Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[gaiagirl]

Aliss you are in a Wonder Week zone! Hope naps get better, they're rough for us right now unless I hold F or lie with him.

Soooo today I've literally held F for all his sleep. It's working and making life nicer in some ways, but I can't help worry that I'm creating a new habit...

I am definitely of the belief that we should listen to our babies cues and do what works BUT he was napping and doing evenings in his room so is it a bad idea to have him on the couch with me until things get a bit easier!?!?

I'm torn! I wanna just go with it but I'm a bit worried...

(Finally I get to watch tv and movies in the evening again with this plan lol)

 

[gaiagirl]

Well, scratch that. He took a one cycle nap on me and is wide awake AGAIN! Seriously he does this every evening no matter what I do!

Is it possible he is just a night owl!?!? I always read that babies need early bedtimes but he sleeps GREAT from like 9/10 pm to 7/8 am.

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, F is going through so much! No wonder his sleep is disturbed!! It's a tough decision regarding naps. I lie with Culver for all naps now. Otherwise he'd nap for 30 minutes and it would take forever to resettle him. I would prefer the freedom to get things done when he is napping but - like Polaris says, that huge beaming smile when he wakes up and sees me there is completely worth it.

In the evenings, I'm not sure what is best. C wakes 45 minutes in too but we've always rocked him or nursed him back to sleep. How many hours is he awake in the day? Could you stretch his awake times so he is more tired at night? If you let him stay up how long until he falls asleep? How does your quality of evening time compare if he sits up with you while you eat dinner rather than stays in his room (with you presumably resettling?). You guys need to do what's right for you but I'd be encouraging him to stay asleep after bedtime so you don't make a habit of him waking up at that time and expecting to play once all the developmental stuff finishes. But if it suits you guys to keep him up I can't see the harm. I'd just try and get him to take longer day naps if you can so he doesn't have a sleep deficit.

SE, I know what you mean about not wanting to give pain relief in the day. Have you tried the wet wash cloth in the freezer? You could always freeze some Cheerios!

Thank you Polaris. I'm so glad you are having a break from teething and little Clara is giving you some rest! How is Thomas going with his nap? Is he still in with daddy?

Aliss, have you thought of dropping to two naps? I could be wrong but you guys are early birds right? We are too and do sleep from 6-6. If P is taking longer naps you could easily stretch him 6-530am - ignore me if I'm wrong about you guys getting up early... Sleep deprivation and all that! Lol about the toddler in the basement!

Amy, good luck! I hope a tooth pops out! Cully is the same and won't let me near his mouth when he is teething!

I ended up giving nurofen twice last night. At 730pm because he couldn't fall asleep and at 3am. It makes me feel sooooo guilty. I never thought I'd give my child so much pain medication!!! I was reading the leaflet that comes with his paracetamol and it said daily use for several months can cause liver and kidney damage, which really frightened me. He doesn't get pain medication daily but it's been at least 2 x per week for the last month (on average).

He definitely slept better with the medication... But still no teeth through! So it's clearly not a long term solution.

 

[aliss]

Thanks Gaia and Stephie!

Ahhh wonderweeks. I found these held very true for my 1st and are hit/miss with P. I think you are dead on though!!! Thank goodness they tend to disappear after 12 months.

Stephie~ unfortunately yes OH is up at 5am sharp for work and P is in our room (we have a very small house and that is the way it has to be). He's actually sleeping right now though (6:20am here) and had a great night. He ended up waking up at 5pm, then falling asleep by 7:30pm.

He absolutely sleeps better with a 7pm bedtime instead o 6pm. The problem is that he only had 2x20 minute cat naps in the day so I had no choice but to let him snooze at 4 (on the couch while I made dinner which was quite nice as OH played w Alex in the basement and I got some PEACE AND QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!1). The "basement" has computer games, a giant Bus playhouse, and all the Disney Jr you can handle...

So our next goal is to aim for 7pm bedtime. Yes, drop the 3rd nap is important. He usually does 2 naps but



speak of the devil!!! brb.

