Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, so sorry about your breastfeeding troubles. It does sound like it could be teething-related, but that doesn't make it any easier. Maybe switching positions would help? Like having him sit up? I also tend to switch nurse when Munchkin gets frustrated, but you are probably doing that already. I hope it is a quick phase. It's so lovely to hear your appreciation for your DH! I'm glad he has been so open-minded. I hope switching to cloth goes well for you. I bet it will! It's been great for us during the day (we used them at night too for something like 5 months, until we started running into various problems that seemed much more easily solved with disposables).
Lots of hugs to you and Cully. It's been a rough stretch for you. I hope things get much easier soon oh and happy 8 months!!

Amy, it sounds like things are going really well! Lots of progress! I hope last night went well too. Please keep us updated.

Gaia, I hope the relatively good sleep continues for you! I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting 5 months for the time change I know I used this spring's change to help Munchkin shift to a later schedule, and it did help! I agree with Polaris, I bet he will move earlier soon on his own, especially once the milestone stuff calms down a little. He must be into everything now!!

Polaris, that is a tough problem. I like Stephie's idea of letting T cuddle with you while C goes to sleep. Do you think he'd lie still enough for that? It sounds like you're not on your own very frequently, so if having T go without a nap is the best you can do, then I say do that. What about giving him a shorter nap -- would he still go to sleep earlier but maybe not be as tired? I know you said he used to be thrown off by even very brief car naps so maybe it doesn't matter how long it is?

Bizarrely, we had 10 hour STTN last night. I'm not complaining!! He did take a proper morning nap at home so will definitely keep doing that. Thank you all for your support my feelings about this transition are up and down. He's just such a happy guy usually but clearly is not liking the change. Just reminding myself that there are good reasons for it and that it's for the best, and that it took a little while to get adjusted in his old classroom too but then he thrived there. Change is just hard! (But it's much much better when everyone is sleeping!!)

 

[gaiagirl]

That's fabulous SE!!!!!

Stephie - F bites when there's a lot of teething pain too. It's really hard and makes nursing to sleep stressful for me. I keep a finger ready to unlatch immediately but he just seems to get over it as the pain subsides...hang in there!!!!!!! Xxxx

So last night DH and I really wanted to watch a movie and I decided to try bedtime on the couch with low lights and volume so I could still get to watch a movie with him while dealing with F. In the past this has been the same, sleeps 30-45 min then wide awake. But last night I was able to nurse or jiggle him back to sleep and he stayed asleep even through transfer upstairs after we watched 1.5 movies! Woohoo! He slept 8:30-8am with several wake ups and 1 crazy one hour from 2-3 where he crawled all over the bed and kept trying to lie down and go to sleep but was restless. We are at the start of a heat wave so we were all sweaty. Lol.

Anyways, I'm hoping maybe I can get him 'used to' sleeping all evening and then get him in his room in the evening. Just waiting on that twin mattress!

Thanks for the encouragement, as always xoxo

 

[seaweed eater]

That's awesome, Gaia! I think you are right that once he has a drive to sleep at that time, things will be easier. What movies did you watch?

 

[gaiagirl]

We watched Jeff who lives at home, kinda a weird comedy with Jason segel. Then we watched the Tahiti iMax surfing one gotta love Netflix!

I think his nap being 3-4:30 helped because I could do bed at 8:30, which he seemed to accept!

But knowing him, tonight will be same old antics

 

[polaris]

Hi everyone.

Thanks for the responses and suggestions for my bedtime dilemma. Seaweed, it's actually very unusual that OH would be here in the evenings for that long of a stretch, it was only because he had taken annual leave to go away. Usually he is gone for three to five evenings per week, although during the summer holidays it will only be one to three evenings as he does two evenings of teaching during school term. This week he will be gone Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings and next week is the same. During term time he is also gone Monday and Tuesday evenings.

Steph, I really love the idea of doing a joint bedtime. This is my dream that I am working towards eventually. The problem I have at the moment is that their needs are so different at the moment that it's hard to make it work. Thomas is very sensitive to over-stimulation at bedtime and won't go to sleep if you are in the room with him (he was always like this) whereas Clara is the opposite and won't let you leave. Thomas needs a light on, Clara needs it pretty dark. Clara also gets very distracted by Thomas and just wants to stay awake and play.

