Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[seaweed eater]

Gaiagirl, yay for new skills and becoming more independent on his own, but the vomiting sounds scary! I'm sure it was nothing though. Hope he has been better today! I bet even if the quasi-SS is happening only when he's really tired, it will still eventually transfer over to bedtime and naps.

Amy, you didn't say, how are things with you? Hope all is well!

Rmsh, sounds like the sleep training is going GREAT! 4 minutes at a time of crying is pretty far from hours on end sounds like she is ready! I hope things continue to go well and that it improves her sleep.

AFM, Munchkin's routine seems to need some tweaking, but I don't feel like there's any sense in trying to fine-tune his naps right now given that he'll be taking both of them at daycare soon. One thing I do want to try, however, is a 3.5-4 hour WT before bed. We've been doing 4-4.5 and recently he's seemed plenty tired once we start the routine, so I want to see if a shorter one would work since he could still stand to have an earlier bedtime. I know 3.5 has worked well for Stephie and Polaris -- are you both still doing that?

 

[polaris]

Gaiagirl, yay for new skills and becoming more independent on his own, but the vomiting sounds scary! I'm sure it was nothing though. Hope he has been better today! I bet even if the quasi-SS is happening only when he's really tired, it will still eventually transfer over to bedtime and naps.

Amy, you didn't say, how are things with you? Hope all is well!

Rmsh, sounds like the sleep training is going GREAT! 4 minutes at a time of crying is pretty far from hours on end sounds like she is ready! I hope things continue to go well and that it improves her sleep.

AFM, Munchkin's routine seems to need some tweaking, but I don't feel like there's any sense in trying to fine-tune his naps right now given that he'll be taking both of them at daycare soon. One thing I do want to try, however, is a 3.5-4 hour WT before bed. We've been doing 4-4.5 and recently he's seemed plenty tired once we start the routine, so I want to see if a shorter one would work since he could still stand to have an earlier bedtime. I know 3.5 has worked well for Stephie and Polaris -- are you both still doing that?

Hi Seaweed, yes I'm still doing 3.5 before bed. Sometimes it doesn't work and it ends up being longer but mostly I would say it's working quite well. One thing that I've noticed since shortening her wake-times is that she is actually showing more tired signs, whereas she never really used to show reliable tired signs at all. I don't know why that would be! I still find bedtime is usually the hardest time to get her settled. She is definitely better with a long wind-down in the bedroom when I can manage that. Our routine now is usually
6.30 a.m. Wake up
9.30-10.30/11 Nap
2/2.30-4 Nap
7.30 Bedtime
So she is finally getting plenty of sleep: 3 hours of daytime sleep and 11 hours of night time sleep (mind you, still with lots of usually very brief wakings). I'm really happy with this routine at the moment and it seems to be working well for her. I'm so pleased that I went with shortening her final wake-time in accordance with Noelle's advice, as at one stage I was thinking I needed to lengthen it to 5 hours which would have been way too long!

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, Cully has hit his head on hard tiles a few times while crawling around and it's horrible. I can understand your concern when he vomited! Is F ok today? Great news on the self settling! I really like your push-pull comment too. I wonder if Cully has been so needy because of his new found mobility.

RMSH, that sounds like a really good approach. It's good your DH is getting involved too!

Amy, how are you my friend?

SE, we are still aiming for 3, 3.5, 3.5 which has been working great but this week he has been so tired its been more like 2.5, 3, 3.5 because night sleep has been so so bad.

Our day routine is usually something like this:

Up at 6-630

Nap around 9 for 1 hour

Nap around 1/1.30. I always try and make him sleep until at least 230 so he isn't going to bed at 5!

Bedtime is between 6-630 unless he takes freakishly long naps.

He always falls asleep nursing at the designated bedtime but it takes around an hour usually for him to fall into a deep enough sleep for me to put him down.

As for us, I'm more convinced than ever that he is teething. He's started drooling a lot which he hasn't done in months and trying to bite me leg or anything else he can get hold of. I gave him pain relief at 3 when he was crying in this really pained way and it helped a little.

I feel so sad for him and I'm just so so unimaginably, mind numbingly tired. I got in the car this morning with him to go on an outing and I ended up driving around the block a few times because I didn't know what to do. I know there is an end in sight, and I know many of us are going through this too... So not ranting, just have to get it out there.

 

[stephie_corin]

Haha my post says 'bite me leg' ... This is obviously my iPhone autocorrect. I am not becoming a pirate.

 

[aliss]

Girls what is the awake period at this age?