 

[minties]

Aliss, Sophie is really close in age to P, her awake times are 1hr 45 morning, then 2 hours, 2 hours 15, 2 hours 30. But. She's a good napper, better than night sleeper. Thomz at this age was 2hrs 45+.

thinking of dropping her to 2 naps as I can't fit in 3 solid ones as well as all the awake time.

 

[gaiagirl]

Well, he slept from 10pm to 8:15am, with maybe 2 wake ups? Pretty awesome sleep for me so it's hard to really want to change that, lol. But it's not a long term solution since in 5 months he will need to be up around 6:30/7. And also I do like to have baby free evening time

I definitely HAVE been able to get him to sleep and go back to sleep, I know it is possible...but it maybe works about 25% of the time, the majority of the time he just thinks its a nap and stays up another 1.5hrs.

Wake times are about 2.5, 3.5, 3.5 and I wouldn't want to go any longer than that!?!?

That damn 8th tooth is super close so mayyyyybe it'll change!? I don't know though, I'm not giving him anything and he's sleeping fine when he WANTS to! Lol.

Stephie, I feel the same as you about meds. I try to stick to nights only and def not every night, and I try everything else first. Something that worked for me (maybe he just liked the coldness and taste but whatever) was to simmer some cloves in water and then soak a cloth in the clove tea and freeze it. That really helped one evening

I have heard good things about clove oil in some coconut oil rubbed on gums, but I'm hesitant with essential oils and babies. I don't like the homeopathic stuff either. But look into both of those, they might be a good alternative? At least the clove oil could be...I know it's amazing for adults!

 

[polaris]

Gaia, Clara went through a phase of late bedtimes at about the same age as F I think. She always woke 45 minutes after bedtime but she would have gone back to sleep easily, but then she went through a phase of not wanting to go back to sleep and I ended up having to get her up a few times while I got her brother settled and she then had a late bedtime and slept so much better. So I just went with it and got her up when she woke after 45 minutes and then had bedtime for about 9 or 9.30. She was also sleeping late in the mornings, often until 8.30 or 9. For us it was actually a pretty short phase, I would say it was only about two weeks or so. We had been on two naps and an early bedtime for ages but it was like she just went back to three naps and a late bedtime. Now she goes to bed between 7 and 7.30 and is up between 6 and 7. So I wouldn't worry too much about 5 months time, a lot can change in the meantime.

Steph, I am the same way about giving meds. I really hate doing it. I am not a big fan of taking medications myself either. The one thing that I would say is that it does depend on the baby how much pain medication is necessary. Thomas rarely had anything, I don't think I ever gave him pain meds "just" for teething, I only gave them if he was clearly unwell and usually only if he had a raised temperature. I presumed that I would be the same way for Clara but she has had a lot more medications than Thomas ever had. She just seems to suffer a lot more from teething pain and it really affects her ability to fall asleep and stay asleep. I do worry a lot about giving medications unnecessarily or just for bad sleep rather than pain. But I also don't want her to suffer unnecessarily just because of my issues with giving medication!

Amy - sorry to hear about the severe teething pain, I hate teething!

Aliss, what's your daily routine like at the moment? Two naps definitely sounds like a good plan but you might need an earlier bedtime while he adjusts?

AFM, I am working a little bit on trying to reduce Clara's dependence on nursing for falling asleep. Usually what happens is that I nurse her until she is very nearly asleep and then she rolls over onto her tummy and goes off to sleep herself. Sometimes though she can't get to sleep quickly and she will roll back and want to nurse a little bit more before going to sleep. So in that situation, I am trying to encourage her to try and settle without that extra bit of nursing, still lying beside her but just not nursing her again unless she starts getting upset. Tonight it worked really well and she went off to sleep herself. The problem is that it is quicker to just nurse her down, it takes longer for her to settle herself. Which is fine when OH is here but not really possible when he's not. Anyway I'll keep going with it, I would really like her to be able to put herself to sleep without nursing if necessary.

 

[polaris]

Wow the B&B curse really got me bad last night! I don't have a visible clock in the bedroom but it felt like she was awake every twenty minutes. I definitely think teething pain but stupidly didn't give her any pain meds because I wanted to see if she would settle down without it and then later on I was just too exhausted to actually go downstairs and get it and force her to take it (she hates it). So tired this morning!! And I can't actually see any signs of any new teeth either so nothing to actually show for it.

