4:45 and back to sleep around 5:15, woke up and babbled a bit at 6 and went back to sleep, up again at 7. The darn movement sensor went off at 3 and even that didn't wake him. It's so funny because naps yesterday were just horrible...10 mins in the car, 25 mins ( ), 35 mins, another 10 in the car. Trying not to read too much into that!

 

[AmyS]

Stephie - I think you should share it! I wish I had the patience to do a sleep log. I think I'll start one tonight! I agree with SE, soon we won't remember any of this. Or, if we do, it'll be to have our revenge on them as teenagers when they want to sleep all the time!

rmsh1 - I think babies can be "off" for a few days after they get their shots. I understand about it being tough to hear her cry. It's the hardest thing. I agree that at her young age, I would probably be feeding her on demand still.

Rachel - Not sure if I'm a day late with the time changes and everything, but Happy Birthday!

SE - Great night! I love hearing them babble in the middle of the night. Chloe always whispers when she does, probably because I never usually speak during the night.
_____________

Of course, my night did not go as planned. I fed her, and she fell asleep for the first time in a few nights! Ugh!! So, I put her down right away, instead of rocking her like I usually do, and she rolled to her side and fell back to sleep.
Then, I waited for the first wake up. Didn't have to wait long - maybe 30 minutes. I tried soothing her in the crib, and she wasn't having it. She started getting hysterical, so I ended up picking her up. Took forever to get her settled, and then she was unsettled the rest of the night. I tried the crib at first, but ended up putting her back in the rock 'n play about 10pm, because it was getting so frustrating.

I don't know what I'm doing! I don't know if I can even do this!

The past couple of months, I've done a lot of sleep reading, and one of the sites I've come across is AskMoxie. She says there are 2 types of babies: babies who cry to release tension (CIO/CC work well for them), and tension increasers (CIO/CC rarely works). If I apply this to Chloe, she seems to be a tension increaser. If I make any change at all in her routine, she freaks out on me, and then her entire night sucks! I'm glad I'm learning this, but now I feel like I don't have any options but to WIO.

I feel back at square one. We were doing so good getting her in her crib, then she started sleeping so poorly again and was sick, we went back to the rock 'n play. Now, she won't go more than 30 minutes at a time in the crib.

Do I start with the number one problem, which is getting her to sleep in her crib? Persistence is the only thing I can do. I can keep trying to put her down drowsy, but I'm scared of her reaction. I know at this age, they are aware of object permanence, so if I keep putting her down asleep, she will most likely keep waking up and getting angry.

Sorry, this is very long! I'm rambling! This has been on my mind all night! I have no idea how I should continue on with her. I feel like I've done everything wrong from the start, and now she is suffering because of it!

 

[Boo44]

HELP ladies!!!

Naps have gone to crap!

Jack has just learnt to stand in his cot. So every single nap time I pop him down and say goodbye then I hear shuffling and crying and he's stood up. So I have to lie him back down. Repeat over and over. Occasionally he will sleep. But the past 3 days my OH has driven him in the car to get him to sleep! Bad!!!!
This is a baby I was able to lay down awake and leave for a nap from a very young age.
He also does the same on a night but seems to only need laying down once before he goes off

I really don't know what to do about it! He will sleep up to 2hrs a morning and 1 in afternoon usually but since this phase he is having rubbish short car naps and I'm finding it really stressful!

Would love some advice xxx

 

[gaiagirl]

Rmsh1 - What terrible HV advice! She is WAYYYYYYY too young to CIO and that's sooooooo normal for that age! Ugh, I'm sorry I'm not sugar coating my feelings here but it really upsets me when nurses, docs etc even GIVE sleep advice since they are not qualified and do not have training on infant sleep psychology. I know you're just trying to figure it out and listen to advice but seriously, if it feels wrong it's wrong! And that is seriously wrong. Ok sorry for the rant, it is purely aimed at that asinine advice NOT you .

Feed your baby whenever they wake, nurse lying down in bed if you are comfortable with it. Follow your instincts!

Amy I'm sorry you're feeling stressed, it is stressful to try and make those choices! I'm a committed WIOer so my mind is set, and honestly realizing and deciding that training wasn't for me alleviated 90% of my sleep stress, regardless of how crappy some nights are. If you need support or advice on WIO or bedsharing or anything, please feel free to PM me

Ladies I've made an interesting change in our lives...after struggling with crib transfers for nap and evening for way too long now! We set up Fs room with a Montessori floor bed...basically his crib mattress on the floor. I know it sounds wacky but google it, it's pretty neat!

He was in his room until 11:30 last night! First time in a loooooong time. The evening still had its bumps but that's a separate issue!

