Rape Culture - What do you think?

[Noelle610]

I know that mine is probably a controversial view but I do feel that if a woman is so drunk she cant stand up and something happens to her then she is partly responsible because had she not got into such a state she wouldnt have put herself at risk or been more able to fight off her attacker.

I know its a horrible thing to happen and noone deserves it or was asking for it but I do feel that you have to take responsibility for yourself and keeping yourself safe. I know that this is a minority of cases but this is the scenario that the media always portrays so until light is shed on the more common circumstances I dont think 'rape culture' will change

When you get so drunk you can't stand up, of course you're more at risk that something will bad in general will happen to you. It's still not the victim's fault - at all. Would you blame someone if they were mugged while drunk? They're still the victim of the crime. In an ideal world, people wouldn't take advantage of those with their guard down. Of course this is reality, but still... Rape is the fault of the person who RAPES SOMEONE. Yet all of our awareness campaigns are targetted at the victim, why is that?

 

[Tiff]

I know that mine is probably a controversial view but I do feel that if a woman is so drunk she cant stand up and something happens to her then she is partly responsible because had she not got into such a state she wouldnt have put herself at risk or been more able to fight off her attacker.

I know its a horrible thing to happen and noone deserves it or was asking for it but I do feel that you have to take responsibility for yourself and keeping yourself safe. I know that this is a minority of cases but this is the scenario that the media always portrays so until light is shed on the more common circumstances I dont think 'rape culture' will change

When you get so drunk you can't stand up, of course you're more at risk that something will bad in general will happen to you. It's still not the victim's fault - at all. Would you blame someone if they were mugged while drunk? They're still the victim of the crime. In an ideal world, people wouldn't take advantage of those with their guard down. Of course this is reality, but still... Rape is the fault of the person who RAPES SOMEONE. Yet all of our awareness campaigns are targetted at the victim, why is that?

Or on the flip side, if you attacked or raped someone while drunk yourself. Does that mean you are more guilty or should be held more in the wrong since you were drunk and put yourself in that situation to do something than if you were sober?

I dunno, it personally doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Tasha]

I hate the idea that someone is partially responsible for something that they had no control over. It is not wise to get so drunk that you cant stand but it is never the fault of the victim, what ever they did or didnt do. We should all be able to get that drunk and nothing happen, we should all be able to flirt with another person and nothing happen, we should all be able to wear what ever we chose and nothing happen because no one has the right to touch you because of a particular behaviour/outfit.

 

[Tasha]

Also it is not as simple as being able to fight off your attacker, it is power thing but not one of the physical kind. You could be a stone cold sober body builder and still feel unable to fight off an attacker.

 

[xemmax]

I think this is relevant:

 

[Tasha]

I love that Emma. So true. And if I could share it on my fb, I would x

 

[Stelly]

I admittedly didnt read through the entire thread... but I agree that there is a strong "rape culture".

I plan on teaching my son to only accept an enthusiastic yes when getting involved with a woman. Meaning- I want him grow up knowing it is only ok when his significant other is not under the influence, but clear minded and WANTING to. No "maybe= yes" and no pressuring on his part.

If I have a daughter- I plan on teaching her self-defense. I dont want her to walk in fear if she is out at night or in an abandoned parking lot. I want her to have the confidence in her own abilities that if she was attacked, she knows how to stay calm and how to fight back. I had been taking MMA classes, and it gives a huge attitude change when you get to the point where you know you could handle yourself. I do firmly believe that women who's body behavior is confident does deter rapists.

 

[NoodleSnack]

I know that mine is probably a controversial view but I do feel that if a woman is so drunk she cant stand up and something happens to her then she is partly responsible because had she not got into such a state she wouldnt have put herself at risk or been more able to fight off her attacker.

I know its a horrible thing to happen and noone deserves it or was asking for it but I do feel that you have to take responsibility for yourself and keeping yourself safe. I know that this is a minority of cases but this is the scenario that the media always portrays so until light is shed on the more common circumstances I dont think 'rape culture' will change

The more common instances is that rape occur in the victim's or the perpetrator's place, with the perpetrator being someone the victim knows. One shouldn't pass out drunk in public for many reasons regarding safety, being robbed, hurt etc including being raped, but we rarely associates passing out drunk with being robbed etc as we do with rape and passes judgement. There an idea that women who got raped must have done something wrong: passes out drunk, wear the wrong dress, at the wrong place, see the wrong guy, trust the wrong person, something...and it's always in hindsight that these "mistakes" come to light. If she wasn't raped, then she would have been just a young women on a night out with her friends, but if she was, she wasn't careful enough and is responsible for putting herself in that situation.

