Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[polaris]

Hi everyone!

I feel like I've fallen a bit behind on everybody's updates, so sorry to those who I miss out.

Noelle - to me it doesn't sound like she is ready to drop a nap. She is pretty young, I would just try to keep her on two naps for the moment personally. I tried to drop Thomas to one nap at about 13 months and it didn't work out at all and he went on having two naps for another couple of months.

Stephie - you poor thing having to deal with a split lip, so scary!! This is such a dangerous age because they have all this new mobility and absolutely no sense of danger whatsoever! Clara is constantly falling and bumping herself and trying to head down the stairs head first etc. It's nerve-racking! Exciting times though when they are making such rapid progress physically and mentally!

Aimee, lovely to hear your update. It sounds like she is sleeping really well and it's brilliant that she's not suffering too much with teething (unlike my little drama queen, LOL).

Seaweed I do think it is stressful to have to leave your baby even when all is going smoothly in daycare, and I think that times of transition and change just really highlight this and can bring up some very strong emotions. I know when we had to change childminder with Thomas it was an intensely stressful period for both me and him. It does settle down again once everything settles.

Gaia Sorry you were back to bedtime battles. Can't believe you have 8 teeth already!

Welcome to the thread to the new people. I'm sorry for not commenting specifically but I will try to do so when I have more time and energy!

AFM, Clara's sleep has been pretty bad for the last few nights. I'm not sure if it's teething or just general developmental stuff or just that she is a generally rubbish sleeper! No signs of any more actual teeth but she definitely has a lot going on developmentally. She is starting using lots of gestures like waving bye bye and shaking her head for no and she is really starting to understand a lot more of what we say too. And she is so mobile, she just doesn't stop moving! She's lost all her baby fat and is just pure muscle, she is just on the go all day long, cruising around the furniture and climbing and high speed crawling and so on. She seems really grown up all of a sudden, like she is reaching a new stage, particularly with the language stuff. So I guess this is my latest excuse for why she can't stay asleep for any reasonable stretch of time!

 

[freddie]

Lol Polaris I always have a "latest excuse" for my little one's sleep too!! Last night was pretty bad - I realised that I had fallen into the habit of bringing LO into bed with me and just feeding him back to sleep more and more as it means I was getting more sleep. So last night I though I'd better try to "nip it in the bud". Well.... He had different ideas! He was most upset with me trying to get him to sleep without feeding and although he would fall asleep in my arms, he would only go into an ever so light sleep so the slightest movement would wake him and he'd start to cry. I endured 2 hours of this before giving in and feeding him. It's made me question why it is that I am trying to stop him from feeding if it settles him so easily and allows me to get more rest? It's frustrating cos everyone basically says he "shouldn't" be feeding at all overnight but I guess he's having about three night feeds atm... Is this terrible? SHould I listen to everyone or just do what's "easiest"? Am I gonna make things worse in the long run if I continue to feed him to settle at night/ let him sleep in bed with me?!? Aaaa sorry for all the questions and rambling!!

 

[gaiagirl]

Rachel I think doing what works for you is the best idea, who cares what people and books say! Are you cosleeping? If so it's really common for babies to nurse several times a night and 3 is not bad at all! It's all about what you can live with

Polaris I ALWAYS have a latest excuse, but teething has been pretty constant for months. Arg. Those sound like amazing developments! Wow!

 

[seaweed eater]

Time for a big catch up!

Polaris - I'm sorry about C's disrupted sleep, but glad your OH was around to support you I'm so impressed by everything C is doing now! Sounds like she is just blossoming at the moment! Too bad it has to affect their sleep the way it does. I hope you feel like you have a better handle on the two-kid bedtime situation. It sounds to me like you do. You already know this but things change all the time, and it will get easier soon.

lch - :wave: sorry to see you here. I think you've gotten some good advice. How are things going? I feel for you, with your studies and your work schedule you're really in a difficult position please don't feel guilty for creating the habits though. Their needs change all the time and it would just not make very much sense not to go with what works when they are tiny. It's just that some of them have an easy time adjusting to their own changing needs, and others need some more help.

Stephie - sorry about the hair pulling and rough sleep it's hard at this age when they just can't understand that something is hurting you. It does sound like C is learning so much and just loving to explore at the moment! I think babbling could affect sleep if he's excited about it. I hope his lip is better and you finally see those teeth soon, and that things get better.

