Rape Culture - What do you think?

[NoodleSnack]

Yeah, it's a world wide problem I believe. But, I do think some countries here in Africa have higher statistics than some Western countries. Which isn't acceptable at all.

I agree with the fact that the ROOT of the problem must be uncovered and corrected. I do believe alot of it has to do with moral decline. Children have too many rights and demands these days, and aren't taught responsibility, compassion and distuingishing between right and wrong. But how to fix this?

So yes, first and foremost, people should be taught to never, ever hurt another human being in that way. But, while the problem IS what it is, I WILL teach my children how to be as safe as possible. There was a horrific case a few months ago here in South Africa, amongst one of those gang initiation cultures, where a 17-year old was violently gang raped and basically cut up alive and mutilated, and then left for dead. She didn't make it despite the doctors best efforts. Fortunately she was able to name one of her attackers. It was her ex-boyfriend. Anyway, what bothered me about this case, was that she was only 17, and hasn't been in school for 3 years! Her foster mom took her out, and she was working odd jobs here and there. The night of the attack, she was walking home from a party at 3am. What 17-year old is allowed to leave school at 14, start working and then allowed to go to a party until 3am???? I just simply cannot fathom allowing my daughter any of that. I can't help but partly put some of the blame on the foster mom's shoulders. The teenager didn't deserve that ending to an already very hard life. The foster mom really did care about the child. She raised her from age 3, and loved her like a daughter. And they lived in a very quiet, peaceful town. But still.

Rape has been a problem since time began. It's a way of taking ownership of someone else's body in the most denigrating way. There are countless biblical references to rape as a way to "humble" women. Eve herself was tempted by a "serpent" offering her "knowledge". You can intepret that how you like, but she is definitely blamed for the ills of the world, painful childbirth, etc.

A few biblical examples of rape:

"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB

"Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." 2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB

"Here is my virgin daughter and his concubine. Please let me bring them out that you may ravish them and do to them whatever you wish. But do not commit such an act of folly against this man." Judges 19:24 NAB

I don't think it's helpful to try and find the root of the problem in a recent phenomenon of a decline in morals, firstly because the root of the problem has existed for thousands of years and secondly seeing as that is also an argument used to blame rape victims, that they are somehow dressed immorally or asking for it with their unladylike behaviour.

I agree with everything you've said, but I think "rape culture" is a relatively new phenomenon. Rape obviously isn't. Many of the cases cited in this thread of young women being gang raped and classmates making light of the situation isn't something I've really seen in the past.

I don't think "rape culture" is a recent phenomena at all, it's just that we're putting a name to it because things have been improving in favour of the victims. If you're in the 50's or 60's or 70's, you will be blamed for being raped without question asked - it's a general belief that to be raped, you have to put yourself in a situation to be raped. Good moral girls don't put themselves in that situation.

 

[NoodleSnack]

For the record I don't think a 12 or 13 year old should be able to legally consent to sex at all. My 12.5 year old just introduced me to her collection of hamster erasers by name, age and sibling relationships. She is a child. She can barely make a responsible decision about what to have for breakfast.

OTOH our neighbor is raising her 11 year old granddaughter whose mother just turned 23, so you can do the math there. When I heard how young her mom was my first thought was "I hope someone went to jail for that". I have no idea how old the father is, I just know that they've tried to work out a visitation schedule with him so apparently they dont think of him as a rapist. But who knows, there is a lot about that family that I find inscrutable and whether or not it was a crime it is certainly a tragedy and indicates some less than stellar parenting.

So as far as it is outside my own experience raising a preteen girl, it does happen.

To try to circle back to the original point of this thread-- male rape victims are usually minors and are victims of sexual abuse or statutory rape. I don't think that we have a "child rape" culture although we also don't have as much of a "respect and value children" culture as I think we should. I do, however, think that male statutory rape victims are also victims of "rape culture" where young men are expected to always want sex and are viewed as weak for ever refusing if the opportunity is there. I imagine that a teenage boy feels a lot more social pressure to consent to sex with an older partner.

When I was a teen I'm pretty sure that if, for example, a younger teacher of mine initiated some sort of sexual contact I may have been flattered and excited by it but there would have been alarms going off in my head screaming "Pervert! Pervert!"
I bet a a male would feel a lot more conflicted, not because of his hormones but because of our cultural expectations.