Thomas is actually very easy to put to bed, he goes off to sleep by himself and rarely gets out of bed once he's in bed even if he doesn't go straight to sleep. But he does need his own wind-down routine of bedtime stories and cuddles in bed. Thomas's bedtime varies a lot depending on whether he has napped. If he doesn't nap he needs to be in bed by 7 whereas if he does nap he will usually stay up until 8.30 or 9. I have tried shortening his naps but it's almost impossible to wake him before about 1.5 hours and even after he does wake he is cranky for an hour or more. It really seems to work so much better for him at the moment to have a nap and a later bedtime, he becomes very difficult to live with when he hasn't napped! Clara's bedtime has been 7 to 7.30 but I think I need to lengthen her wake-times now because it's taking her ages to settle all of a sudden. She seems tired and nurses almost to sleep but then wakes up and crawls around the bed for an hour, climbing on top of me and pulling my hair etc. before finally coming back for a final brief nursing session and off to sleep.

Having said all that, this evening actually worked really well. Thomas had a 1.5 hour nap so he was in great form. I let Clara nap longer than usual in the afternoon so she would be able to stay up a bit later (usually I would get her up by 4 p.m.). I put Thomas to bed a bit earlier than usual at 8 p.m. and then brought Clara into the other room to nurse her down as soon as he was in bed. She was asleep by 8.30 p.m. (4 hour wake-time) which is much quicker than she has settled recently. So again I'm thinking maybe it's time to extend her wake-time. Thomas was still awake when I was finished with Clara so I went in to him again and had another little cuddle and then he went off to sleep shortly after that. So at least I know that it can work!!

 

[polaris]

Stephie, sorry to hear about the biting. It does sound like it could be teething-related. Or possibly he does need a longer wake-time as you say. Clara is doing similar antics over the past few days instead of going to sleep (although not biting) and I think I am going to increase her wake-times to see if it helps. But she's also badly teething so who knows? Trying to work out the right wake-times is a bit of a guessing game with these babies isn't it??

Re biting: what I have done with both of mine when they have bitten is removed them from the breast straight away and put them down and counted to ten before picking them up or allowing them to nurse again. Could you maybe try that? I have been lucky so far though that neither of mine have been serious biters. Thomas bit me badly a couple of times but luckily it wasn't a regular occurrence and Clara hasn't properly bitten me yet although she has given a few little nips. It is definitely a phase though, the only times Thomas ever bit me was from about nine to ten months so far as I can recall.

Gaia - I can't believe you got to watch 1.5 movies! I think 0.5 of a movie is about my record of recent times. LOL.

Seaweed, great news about STTN! Definitely the right decision to let him have a proper nap at home in the morning, by the sounds of it! I think transitions are tough for most babies and some struggle a little bit more than others. Thomas always really struggled with changes to his routine - much more so than Clara who is much more adaptable than he was. Munchkin will get through it though, it sounds to me like you are handling it just exactly right by letting him make the transition a bit more gradually.

 

[NotNic]

Thank you everyone for the well wishes. We got him children's antihistamine and that and sodium bicarbonate baths has made it much better. There was one blister that needed to dry out yesterday but I think we are over the worst of it. I decided against putting cream on except for the angry two on his knee, as my dr said that it spreads the infection, and we managed to avoid a full on dot to dot body, so she must be right. Im very grateful it was only a mild case. In long trousers he looks fine. He did look like Baloo in the jungle book, scratching himself against furniture though

In afraid I have no idea about biting as we stopped bfing before his teeth arrived, but Polaris' advice sounds right. On the odd occasion Finlay bites us he is put down and told firmly that it isn't nice. I'm also working on 'the look' with mixed results. He is so mischievous in comparison to the rest of the NCT group and its getting to the stage where I can feel the judgement! It doesn't help he is one of the bigger and more mobile babies.

Polaris have you thought about audio story books for Thomas? You can play it and either nurse with Clara in the room, or if Thomas prefers ten you can leave him to listen on his own. You can borrow the book from the library or get ones he already has so he can look at the pictures.