I was putting P to bed after 2-2.5 hours after waking in the morning and he's been a real... biotch... the past 2 days, does this extend to 3 hours now? He's driving me nuts

 

[stephie_corin]

Aliss, Culver is about the same age and we've been doing 3.5 as max awake time for around a month now. I think 3 is the recommended max awake time for 8 month olds. My boy needs 10 hours awake time so we go a bit longer between naps and bedtime. If your boy is ok on 9 hours total awake time you could aim for 3. We do 3, 3.5, 3.5 awake times x

 

[aliss]

Aliss, Culver is about the same age and we've been doing 3.5 as max awake time for around a month now. I think 3 is the recommended max awake time for 8 month olds. My boy needs 10 hours awake time so we go a bit longer between naps and bedtime. If your boy is ok on 9 hours total awake time you could aim for 3. We do 3, 3.5, 3.5 awake times x

Thanks! I wish I had asked earlier. My OH hasn't been around this week and I've lost my temper several times. I guess it is my own fault...

 

[Noelle610]

It's so hard when something has been working and then their needs change! They keep us guessing, don't they? I'm dreading the day Charlie drops to one nap since we're in such a good routine right now.

 

[AmyS]

rmsh - Great start to the sleep training!

Stephie - You did sound like a pirate, haha! That's exactly how I read it. Poor Cully, I'd keep the pain relief going for nights, as long as it's safe. You both need your sleep!

Aliss - My daughter is the same age, and I've wondered about that first wake time too. She always gets so tired 2 hours after, but I'm trying to push it out to 3. When I do that, we can easily cut down to 2 naps a day.
________

We've been having middle-of-the-night fun this weekend! Chloe has now decided that when she wakes up, she would like to just stay up. I finally got frustrated and annoyed at 3:30 this morning. I had her in bed with me, and she does not like to co-sleep. So, she kept trying to sit up. I ended up putting her back in her rock 'n play, and let her fuss it out until she fell asleep. It only took about 15 minutes, and she never cried. It still made me feel guilty, even though I was only a foot away from her.

I did talk to daycare this morning about her naps. They started letting her CIO for naps when she was 5 months old. Now, when they put her in her rock 'n play at daycare, she will just fuss for a few minutes and fall asleep. That sounds like progress to me. I wish she would do that at home, but I guess I've never given her the opportunity. I'm always afraid I'm going to get that hysterical, dramatic cry of hers that leads to a very bad night.

I've been going back and forth about whether or not to actually do anything about her sleep, or WIO. No matter what I decide, I have to get her into her crib, since she doesn't like to co-sleep (and we weren't comfortable doing that anyway because 2 dogs sleep with us) and she is quickly out-growing her rock 'n play. I've been trying every night to put her in her crib while sleeping, but she wakes up within 20-30 minutes and cries. I think the only way I'm going to be successful at getting her used to sleeping all night in the crib is if I put her in awake/drowsy and let her fall asleep in it.

 

[seaweed eater]

Hope things are better with 3 hours, Aliss!

Thanks Polaris and Stephie. Glad 3.5 is still working well for both of you. Will give it a try.

Polaris, sounds like things are going really well! So glad to hear it!!

Stephie, my heart goes out to you. So tough to have days like that where you are so tired you don't even know what to do with yourself. Hang in there honey

We had a bad night last night. It was unusual, his gums are very swollen, and he did have a 4-hour stretch after having ibuprofen, so I'm assuming it's teething. I fed him one extra time, after the ibuprofen -- because I didn't want to make him fall asleep with that taste in his mouth! So nursed twice and resettled without nursing twice. Just a minute or two of crying each of the non-nursing times, but he couldn't stay asleep for very long afterward. Poor Munchkin. He hasn't let me check for new teeth yet this morning, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much...

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, if you want to, you should try gentle removal Seaweed style and see how it goes. You've got nothing to lose and you can't function at work if things continue as they are. The fact she can settle during the day so easily is great!

I will keep up the pain relief, I really feel like he needs it now.

SE, our boys might be getting their top teeth at the same time! I hope it passes quickly for Munchkin. Cully is really suffering. I hope you aren't too tired today! You're such a considerate mum giving him another nursing session to get rid of the taste! X

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks Stephie. It would have been just a slightly worse than average night a few weeks ago! I just feel for LO since he seems tired and uncomfortable. He cried for a few minutes before his nap this morning, which he rarely does anymore. I don't want to give ibuprofen around the clock.

Amy, we cross posted earlier. Sorry you are having MOTN parties what have you been doing after she wakes up in her crib and cries? Do you ever try resettling her in there? And does she do it again? I wonder whether she would eventually just stay asleep in there if you kept at it, if you haven't tried that already! Not guaranteed by any means, but possible.

I really don't want to put any pressure on you to try sleep training, since you know your own baby best, but it sounds like she might adjust to it really well. Maybe there would be a few crappy nights if she got herself really worked up, but once she got the hang of it, if it succeeded, you really wouldn't be having hysterical crying on any sort of regular basis.
Also, have you ever just let her keep crying once she gets worked up? Obviously that's an awful thing to experience but I just wonder what would happen. I find it hard to predict with Munchkin...sometimes he can go for hours and sometimes he just decides to calm down within a few minutes. You may not find that hysterical crying always means really unsettled later on.