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh Polaris I'm so sorry!!! The night I did my sleep log was like that. It's hard to believe you will ever feel normal again after such a bad night. Maybe take the medication up with you tonight so you have it on hand just in case. I do hope tonight isn't as bad for you. Is DH around to help tonight? I hope the tooth or teeth she is working on pop out soon! I think your nursing to sleep plan is a good one. I'm sure you'll have great success once the teething ends!

Gaia, thanks so much for the clove tip! I've got some cloves in the kitchen so I will be brewing some clove tea this afternoon before bed. What a great night sleep by F! I hope it continues for you!

It seems like all our babies are teething right now?!?

 

[AmyS]

Polaris - Sorry for the bad night! Chloe hates the meds too, so I dread trying to give it to her in the middle of the night. Then I know we will be up for a long time after! Do you think it's better to go without a clock in the room? I hate looking at my cell phone at 2am and knowing I only have a few hours left to try to get some sleep.

minties - My daughter is the same age as yours, and I just recently dropped her to 2 naps. Actually, she kind of did it herself. Our nights still kind of suck, but I've noticed they have gotten better - and she doesn't cat nap as much anymore (don't know if that was a problem for you!). Our wake times now tend to be 3/3/3.5.
____________

We had a wierd night last night - Chloe ended her last nap at 2:30, so I had her sleeping by 6pm. She was very, very tired, but oddly, not cranky! Then, she decided that she was wide awake after 45 minutes. I had to cook supper, so I ended up bringing her out to the kitchen with me. I was planning on having a bad night after that. I ended up getting her back to sleep by 8:45, she slept really good until 12:30am, then I couldn't get her back down until 2am - and she remained restless the rest of the night!

Also, as long as she's not teething, I will be teaching her a new way to fall asleep: in her crib. I've been getting better at leaving her to fuss/cry a little to make sure that she doesn't always escalate to hysterics, and she doesn't! I know she can do this, and I'm pretty sure she's ready. I know I'm ready. Her little body will not stop moving at night, so she doesn't easily fall asleep on the bottle anymore. I'm not going to follow any specific method, I'm just going to follow my own instincts. As long as I am consistent with trying out our new way, she will eventually get it. And if she doesn't, I'm not opposed to revenge when she's a teenager - and then I can write my own book, which I'm sure will become a bestseller with all of the sleep deprived mommies out there!

 

[Noelle610]

Amy, I personally believe that when babies become mobile they need to learn to get comfy and fall asleep on their own. I think we often hinder their progress by trying to soothe them too much with laying them down and patting their back, when in reality if we give them an opportunity to figure it out then often will and quickly. I think of it this way. When I'm trying to fall asleep, I will sometimes toss and turn or fluff my pillow. It can be a little frustrating if I'm having trouble getting comfortable, but I'd be pretty annoyed if someone kept moving me or rubbing me!

I know not everyone will agree, but just my two cents

 

[AmyS]

Amy, I personally believe that when babies become mobile they need to learn to get comfy and fall asleep on their own. I think we often hinder their progress by trying to soothe them too much with laying them down and patting their back, when in reality if we give them an opportunity to figure it out then often will and quickly. I think of it this way. When I'm trying to fall asleep, I will sometimes toss and turn or fluff my pillow. It can be a little frustrating if I'm having trouble getting comfortable, but I'd be pretty annoyed if someone kept moving me or rubbing me!

I know not everyone will agree, but just my two cents

Agreed! I have noticed this when I'm rocking her during the night. She will push against me and spread out on the pillow I have on my lap. She doesn't really want to snuggle, and she doesn't just lay there like a baby lump anymore. Part of the problem with that rock 'n play is that she is strapped in and can't move around. So when I put her in her crib, she isn't used to all the movement, and it really messes her up.

 

[gaiagirl]

I agree it's good to give them the chance! When F is trying to get to sleep and tossing and turning I try to stay hands off and just lie quietly like a lump beside him More often he will come back for more nursing if he can't quite get to sleep though, I think he's just at the beginning of the lonnnnnnng process of learning.