 

[socitycourty]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. I had a discussion/debate about this recently with a group of males friends of mine who are all very intelligent, educated, kind men. Prior to the discussion, I was of the mind that rape culture is very real, that women are victims and that rape is bad - always. I have since changed my mind. Here's why.

I want to talk about South Africa here. South Africa has some of the most shocking rape statistics in the world. The SA culture is very pro-rape, so much so that a large majority of both men and women have admitted to raping someone else. I'm talking almost half of all people asked here. There is a trend among young males between the ages of 13-18 that rape, and specifically gang rape, is a right of passage and a form of male bonding. But then roughly 15-35% of young males also admitted to having been raped by a female. Statistics for this country show that basically, men and women are all raping each other, and that if you live there you can expect to be raped at some point as the odds are stacked against you.

I do not agree that the problem is merely slut-shaming, women wearing little clothes and being portrayed negatively by social media, because the problem isn't just for women. Men get raped arguably, just as much, or at least very close. Rapes by females of males is severely under reported - as is rapes of males by males. An obvious reason being that it is seen as more socially acceptable for women to take advantage of men than vice versa, it is shameful for them because rape is often seen as a power play and for a man to be dominated or raped by a woman is not commonly seen or heard of. But it happens. What's more is that men are now expected to be responsible for women. Women can get drunk, act irresponsibly and objectify men. But if men are to do the same, they are called pervs, misogynists and rapists. Men are wrongly convicted of rape on a daily basis. If a woman gets drunk at a bar and flirts with a guy, he either flirts back or puts a brick wall between them. If he flirts and they get along and sleep together, she can turn around the next day and say that she was raped. False rape accusations also happen -ALL- the time. I'm not even joking here. And women wonder why men are so distrustful of women now.

Why is it the man's responsibility if a woman gets drunk? Why should women not be accountable for their actions? Why are men the only ones targeted by anti-rape culture movements while women escape unscathed? How often do you hear it reported that a man was raped or taken advantage of by a woman, and it either gets brushed under the surface, doesn't reach mainstream media attention or the guy is called a 'pussy' because he was overpowered by a woman. I agree that rape is bad, and I'm not saying it isn't. What I am saying is though, is that there seems to be a lot of vitriol aimed at men because they are the irresponsible ones who need to be taught, but women are perfect, innocent and never guilty of anything at all. Ever. They never rape. They never take advantage of. They never falsely accuse men of raping them. Why the bias?

Wow, just wow. I wonder if you'll change your position on this if you ever have a daughter.

 

[socitycourty]

I forgot about this thread and haven't checked it in a long time, so my apologies if I am responding to old arguments that have been buried under the rug.

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

https://www.returnofkings.com/2467/a-feminist-i-had-sex-with-spread-a-fabricated-rape-chart

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

I've seen you use this argument before: "I'm from South Africa where things are worse, therefore you can't complain".

Your source is a blog, written by a person whose publications include:

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Jessica, I feel really sorry for you, honestly.

 

[socitycourty]

The problem of your argument is that it continues to see women as objects, just as before we were "property" to be given to our husband by our father....our daughters were seen as income for dowry....women have been constantly subjugated by men since the beginning of time. Let's not go backwards, seriously

 

[Button#]

I know that mine is probably a controversial view but I do feel that if a woman is so drunk she cant stand up and something happens to her then she is partly responsible because had she not got into such a state she wouldnt have put herself at risk or been more able to fight off her attacker.

I know its a horrible thing to happen and noone deserves it or was asking for it but I do feel that you have to take responsibility for yourself and keeping yourself safe. I know that this is a minority of cases but this is the scenario that the media always portrays so until light is shed on the more common circumstances I dont think 'rape culture' will change

Unfortunately yours is not a controversial opinion - that's the problem. A lot of people when they hear of a young woman being raped think I feel sorry for her BUT she shouldn't have got that drunk/worn that short skirt/walked home in the dark.