 

[AmyS]

SE - I've been picking her up lately, since I'm still in the "undecided" category. I haven't tried resettling her in her crib lately, because she isn't used to sleeping in it anymore. I've really went back to my bad parenting ways, haha!

Now that I know how well CIO went for daycare for naps, I will think again about the gradual withdrawal method. I didn't really give it a good chance that first night I tried. Her crying really terrifies me, since we've had some really bad moments when she's been really hard to settle. I do need to just let her go and see what happens, I know! If we end up watching the golf channel for a couple of hours at 2am one night, then so be it!

Hope your Munchkin gets to feeling better with those teeth! I hate it when our babies aren't feeling well!

 

[gaiagirl]

Aliss, we have been doing 2.5-3.5-3.5 roughly now that we are down to 2 naps. It's been fine, except he's needed held a lot for naps and bedtime is still rocky...but he is def OK with the wake times.

SE - sorry about your night, it's funny, I sometimes feel like checking for teeth is like waiting for a BFP. Hahahahahahhaha.

Stephie (and SE) - Hugs xxxxx our sensitive little men don't deal too well with teeth hey?! I think it just means they will be very empathetic and sensitive guys later in life, which is the best kind!

Amy - It's hard to make these decisions, I would say just do what you think is right and you can always change your plan if it isn't working xxxx.

AFM - We are ok! No further puking, other than normal spitting up. Can't wait for that to end one day. Weirdly, Fs spit up often stains! I haven't heard of this it is a bit bizarre???

We have had a busy weekend. He has now got the proper crawl technique down, and learned to sit, and pulled himself up. AND tooth #8 is reeeeeaaaallllly close.

But sleep is still a bit tricky. He napped on me on the couch a few times and that went well, he woke up so much happier than he has been when he wakes up alone.

Ordered an extendable twin for the floor bed, so once we get that and this last tooth breaks I'm really going to try and commit to keeping him in his room for naps/evenings. But for now we will go with it and do what's working.

He just seems to have a LOT going on!

 

[AmyS]

Gaia - F is really making a lot of progress! And the 8th tooth coming? Wow! Chloe is the same age almost exactly, and she has no teeth yet! I hope your bigger mattress works out well for you, I think that's such a neat idea!

 

[seaweed eater]

HA! I know what you mean about the BFP. Or going into labor!

It does seem like F has a lot going on. He's lucky to have such an empathic mama! You're doing so well, keep hanging in there

 

[polaris]

Stephie, hugs again!! So sorry that you are so exhausted at the moment. I really hate that feeling of beyond tiredness. I do think it sounds like teething. We are having a little break from teething at the moment and Clara is so much more settled, even though she still wakes up often, she resettles very quickly and I am actually beginning to feel less tired! I do hope things will settle down for you soon.

Gaia, wow it really sounds like F is making so much progress, exciting times! Clara is also always much happier when she wakes up with me there rather than waking up alone, although actually she is generally OK for naps, it is just evenings and night-times that she really wants me there. On the positive side though, one of the things that I really love and treasure about co-sleeping is waking up with her in the morning and seeing her beam from ear to ear when she sees me. It is just a beautiful feeling, like she is telling me how happy she is to be waking up beside me.

Amy - I do agree with seaweed that it is definitely worth a determined try at sleep training if you are considering it, most babies really do respond very well and quite quickly. I do think you need to make a definite plan and commit to it for at least a week in order to give yourself the best chance of success and avoid confusing both of you! As you know, I am waiting it out for the foreseeable future but I definitely believe that sleep training can work really well in many situations and I actually get quite jealous of people whose babies responded really well to sleep training such as CC. I do think you need to get her to settle herself to sleep in the crib in order for her to be able to sleep well in it during the night. Good luck with your decision making!

Seaweed - sorry Munchkin is having a rough time with teething again. Hope you have a better night tonight.

Aliss I know that feeling of it all just being too much and just losing your temper, especially when you don't have OH around to help out etc. Don't beat yourself up too much though, we are none of us perfect and we've all been there, especially when you have a difficult toddler to deal with too.

 

[aliss]

Amazingly enough the toddler has been an angel thank god.

It's 4:18pm and I just left P in front of Disney Jr and walked away. I've been trying to get him to nap since 1:30pm (and that was only 20 minutes)....... ugh. He was so good at this up until about 3 days ago.

 

[aliss]

oh ffs.... it worked!!!!!!!!!! I told my husband to keep Alex in the basement till he's up (dont' worry it's a nice basement...)

 

[AmyS]

Definitely no change of routine tonight - she is having major teething pain! Won't let me look to see if anything is popping up yet though.