Rachel - it sounds like things are going smoothly despite the extra wakings, and if you're fine with the way things are and LO is happy and alert, there's really no reason to change anything!

Noelle - I think the others are right to question whether C is really ready for one nap! You know all the signs of readiness to look for so I'm sure she'll let you know. The daycare issue is tough, but still, you are paying them, and you should be able to ask them to do what is best for your daughter! I hope you enjoyed your July 4th holiday

Amy - it sounds like things are going so well!! I'm so glad I'm glad Chloe's over her cold and hope she continues to do great in her crib! She clearly does know how to SS. Well done! And congrats on the tooth!

Kettle - I agree that it seems like not enough wake time. I don't see how LO could be overtired by bedtime when he's been asleep for nearly half the day. Much more than 3 hours during the day can start to disrupt nighttime sleep.

Aimee - Josalyn seems so happy and mellow about everything! I love it. She does seem to be growing a lot and I'm glad it hasn't affected her sleep too much. If you got through crawling and pulling up I'm guessing things will be stable at least until she starts walking! I hope so, anyway! Thanks for the update

Gaia - you just HAVE to get a break now that tooth #8 is out. You HAVE to!!!! I really have my fingers crossed for you.

Rmsh - I would embrace the thumb sucking! It's great that she has learned how to self-soothe, and this way she won't be dependent on a lovey or pacifier that could fall out of reach. I remember reading that most kids stop on their own without fuss anyway. In any case, you can't take her thumb away, so...focus on the positives! Glad you are getting some sleep

AFM - I'm not sure that it was the right decision to stop sleep training. I'm really conflicted about it. Munchkin's sleep has bounced almost right back to where it was before we started. He was up 4 times last night, and his morning nap is often short (before last week it was almost always long). He's also continued to be upset and frustrated at sleep time. I guess he would be upset no matter what, but I can't decide whether being gentler is worth the reduction in his sleep quality. He could really use that long morning nap. I know there's a good reason I made this change. I just fear that what I'm really doing is appeasing my own conscience at his expense, if that makes sense! But my conscience is all I have, so I'm going with it.

It really amazes me how perceptive he is. He's still going down awake and SS; the only thing I've changed is that he can nurse as often as he wants to now. It's been, what, two days, and clearly the message was received.

He did a little better at daycare yesterday and we had a nice day off today, so hopefully things will be better soon. Thanks to all of you for your support.

 

[freddie]

Gaia - we're kind of half cosleeping - he starts off in his cot and I sh/pat him back to sleep for early evening wakings then at about 10pm I feed him and put him back in his cot. Once I've gone to bed I bring him in with me on his next waking and then basically nurse him back to sleep from there. It may be more than 3 times that he feeds, I'm just so sleepy I don't really know lol...

Seeweed - I think that if you feel conflicted about the sleep training you were doing then it was probably the right decision to stop Is there anything that works with him to lengthen his nap again? A while back I was really focussing on LO's naps and spent a week napping with him and that got him into better habits of taking longer naps. It didn't last mind you as the next sleep bump we had it all went back to the way it was before (grrr) but now I've found a new tactic of putting him in his pram for naps and rocking it if he wakes before he's had long enough... I do it from behind so he doesn't see me and it works so much better than going into him when he was napping in his cot cos I think he just got too excited when he saw me and just wanted to get up then!

He is definitely a happy and alert baby, I think the problem is with me and and DH! We are very sleep deprived But I don't think that I have the energy to do anything other than let him feed to sleep atm. Annoyingly he has started waking earlier in the morning - he was up at 4.45am yesterday (although that might be due to my attempting/ failing not to feed him) and 5.50am this morning... We tried to get him back to sleep but he was WIDE AWAKE and totally not willing... Waking through the night plus getting up before 6am SUCKS.
On another note, I have a little query I wonder if you ladies might have some advice on...

In August we are going to a wedding. It's at 3pm and about a 45 minute drive away. We have a hotel as we will be staying overnight. I'm trying to figure out what the best plan with naps will be! At the moment LO's naps are roughly 9.30-11 and 2-3.30.