I'm not sure that male victims are "usually" minor, we just don't know enough. When men get raped they are even less likely to report it because of the perceived reflection on their masculinity. Sexual harassment is also something men struggle with - sometime this could be initiated by women. Society seems to expect men to be sexual all the time, and "virility" is considered a positive trait so some men get mocked if they refuse a come on even though they have no interest. In some places, men complaining about sexual harassment by a woman would be cast as a joke.

 

[NoodleSnack]

Absolutely it does! At least to me that is.

And I definitely see your point about a 12 year old and an 18 year old. Where I saw the difficulties was definitely in the grey area for sure. Maybe the term "statutory coercion involving sexual acts" would be a better term?

It scares me as it seems that the age that kids are having sex gets earlier and earlier. A lot of it depends to me as well as the house in which they were raised. You might have a more liberal minded family that doesn't think sex at a young age is "bad" per se and then families who aren't for it.

I mean that more in the sense of say two 12 year olds or two 13 year olds having sex. Which is stomach turning for me if I'm honest. At the age of 12 I'm pretty sure I was still playing with dolls.

I do not think that's true, in the US they are delaying it: https://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/03/contraception-use-on-the-rise-as-more-teens-delay-sex-study/

In the UK, I think they're getting smarter as well although I don't see any study done.

If you compare with half a century ago, most places see an improvement. 12 and 13 are considered adults in some culture, but more and more, marrying them off that young is considered a bad thing.

It may just be me, but I actually see an improvement in morals and how people deal with sex over the decades. All these ugliness has always been there but because of the internet, it gets pushed up to the top, which appears to be things getting worse but actually it's a sign of things improving.

 

[NoodleSnack]

Here we have "Statutory Rape" where a man above the age of 18 is convicted of it if he has sex with a girl under the legal consent age of 16. I think those are the numbers. First and foremost I think the term "statutory rape" needs to go. It has negative connotations and while I get that it is obviously a concern that a man is trying to have sex with a minor but there are quite a few times where I've had friends do this and they were full, willing partners.

To call it "rape" just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a crime for that, because it goes in both directions (older woman trying to sleep with minor boy or girl).

I don't believe the owness should only be on a man, in response to the poster playing devil's advocate. But on women too. It doesn't matter WHAT gender you are, you do not take advantage of someone who's clearly had too much to drink. End of! There have been times where I've been out at the bar and had friends buy me shots and then all of a sudden I'm smashed. Because I let go of my sense at the time means that I should be blamed for getting raped? Hell no.

That goes both ways, and while I do think there is a higher statistic for women to be raped than men, it doesn't mean that men can't be taken advantage of as well. But as I said before, it is no one's place to take advantage of another person - regardless of gender.

It has a negative connotation because it is meant to. Children can't consent, when one is having sex with a person who can't consent, that is rape. It doesn't matter if they seem to be "full willing partner" (instead of thinking your friend, think of an 11 year old, you will see that "willingness" is a poor criteria), the fact is that most teenagers are not good at making decisions and can be easily manipulated by adults, so the onus is on the adult (although the cut off point for "adulthood" is somewhat arbitrary) to make the decision to stay away from them.

 

[lhancock90]

Here we have "Statutory Rape" where a man above the age of 18 is convicted of it if he has sex with a girl under the legal consent age of 16. I think those are the numbers. First and foremost I think the term "statutory rape" needs to go. It has negative connotations and while I get that it is obviously a concern that a man is trying to have sex with a minor but there are quite a few times where I've had friends do this and they were full, willing partners.

To call it "rape" just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a crime for that, because it goes in both directions (older woman trying to sleep with minor boy or girl).

I don't believe the owness should only be on a man, in response to the poster playing devil's advocate. But on women too. It doesn't matter WHAT gender you are, you do not take advantage of someone who's clearly had too much to drink. End of! There have been times where I've been out at the bar and had friends buy me shots and then all of a sudden I'm smashed. Because I let go of my sense at the time means that I should be blamed for getting raped? Hell no.

That goes both ways, and while I do think there is a higher statistic for women to be raped than men, it doesn't mean that men can't be taken advantage of as well. But as I said before, it is no one's place to take advantage of another person - regardless of gender.