 

[stephie_corin]

SE - wow!!! You must feel good after your broken sleep recently. I do hope you managed to rest!!? Napping at home in the morning is clearly a good option until he gets used to his room.

Gaia - glad you got to see some movies! I haven't seen either of those. I wonder what was going on at 2 am in his mind!? You're in Canada aren't you? Surely you don't get heat waves?!? What temperature is it?? Probably just over 5 degree centigrade I imagine

Polaris, maybe NotNic's suggestion of an audio book would work? I loved them at nighttime as a kid! Although it sounds like you nailed it last night! Awake times are so tricky... Things seem to change in a weekly basis!

Notnic, so glad Finlay is on the mend! I'll have to remember that about the cream if Culver gets chicken pox. I love the thought of you working on your look! Don't worry what anyone else thinks... I'd rather have a rambunctious, cheeky child who is excited about everything than any other kind!

Thanks everyone for the biting advice. I unlatched him when he bit and took a break before letting him nurse and it seems to have worked quite well. I switched sides too when he was fussy and it was great (SE is this what you mean by switch nursing?). I also extended his wake time before bed to 3.75 and he fell asleep a little easier. He seems to be really wired at the moment around bedtime. I might push him to 4 and see if that makes things better. I need to do a longer wind down but it's difficult when all he wants to do is crawl around. I end up letting him crawl all over the room in the hope it will tire him out but it seems to be having the opposite effect.

Things seem to be calming down sleep wise. He's back to 1-2 hour stretches which is great. He's still pretty hard to settle for some wakeups but I feel like the really rough patch we had last week is passing by.

 

[gaiagirl]

Haha Stephie, I'm in the most temperate place (and most beautiful) in Canada. Lol. It's supposed to be 28 tomorrow!

 

[gaiagirl]

PS the prairies get up to the 30/40s in the summer too! We don't live in igloos

 

[polaris]

Rotten bedtime this evening. My plan was to do the same as last night but it just didn't work out. Clara seemed to be totally exhausted so I had to bring her up first. She went to sleep really quickly and I couldn't believe how smoothly everything was going. However I obviously tried to sneak away too quickly because she was awake screaming five minutes later when she realized I was gone, I couldn't get up to her immediately because I was sorting Thomas out and in the few minutes that it took me to get up to her she cried so much that she vomited. Obviously had to clean her up and try to calm her down so I had to tell Thomas to go up to bed himself and I'd go in to him once I managed to get Clara settled. She actually went to sleep reasonably quickly after that - but it was 9 p.m. by the time I had them both down. I'm feeling really disheartened this evening, I feel like ten months in I shouldn't still be struggling to find an evening routine that works for the two of them. What makes it worse is that I get so stressed when I can't get Clara settled that I end up snapping at Thomas over stupid little things, which is so unfair on him and doesn't make for a pleasant evening for anybody.

 

[AmyS]

Polaris - Sorry for the bad night! I think You are doing amazing! I can't imagine that anyone would have a good routine down yet since sleep changes so much from day to day. I agree with the others that audio books might be a great idea for Thomas when you can't get to him right away.

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh Polaris, I'm so sorry! You are doing a great job. I know how hard it is to do bedtime by yourself and you are doing it x 2. You must be so exhausted. But don't beat yourself up over this. It was a one off and - while very very stressful - it's not an indication of you as a parent. These things happen!

I hope you got a really good night sleep and feel better this morning. Thomas loves you, Clara loves you and one bad night doesn't change the fact that you are the best mum in the world to them.

Amy, how are things with you my friend?

 

[Noelle610]

Hey girls, hope everyone is doing well today!

I'm trying to transition Charlie to one nap as she's showing signs that she's ready and it's really tough. It seems like two naps are too much but one isn't enough. At daycare, she often has just one nap and seems okay, but I think it's because there's more distraction/stimulation. At home, she's hit or miss depending on when she wakes up. If she gets up before 7, I try to do one nap because she takes long ones. If the first nap were to start after 9, it really throws the whole day off and there isn't room for a second. If she wakes after 7, I try for one nap around noon.