I am trying to decide whether to stick with normal nap times and travel down to hotel around midday and let LO nap there before we go to the wedding in the afternoon but cut it short (it would only be able to be about 30/40 mins then) or try to move his morning nap earlier and therefore afternoon nap earlier too... Or have normal morning nap time and try for an earlier afternoon nap... Hmmmmmmm.... I don't want him to be super tired and fussy at the wedding! What would you guys do?

 

[stephie_corin]

Gaia, poor F! Hopefully you get a break for a while now! In some ways you could look at it as a positive - you've got a lot of the teething behind you now. Big hugs to you both... And damn that BnB curse!!

RMSH, my boy has sucked his thumb on and off and it's never become a serious habit, so I wouldn't worry too much. I've actually read that thumb sucking can be better orthodontically speaking than a pacifier, but obviously breaking the habit can be harder. I'd actually see it as a good thing - she's learning to self soothe.

Polaris, Clara is a star! How amazing! I can't believe she's learnt so many new things! What a clever girl!!! It's interesting that she's on the go all the time but not sleeping better... So much for physical activity tiring them out

Rachel, I think it's fine you feed him to sleep and do what gets you the most amount of sleep. I'm sorry for the early wakings though, that's tough! As for your question, I'd get him up early so all naps are earlier - that way he can have a longer afternoon snooze and will be in good form for the wedding! Good luck!

SE, is Munchkin just waking more to feed and then going back to sleep? I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, it doesn't sound like you've gone backwards at all - he's still SS - he's just feeding more frequently (and yes, he sounds like a pretty clever boy!). Could you sleep on a mattress in his room so it's not so tough to feed him in the night, at least until this rough patch is over? It shouldn't be too hard to start up the training again whenever you guys are ready. Hugs to you.

We've been having strange nights. This last week he has fallen into a really light sleep at bedtime (usually 630ish) but I can't transfer him for at least 1.5 hours. He sleeps ok until 10, wakes for a feed, sleeps until midnight and then between midnight - 3am he's really unsettled. I was so tired last night around 2am that I thought to myself, I'll just pop him at the end of the bed to play and have a quick sleep... And I actually sat him up at the end of the bed and lay down again! Luckily he started crying and it woke me up! He then sleeps ok until 630, waking once or twice more for a feed, usually at 4 and 5.

I have no idea what is causing the middle of the night wakefulness?

Oh, and we have tweaked our routine again slightly - we are now doing 2.5, 3.5, 4.

 

[stephie_corin]

I can't believe I forgot our most exciting development... Culver has been self settling at nap time!!! It's not every day but lately, at least 50% of the time, when he wakes mid nap I can shhhhhh and gently stroke his hair and he drifts off again... This is a good sign right?!? This is the baby who has to be picked up for every night waking!

 

[stephie_corin]

Stay away curse...

 

[Noelle610]

Why do babies wake at the SAME time regardless of when they go to bed? We let Charlie take a late nap yesterday so that we could go out for 4th of July. She slept 2:30-5 and went to bed around 8:45. I thought for sure she'd sleep in. Nope! Up at 6:30 as per the usual.

 

[mellyboo]

I haven't wrote in here forever ... Anyone feel that it doesn't matter how crappy lo slept or good it's always the same thing ... I always freak that her naps were like nothing all day and she goes to bed over tired but then sleep great all night rather then a day here she has good naps has no prob going to sleep then sleeps like crap..... You can never win just wait it out augh!

 

[Noelle610]

I haven't wrote in here forever ... Anyone feel that it doesn't matter how crappy lo slept or good it's always the same thing ... I always freak that her naps were like nothing all day and she goes to bed over tired but then sleep great all night rather then a day here she has good naps has no prob going to sleep then sleeps like crap..... You can never win just wait it out augh!

Oh, I know that feeling. I finally had to let go a bit. Unfortunately it's not totally a science!

 

[AmyS]

Gaia - At least he might have a long stretch with no teething pain now! That's a lot of teeth to get at this age.

Stephie - Awesome news on the ss!!! That's great!! We did that motn unsettled bit too, I'm not sure what causes it. I'm sure by this time next week, things will have changed again!

Mellyboo - I feel that way too - If it's been an almost perfect day, I think we'll have a good night, and it'll end up being crap, but the days where she naps like crap, she might sleep the best. It makes no sense!