It has a negative connotation because it is meant to. Children can't consent, when one is having sex with a person who can't consent, that is rape. It doesn't matter if they seem to be "full willing partner" (instead of thinking your friend, think of an 11 year old, you will see that "willingness" is a poor criteria), the fact is that most teenagers are not good at making decisions and can be easily manipulated by adults, so the onus is on the adult (although the cut off point for "adulthood" is somewhat arbitrary) to make the decision to stay away from them.

Except "statutory rape" would include a 17 year old girl sleeping with her 18 year old boyfriend of years in some places. To me, that is wrong.

 

[NoodleSnack]

Here we have "Statutory Rape" where a man above the age of 18 is convicted of it if he has sex with a girl under the legal consent age of 16. I think those are the numbers. First and foremost I think the term "statutory rape" needs to go. It has negative connotations and while I get that it is obviously a concern that a man is trying to have sex with a minor but there are quite a few times where I've had friends do this and they were full, willing partners.

To call it "rape" just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a crime for that, because it goes in both directions (older woman trying to sleep with minor boy or girl).

I don't believe the owness should only be on a man, in response to the poster playing devil's advocate. But on women too. It doesn't matter WHAT gender you are, you do not take advantage of someone who's clearly had too much to drink. End of! There have been times where I've been out at the bar and had friends buy me shots and then all of a sudden I'm smashed. Because I let go of my sense at the time means that I should be blamed for getting raped? Hell no.

That goes both ways, and while I do think there is a higher statistic for women to be raped than men, it doesn't mean that men can't be taken advantage of as well. But as I said before, it is no one's place to take advantage of another person - regardless of gender.

It has a negative connotation because it is meant to. Children can't consent, when one is having sex with a person who can't consent, that is rape. It doesn't matter if they seem to be "full willing partner" (instead of thinking your friend, think of an 11 year old, you will see that "willingness" is a poor criteria), the fact is that most teenagers are not good at making decisions and can be easily manipulated by adults, so the onus is on the adult (although the cut off point for "adulthood" is somewhat arbitrary) to make the decision to stay away from them.

Except "statutory rape" would include a 17 year old girl sleeping with her 18 year old boyfriend of years in some places. To me, that is wrong.

So at what point do we cut off the age for the minor and the adult? Can a 18 years old have sex with 12/13/14 years old? Can a 20/30/40 years old have sex with a 17 years old? Laws can't accommodate every situation, but everyone can know about and follow the law. Personally, I would rather the law protects the 17 years old from a 20/30/40 years old, then push down the age of consent. The 18 years old should understand that sex with a minor is statutory rape and refrain from it.

 

[Piper84]

In some countries the age of consent is an age bracket like 15-17, meaning that within that age bracket people can't be charged with statutory rape. I think it's a sensible solution.

 

[lhancock90]

Here we have "Statutory Rape" where a man above the age of 18 is convicted of it if he has sex with a girl under the legal consent age of 16. I think those are the numbers. First and foremost I think the term "statutory rape" needs to go. It has negative connotations and while I get that it is obviously a concern that a man is trying to have sex with a minor but there are quite a few times where I've had friends do this and they were full, willing partners.

To call it "rape" just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a crime for that, because it goes in both directions (older woman trying to sleep with minor boy or girl).

I don't believe the owness should only be on a man, in response to the poster playing devil's advocate. But on women too. It doesn't matter WHAT gender you are, you do not take advantage of someone who's clearly had too much to drink. End of! There have been times where I've been out at the bar and had friends buy me shots and then all of a sudden I'm smashed. Because I let go of my sense at the time means that I should be blamed for getting raped? Hell no.

That goes both ways, and while I do think there is a higher statistic for women to be raped than men, it doesn't mean that men can't be taken advantage of as well. But as I said before, it is no one's place to take advantage of another person - regardless of gender.

It has a negative connotation because it is meant to. Children can't consent, when one is having sex with a person who can't consent, that is rape. It doesn't matter if they seem to be "full willing partner" (instead of thinking your friend, think of an 11 year old, you will see that "willingness" is a poor criteria), the fact is that most teenagers are not good at making decisions and can be easily manipulated by adults, so the onus is on the adult (although the cut off point for "adulthood" is somewhat arbitrary) to make the decision to stay away from them.

Except "statutory rape" would include a 17 year old girl sleeping with her 18 year old boyfriend of years in some places. To me, that is wrong.