Yesterday we did a nap at noon and I had to wake her at 2pm to bring her to her babysitter's (DH and I were going to the movies). She was so furious to be woken up, but I think a 2 hour nap is pretty good? Anyway, she had a great time with her sitter but was rubbing her eyes and acting really exhausted when we picked her up at 5pm. She was out by 6:30pm, but it's 6:15am here and she's woken several times since 5:30am screaming and then going back to sleep which is classic overtired.

Any thoughts on helping the transition? The chart I always post recommends a very gradual shift, but it's just not realistic for me since I work five days a week. At daycare, all of the babies on one nap sleep at the same time - around 1pm. At home I try for an earlier single nap, but she is still struggling to stay up for that long. But I just feel like we NEED to transition. The other day I let C nap in the morning and she slept from 9:30am to 11:30am and of course wouldn't nap the rest of the day and was overtired at bedtime. Also, she doesn't do well with being woken from naps.

 

[polaris]

Thanks guys. Feeling a lot better this morning. After that horrible start Clara ended up sleeping really well last night - she didn't wake at all until after 12 which is almost a first! I do like the suggestion of audio books, I will look into that.

Noelle, I really struggled with the 2:1 nap transition with Thomas (as I am still struggling with the final nap transition!). I don't know if there is really any way around it, it is just going to be a bit unsettled for a few weeks until she gets a little bit older and properly able to get through the day with just one nap. What worked best for us was giving Thomas a very short cat-nap in the morning and then a proper nap after lunch. However it was really horrible waking him from his a.m. nap as he would be so grumpy. When Thomas first transitioned to one nap, he would often take really long naps of 3+ hours. This phase didn't last too long though, probably 2 or 3 weeks. It actually sounds like you are half-way through the transition already in that she's often doing one nap days in daycare. But it might actually help to let her have the occasional two nap day when she's at home with you to catch her up on sleep. But the problem that I had with Thomas was that if I let him have a long nap in the morning, he wouldn't settle to sleep in the afternoon even though he was exhausted. Sorry, not too many answers there!! I do empathize though. Some babies just seem to breeze through these nap transitions whereas others just need a little bit more time to transition. You will get through it though and things will settle down. It's lovely once they are firmly established on one nap.

 

[AmyS]

Hi Noelle! I bet this is a difficult transition, much worse than 3 to 2. I like Polaris' suggestion from what she did with Thomas. I hate waking a sleeping baby though!

Stephie - Glad you got some good nursing advice that seems to be helping! Is Cully attached to a lovey?? I have noticed when I've given one to Chloe during the past few days for her wakeups that she has calmed a lot quicker for me. Chloe isn't crawling yet, but I've noticed that she really wants to roll all over the place close to bed time. I let her loose in her room with the lights dim and few distractions. I don't know if it helps or not though!

NotNic - Glad your little boy is getting better! That must have been really rough to go through!

SE - Hope this week goes better for Munchkin! Change is hard, but fortunately, kids seem to take it a lot better than we do. Do you not like his new classroom? I'm dreading the change for Chloe when she turns 1, since I really do like the teachers she has in her current room.

Gaia - So jealous of you living in beautiful Canada! Do you get humidity and mosquitos up there?? I love Iowa most of the time, but during the summer it's hard to do much outdoors unless you are sprayed with deet and prepared to sweat to death.

Polaris - So glad Clara ended up having a good night. One is hard for me by myself, so I can't imagine two at bedtime. I know you'll come up with a plan though. Maybe a loose routine that you can easily change depending on who needs to go to bed first.
___________

Our past 2 nights have been great - although I've had her back in that stinkin' Rock 'N play because she has a bad cold. Lots of snot and coughing. I try to keep her elevated in the crib, but it just doesn't work as well. And I haven't been letting her cry much, because that would just create more snot!

Saturday night, we started out bad. She had me up for 2 hours between 9:30 and 11:30 because when I would try to put her down, she'd start crying. Finally, I gave her the lovey - and she instantly stopped crying, and put herself to sleep within two minutes!!! It was amazing. She woke up 3 more times, I think, but she didn't cry, and she put herself back to sleep every time.

Last night, I gave her the lovey right from the beginning, and she woke up once to eat at 1:30am, and then slept until 6am. I heard her wake up and move around a few times, but she never cried and never needed me.