Polaris - That's so cute that Clara is starting to communicate and understand you! I think all of that is a legitimate excuse for poor sleep - they are too excited to sleep and need to practice, practice, practice!

SE - I think you're doing the right thing. Munchkin isn't going to forget how to ss, and maybe he really needs the extra food right now! Glad daycare is going better! I know how hard it is to hear that your LO is having a difficult time.

Rachel - For nap times and the wedding, I would probably try for a little earlier afternoon nap. I bet that with all of the activity at the wedding, he will probably be too excited to be cranky.

Noelle - She's trying to keep you on schedule! haha
_____________

As for us - I "think" I officially have a crib sleeper now!

I had been putting it off since she was sick and keeping her elevated in her rock 'n play. Wednesday night, I decided to put her in the crib since I had Thursday off. I fed her to sleep at 7:30 and put her down at 8pm, with her daddy-approved lovey. She slept until 4:15am!!!! I fed her, but she didn't fall back to sleep. She was trying to get comfortable on my lap, so I kissed her, gave her the lovey, and put her back down. She fussed for a few seconds and then put herself back to sleep until 7:15am.

Last night was similar, but she woke up at 2:30am for a bottle, and I did pat her to sleep that time.

I am very proud of her. Apparently, it is all about the lovey! Last week when I tried it without the lovey, she was up every 45 minutes to an hour.

 

[seaweed eater]

You ladies are very kind, as always, and I appreciate your support. It does seem like Munchkin is not getting as much rest, but maybe I'm projecting! And the nap -- he really could use that. Rachel, sadly nothing has ever worked to extend his naps except just before he started extending them himself. Well, nothing to do but hope things are back to normal soon. Stephie, I don't really want to sleep in his room, because he's sensitive to noise and I think I might make things worse. But his room is close to ours so it's not that much extra work.

Rachel, I'm sorry about the early mornings, my heart goes out to you as you said, those are just soul-crushing after you've been up throughout the night. It sounds like continuing to feed to sleep feels like the best option, and there's no problem with that. Regarding the wedding, here's what I'd do: try to put him down early for his first nap. If he takes a proper first nap, excellent. If he goes to sleep but takes a short nap, then you haven't lost anything compared to cutting short his afternoon nap. And if he fights the nap until 9:30, try an earlier afternoon nap, and if he fights THAT until 2 then cut it short. Is that possible or do you need to know in advance what you're doing? I know it's time consuming to deal with a baby who's fighting naps when you are trying to get ready to leave.

Stephie, I think it is GREAT news that C is self-settling!!!! Stay away, curse! I wonder whether the MOTN wakefulness is milestone-related. I hope it passes soon. I've been meaning to ask you, is BF going any better these days? Did you ever try swaddling him for feedings?

Noelle, sorry about the short night! I hope you guys have a good day today. I completely agree with you, it's crazy that they won't just sleep in when they need to!

Melly, I totally agree, sometimes it seems like it doesn't matter that much what we do just have to keep believing and keep trying, I guess, but not take ourselves too seriously!

Amy, what a FANTASTIC update!!!! I'm so glad the lovey has been so helpful. Sounds like things have just clicked for her. So glad!

 

[seaweed eater]

I just noticed how many of the babies we're currently discussing in here have C names. Charlie, Clara, Cully, Chloe...what's up with that?

 

[Noelle610]

I just noticed how many of the babies we're currently discussing in here have C names. Charlie, Clara, Cully, Chloe...what's up with that?

Do we need to put out a public service announcement on the trimester boards? Don't name your baby something that starts with C because they are destined to be a poor sleeper?

 

[Noelle610]

Noelle - She's trying to keep you on schedule! haha

LOL, so true! She is the most routined child I have ever met in my entire life.

You Noelle, sorry about the short night! I hope you guys have a good day today. I completely agree with you, it's crazy that they won't just sleep in when they need to!

It's just so nuts! I know it's a biological reality that overtired = less sleep, but why? What purpose does it serve? It's not like with a newborn who wakes for feeds frequently and/or doesn't fall into deep sleep. Both of these things have obvious purposes is nature in terms of survival.

 

[seaweed eater]

I guess cause they might be overtired from running from a lion and need the extra time from 5 to 6 AM to keep running? I don't know, the way I've understood the whole cortisol thing is that if something is keeping you up then you probably need to continue staying up in order to deal with that thing. But who knows if that's right.