The problem is women are set up for failure as we live in culture which promotes binge drinking to excess in both sexes and then blames women for being drunk.

 

[Noelle610]

I know that mine is probably a controversial view but I do feel that if a woman is so drunk she cant stand up and something happens to her then she is partly responsible because had she not got into such a state she wouldnt have put herself at risk or been more able to fight off her attacker.

I know its a horrible thing to happen and noone deserves it or was asking for it but I do feel that you have to take responsibility for yourself and keeping yourself safe. I know that this is a minority of cases but this is the scenario that the media always portrays so until light is shed on the more common circumstances I dont think 'rape culture' will change

Unfortunately yours is not a controversial opinion - that's the problem. A lot of people when they hear of a young woman being raped think I feel sorry for her BUT she shouldn't have got that drunk/worn that short skirt/walked home in the dark.

The problem is women are set up for failure as we live in culture which promotes binge drinking to excess in both sexes and then blames women for being drunk.

Exactly this. It's like, "Get wasted, you're young! Oh, but not too wasted... You'll get raped!".

 

[socitycourty]

I also was thinking about the mechanical aspect of rape men vs. women. Women don't need to be "erect" in order to be raped. if a man is not intersted in having sex with someone, wouldn't he be flaccid? I understand if it's a prison rape (anally) that is different but how could a woman rape a man if he's not willing? sorry to be graphic but I don't even understand

 

[Sarahkka]

I also was thinking about the mechanical aspect of rape men vs. women. Women don't need to be "erect" in order to be raped. if a man is not intersted in having sex with someone, wouldn't he be flaccid? I understand if it's a prison rape (anally) that is different but how could a woman rape a man if he's not willing? sorry to be graphic but I don't even understand

1) Rape does not have to be penetration. Sexual assault is really defined by the absence of consent and there is a wide spectrum. Some interesting US definitions supplied on this page:
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/rape

2) Not all men are able to control the erection impulse. It is entirely possible for a woman to agressively stimulate a man and get him hard without him wanting to be. This is particularly true for younger men. Think of all the teenage boy puberty horror stories of the erections happening at inappropriate times. It depends on the individual and the situation, but it is absolutely possible to get a man hard and even to force him to ejaculate against his will. Which is just as violating as penetration against his will.

 

[NoodleSnack]

Yep. There was that case in Russia where a male burgler was tied up by the female house owner and raped until he managed to get out.

 

[Piper84]

It's absolutely possible and poses great problems in understanding the sexual abuse of males. Men are expected to be hypersexual and always "up for it" if a woman propositions them. Someone I know had an "affair" with one of his (female) teachers when he was 15, which was far more about an abuse of power and is still having repercussions on his personal life. Because this fits into the ideal supposed male fantasy, it's not taken very seriously and he has even been congratulated on it.

 

[Sarahkka]

It's absolutely possible and poses great problems in understanding the sexual abuse of males. Men are expected to be hypersexual and always "up for it" if a woman propositions them. Someone I know had an "affair" with one of his (female) teachers when he was 15, which was far more about an abuse of power and is still having repercussions on his personal life. Because this fits into the ideal supposed male fantasy, it's not taken very seriously and he has even been congratulated on it.

Heart-breaking.
If I ever found out that someone did this to one of my sons, I would take them apart with my bare hands.
I think this is another very ugly side to rape culture that has such a profoundly negative impact on men: the nasty myth that men are basically walking talking dicks who cannot stop themselves from any sexual activity AND the sickening victim-blaming in the form of praise - "congrats on your statutory rape - you got some!" ?!!!! Shame is the overwhelming emotion for most women who are sexually assaulted, but I can only imagine how confusing and isolating it must be for men, especially young men who are more likely to be victims.

 

[Piper84]

Amen. Although people are completely responsible for their own actions when it comes to sexual assault, I get the feeling stuff like the Steubenville case would be rarer if society didn't expect boys/men to be like dogs on heat all the time and implicitly congratulate them for being promiscuous in their youths.

In some ways it applies to women too, in my experience. I had the feeling at uni that, as a woman, you were supposed to be getting wasted and sowing your wild oats and if you weren't you were boring. Some people may want that, and that's great, but for people who don't necessarily want multiple sexual partners but who are equally under that kind of peer pressure, it's easy to get yourself into bad situations in that kind of environment.