Also, on Saturday - it was getting close to nap time, but she was in a really good mood and not fussy at all. She was kind of rolling around on my lap, and she fell asleep by herself without any help from me! She has never done that before. She is definitely going through some changes!

Tonight, if she seems to be doing better after daycare, I'm sure we will be back in the crib.

 

[missk1989]

Wow everyone has come on so well since i last posted but i finally managed to do cc with both naps today and will be doing in at bedtime tonight. I am so impressed! I put him down this morning and checked on him after 3 mins and then 8 mins. It was getting a bit much for me so i got in the shower to drown out the screaming and heard him falling asleep as i got out 5 mins later. He slept for just over an hour but i couldnt stop crying feeling guilty for letting him cry himself to sleep. This afternoon i put him down and checked after 3 mins then 8 and set the timer for 10 mins but couldnt hear him after 8 so turned the monitor on and he was settling himself to sleep not crying to sleep! This makes me so much more confident and he has been napping for almost 2 hours!

 

[stephie_corin]

Noelle, good luck with the nap transition! I'm a mean mummy and tend to do things cold turkey. I've obviously not done 2-1 but I think I would just make the change and not look back. Maybe start at 12 and push it back every few days until the nap settles at 1? I always think it must be confusing for their bodies to have (for example) three naps one day and two the next. Of course I have zero experience so take my advice with a grain of salt! Also, like Polaris says, they all handle transitions differently: my approach has so far worked really well for my boy but maybe not others.

Polaris, I'm glad you are feeling better and Clara had a good night. Good luck tonight! Is OH around? What's your plan of action?

Amy, it's so interesting that she sleeps in the rock and play so well! What is it about the rock and play she likes do you think? Is it just familiarity? Being on an incline? Feeling snuggly? I can't remember if you tried propping the crib mattress up slightly and then you could gradually lower it. I'm think I made that suggestion before and you had a reason for not doing it, so I apologise if so! Does she sleep in a sleeping bag? That might help replicate the snuggly feeling? I hope she feels better soon! It really sounds like she is doing so well sleep wise and settling herself. What a clever girl! We did try with a lovey but I got lazy. I need to bring it back into our routine.

Gaia, I think Canada sounds amazing and I would trade my heat wave for your heat wave any day although I admit I did think you all wore snow suits with fluffy hoods and raybans and went snowboarding every day. How was your night?

Missk, I'm glad the sleep training is going well. I'm sorry you are finding it so tough. It sounds like your LO is adapting very quickly though.

As for us, if a tooth doesn't pop out tomorrow I am going to actually pass out from shock. Or maybe I will pass out from shock if there is a tooth. This is the most prolonged teething period in history, except for maybe SE and Munchkin's second tooth! I nursed him down and he fell asleep in my arms only to wake in hysterics 20 minutes later (still in my arms). I couldn't calm him down so just gave nurofen and he is nursing again. He hasn't had any pain relief in over a week so I felt ok about giving it to him.

We had hysteria before and after first nap too, and after waking from his second nap.

On the positive side, I increased his last awake time to 4 hours and didn't let him crawl around (we read books and played quietly in one place) and then sang some songs and he went to sleep much more easily than previously.

Fingers crossed for a tooth!

 

[AmyS]

Stephie - Come on tooth!!!! Is this the first one?? Can't remember!

I think the rock 'n play is just familiar to her, and it is more snuggly. I do have a sleep sack for her, but I am always debating whether she's too hot or not at night. I always like extra blankets on, so I assumed she did too, but I really can't tell! The crib wedge is going back in tonight too. Probably won't be a good night of sleep tonight, but that's okay! I got more than enough last night.

 

[stephie_corin]

We've got two bottom ones and the top two are promisingly swollen!

Do you have a room thermometer? I use a sleeping bag and dress slightly warmer than the guidelines. There are handy little tables that tell you what to dress them in when the room is within a certain range. I think the sleeping bags are fantastic. I'd try her out in it and see if she likes it - I never have to worry about blankets in his face or that he is too cold. I was clueless until I got my room thermometer (I'm still clueless but at least there is an objective measure for me to consider!).