 

[polaris]

LOL at all the babies with C names! I wonder what the best letter of the alphabet is for babies who sleep through the night - but I'm guessing their parents don't hang out in sleep threads!

Seaweed, I'm sorry to hear you are doubting yourself and feeling conflicted at the moment. I agree that you need to follow your instinct. I would give him a little bit of time and once he is settled again in daycare then you can reassess the situation at that point. When I went back to work Thomas started waking in the night again after having previously slept through for a couple of nights and I just went along with it and fed him because I felt that he needed the comfort and the reconnection. He didn't end up dropping the feeds by himself but it really only took one night to break the habit once I felt that we were both ready (a few months later). Also, Thomas was and is very sensitive to noise and I could never have slept in his room, I could never even go in to check on him because it would wake him every time. It's amazing how different they are, Clara sleeps so much better when I'm right there beside her.

Amy - wow, I am so amazed and impressed with the transformation in Chloe's sleep! Maybe I should try a different lovey for Clara as she doesn't seem very attached to her current one (she enjoys chatting away to it and hugging it when she wakes up in the morning but doesn't want it at all when she's going to sleep )

Noelle - I know, you would think they would just have a lie-in for once! Hope the 4th July celebrations went well.

Stephie - WOW that is amazing news that Cully is starting to self-settle! Definitely a step in the right direction. I hate when they are awake for long stretches during the night, I am just too tired to properly deal with Clara at that time and can relate to your story of just sitting him up to have a little play and going back to sleep!

Rachel - if feeding to sleep is working and getting you more sleep then I think it's OK. Well anyway, I do the same, she gets a boob stuck in her mouth at every waking because I am just too tired to try anything else! Re the wedding, I would probably aim for a good morning nap at home and then either travel down early and try to get him to nap there before the wedding or if he will sleep in the car, I would travel down at naptime and hope he slept on the way. Will your LO sleep in the car? Clara only ever sleeps for 30 minutes in the car so it's not ideal. It also depends how cranky he gets when he's tired. With Thomas he would have needed a proper nap or he wouldn't cope with the excitement of the wedding. With Clara, she would be fine after a cat-nap, just a bit wired maybe but distracted by everything that is going on.

My update - OH was in work this evening so I did bedtime on my own and it was really smooth! Thank you, sleep gods!! Stephie, interesting that you have changed wake-times, we have changed ours too. I'm actually trying her napping by the clock rather than just going by wake-times, aiming for naps at about 9/9.30 and 1.30/2 and bedtime at 7.30/8. Wake-times 2.5-3/3-3.5/4. Mind you, the weather is beautiful here so we've been out a lot during the mornings so her middle wake-time has often been longer, more like 4 hours sometimes. That is too long for her though because she is getting very tired and cranky by the end.

 

[lch28]

Just would like to update that jonathan is now asleep in his crib in his sleep sack for an hour so far

 

[bababas]

hi i need to join this thread lol. i hope i make sense im so sleep deprived today.

first of all, when we have a bad night, all i can think about is putting an end to myself, coz i am so sleepy. then i think about different ways on how to end myself to amuse me! and i dont even care that it means never waking up. i miss sleep that much. i feel so abnormal for thinking this.

MIL said to try to put him in his own bed. if i try to put him in his own bed (well i have tried every week, but why do you think he is in my bed) coz he just wont sleep in his bed in the night he wakes up again and again until i put him in my bed so my evening ME time can turn to a 3 hour wrestle time. until in the end he will be in my bed.

tonight was like this.

sleep 9.30pm (he had a late nap, i think he is dropping his 3rd soon)
feed 00.30 (hardly remember )
feed 3.30am (got a good sleep here! but felt like 1 hour )
feed 4am 5am 6am, he was grumpy like couldnt fall asleep but wanted to sleep so my 4-6 was like shit. also teething, two incisors are almost there the lower ones.

at 6 i gave him to OH and slept!
at 8 am OH and ds1 went to inlaws so i could nap with LO. napped 8-11am. with one feed in between.

his sleep has been unpredictable since month 3. but i notice it has been a bit better now. like his movements dont wake him up anymore.

if i have energy tonight i will try to put him in his bed AGAIN.