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, your approach sounds great!! I like your optimism and balanced approach to Chloe's sleep. You're a great mummy and doing a wonderful job! Good luck with the crib endeavours and I do hope you have a good night tonight.

Noelle, that's really interesting! I've noticed Culver fighting me sometimes when I want to soothe him and once or twice I've put him down so I can take a breather and he has just fallen asleep a few seconds after I put him down (after what feels like hours of trying to rock him to sleep). Mostly he wants to be held though, but maybe he is slowly getting there.

Gaia... Lol at you being lump-like in the night!

 

[missk1989]

Amy can i ask what you are planning to do? Ive kind of tried cc, and disapearing chair but he gets hysterical lying there wondring why i havent picked him up so e.ventually i give hima cuddle and he falls asleep instantly and i can put im in his cot. Thing is though he sleeps great for naps in his cot but after the first 2 hours at night he is up so often smtimes i dont ev get back to sleep before he wakes again. In my bed me lying next to im is enouh for him to get to sleep(not sre if you ca class that as ss) but if i sit next to his cot he just screams for 45mins hen lets me pat him to sleep. My OH is on about sleeping in the spare room if i cat get him in hs cot and i dont want this! any ideas ladies?

 

[keese22]

Currently in the middle of the 4 month sleep regression but when we come out the other side and hoping to sort out oscars sleep.
ATM I feed him to sleep and wait until he's dead to the world before I putting him down. I'm hoping I can teach him to self soothe . His naps are a nightmare and it would be great if he would nap on his cot instead of on me/sling/pram.
How many naps should a 4-5 month old be having (not sure when this regression will end!) and any tips or things that I can be reading to try help him nap better /self soothe (I don't want to use cc/CIO)
Thanks!

 

[NotNic]

Hi everyone. Sorry I've been a little behind on things here. We are currently in a bad patch. F has chicken pox and his incisor and first molar are trying to break through too. Nursery told me he was clingy last week, and then his sleep was awful Friday onwards. He got a bad nappy rash on Saturday night (but he was staying with my mum so I didn't see it firsthand)so when I saw spots on Sunday I assumed it was marks left from that. By Monday afternoon a few strange spots appeared and then a few nasty blister ones on his legs. The chicken pox isn't causing him massive problems but the teeth are really doing him in. He is up to the max he can take of painkillers and he just cries so hard he is shaking from the pain. It's been so bad that I have just had to let him cry at bedtime otherwise he just won't sleep. During the day I may get a second nap out of him if I hold him which I'd rather not do as he's too long to sleep on me comfortably and properly. At least the teeth are almost distracting him from itching.

 

[rmsh1]

Currently in the middle of the 4 month sleep regression but when we come out the other side and hoping to sort out oscars sleep.
ATM I feed him to sleep and wait until he's dead to the world before I putting him down. I'm hoping I can teach him to self soothe . His naps are a nightmare and it would be great if he would nap on his cot instead of on me/sling/pram.
How many naps should a 4-5 month old be having (not sure when this regression will end!) and any tips or things that I can be reading to try help him nap better /self soothe (I don't want to use cc/CIO)
Thanks!

I have the pdf of the NCSS book if you want it? Just teaches you gentler methods than crying

 

[seaweed eater]

Hugs ladies...especially to all teethers and moms of teethers, and ESPECIALLY to NotNic and Finlay. That sounds just awful hope he is better soon!

Munchkin is having a challenging week as well. I think the daycare transition has been hard on him. They think he's been fussy because of his teeth, but his sleep hasn't been that much worse (although I'm sure now that I've written that it will be) so I don't think we're very close yet.

Looking forward to catching up more with you all soon

 

[gaiagirl]

Notnic! Hugs xxxxxxx that's awful! It will be over soon!!!!

SE I'm sorry it's been a rough week

Not much new here. Again a failed 8pm bedtime, he took a 30 min nap.

Good news? Got him down at 9:30 and he slept until...wait for it...3:30!!!!!!!!!!! What!?!? Amazing!

Shots today though, perfect timing just as he does a big stretch! Ugh!