 

[gaiagirl]

Boo! That's frustrating! I have no experience but I imagine its a phase after discovering he can? Maybe he will get over it? I hope others have advice for you!

 

[seaweed eater]

Gaia, interesting! What were your reasons behind doing that rather than putting your own mattress on the floor? Sounds like his first night with the new setup was a success, at least relatively speaking?

Boo, I'm sorry I don't have experience with that. Sounds frustrating indeed How long has it been going on? It seems like the general pattern with those gross motor things is that they just get over it sooner or later. Does he know how to get back down on his own, or is he actually stuck when he stands up?

Amy, I'm sorry you had a rough night. I'm familiar with that idea from AskMoxie. The theory makes a lot of sense, but personally I haven't found it to be very useful or consistent with my experiences. If you had to put Munchkin in one of those categories, he would clearly be a tension increaser. But that doesn't mean that he can't calm himself down on his own. For example, a pattern I've seen several times since we started gradual withdrawal is that he tries to go to sleep, cries in frustration, quiets down and tries to sleep, cries, etc until he falls asleep. Sounds like tension releasing, but I just don't think that's true -- I think he's crying because he's truly frustrated. The crying isn't helping him calm down, it's just that he is able to calm himself down in some other way.

I think if you are going to try sleep training involving crying then you have to accept that you are committed (to your chosen method, of course, which you selected because you think it's a good fit for your baby) no matter what temperament your baby has. It's really hard to get to that place, I know, especially when you have reason to suspect you're not going to have an easy time. But it just makes things hard on both of you otherwise. You're not locked in forever, of course -- after several days you can (and should!) re-evaluate if it's still not working.

Just my opinion. I know Pantley might disagree, and she has a bestselling baby sleep book and I don't. But I've experienced firsthand and heard and read about many other cases where a baby really does cry in a very intense way on the first night or two (or five!) and yet the sleep training works.

Ok, none of this rambling really answered your question! I think there are two approaches you can take if you want to work on not putting her down asleep. You can keep putting her down drowsy (or let her fall asleep and then wake her up as you put her down), but if she cries, pick her up right away and try again. Or you can be in a sleep training mindset and decide that you're going to be there for her while she works it out on her own, even if she's crying. Either one of those is perfectly fine! But I think wavering between them is just stressful for you and doesn't really help the situation any.

 

[gaiagirl]

SE, tbh we didn't want our mattress on the floor AND to make sure our whole room and bathroom were baby proofed. Much easier to contain him in his room. Plus I like the idea of him having unrestricted movement to explore and play in his room after he wakes up.

Also, this way he is actually in his room for naps and evenings which we prefer

It's very low to the ground and we have carpet and I put a folded blanket along the edges, but the initial falls until he learns perimeter are a bit freaky! He likes to go head first and he is FEARLESS. Lol.

 

[Noelle610]

Hey Boo! That's a phase. Usually short-lived. It took us about a week and it was over. Just hang in there! Does he know how to get back down?

 

[AmyS]

SE - I see your point on the AskMoxie thing. I guess I need to figure out how to keep Chloe from getting to the point of hysterical crying, because I haven't had an easy time calming her down from that. I know I could just sit by and wait for her to calm on her own, but I'm really afraid of how long that might take, or if she might end up vomiting or passing out from exhaustion. When she cries like that, it sounds like she is in distress - hubby has come running in before asking what is wrong with her.

Wavering is definitely stressful! I think I definitely need to start small. Work on getting her back in her crib full time for now. I will keep on trying to put her down drowsy at the start of the night too, if she'll have it.

Gaia - I am definitely thinking about embracing WIO. I know I go back and forth between what I think I need to do. The more I learn about Chloe, the more I know what won't work for her, and sometimes I think the best thing would be to just wait and see what happens.

I googled the Montessori floor bed - that looks cool! Do you have it in the middle of the room so that he can't get wedged between the mattress and the wall? I saw some really elaborate pics when I googled it!

 

[gaiagirl]

I've debated the wall thing...but it's up so snug, and on carpet so I can't see how he could move it away from wall to get wedged. Plus we have angelcare under it. Plus it's only for naps and evenings when we are up. I'm still a bit unsure about wall but all other ones I've seen and heard of are against the wall! Hmmmm

 

[Boo44]

Hey Boo! That's a phase. Usually short-lived. It took us about a week and it was over. Just hang in there! Does he know how to get back down?

Thanks I hope so! I can cope with a week. Think I had to lay him down 5 times at bed time. Have googled it and they all say CIO but I'm not sure I could in the knowledge the poor thing is standing there!!

I think he can probably lay himself down. He can certainly sit down from standing...