So at what point do we cut off the age for the minor and the adult? Can a 18 years old have sex with 12/13/14 years old? Can a 20/30/40 years old have sex with a 17 years old? Laws can't accommodate every situation, but everyone can know about and follow the law. Personally, I would rather the law protects the 17 years old from a 20/30/40 years old, then push down the age of consent. The 18 years old should understand that sex with a minor is statutory rape and refrain from it.

I think individual circumstances should be accounted for.

 

[Tiff]

I agree that individual situations should be accounted for.

But definitely, its hard to draw the line. Definitely no easy answers for sure. That's so sad about the girl in California, it made me physically ill to read that.

 

[Piper84]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-girl-hung-posted-pictures-abuse-online.html

Thanks for the link, but I try not to give the DM any of my clicks. I've found another link here: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...assault_posted_online_3_us_teens_charged.html

 

[Sarahkka]

Look what's launching in our city:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...ont-be-that-guy-sexual-assault.html?cmp=fbcgy

 

[Noelle610]

Look what's launching in our city:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...ont-be-that-guy-sexual-assault.html?cmp=fbcgy

That is awesome!!

 

[jessicaR4bbit]

I forgot about this thread and haven't checked it in a long time, so my apologies if I am responding to old arguments that have been buried under the rug.

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

https://www.returnofkings.com/2467/a-feminist-i-had-sex-with-spread-a-fabricated-rape-chart

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

 

[Piper84]

I forgot about this thread and haven't checked it in a long time, so my apologies if I am responding to old arguments that have been buried under the rug.

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

https://www.returnofkings.com/2467/a-feminist-i-had-sex-with-spread-a-fabricated-rape-chart

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

I've seen you use this argument before: "I'm from South Africa where things are worse, therefore you can't complain".

Your source is a blog, written by a person whose publications include:

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The forum on this man's web site includes topics such as:

"Old c*nt slaps guy in face, husband steps in and gets pushed down bleachers."

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Are you serious? Try again.

 

[Tasha]

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

Well that is just rude. You can disagree all you like but there is no need to tell people that they are talking out their ass.

The problems might be greater in Africa or some what different but that doesnt lessen what is happening here and in the US.

 

[Noelle610]

I forgot about this thread and haven't checked it in a long time, so my apologies if I am responding to old arguments that have been buried under the rug.

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

https://www.returnofkings.com/2467/a-feminist-i-had-sex-with-spread-a-fabricated-rape-chart

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

I can barely even respond to your comment!

Honestly, it's fine if you want to disagree. I'm all for a good discussion, even about something as sensitive as rape and rape culture.

But to claim "it's all in your heads"? Sorry, that's ridiculous.

The "2%" is generally thought to be the instance of false reporting for all crimes as stated by the FBI.

Also, those 70s feminists? Don't discredit them. They're responsible for a lot of the freedoms and respect that woman have today. Just because you live in a world where these things are freely given to you doesn't mean that you should discount the work they did and the impact they had on the life you have today.

 

[Bex84]

I think there is a culture, an example that happened though not rape nurse working with foreign doctor, she is friendly, he sees her smiling and saying hello as invitation and tries to force himself on her, incident reported but swept under carpet by employer. This happened to somepne i know in uk. My friend at university had drink spiked was not aware what was happening and unconscious awoke while being sat under shower, she reported and was swept under carpet again uk, a friend on charity holiday as teenager one of adults organising tried it on again was ignored. This is 3 examples from people i know, how can you say there is no culture. At university they had to change the way they served drinks due to students having their drinks spiked. I think its horrible to say people as you put in are talking out there ass. Having been with my friend after she was rapped she was treated like the suspect and the whole process was awful. When i was at school a girl walked into town for lunch and was rapped in front of church again no conviction

 

[lindseymw]

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

Wow....just wow.

I have honestly never read anything like this before!

I work in a psychological therapy service which provides CBT for people with depression and anxiety. Now, a lot of woman have anxiety due to being raped in the past and the perpetrator was never convicted. These poor women have anxiety of leaving their homes in case it happens again, they have full blown panic attacks at the very thought of leaving their house as the person responsible is still walking the streets.

Do you really think I should say to them "look I know what happened to you was bad, but you should think yourself lucky you don't live in Africa as in the UK, we don't have a rape culture at all, it's all in your head love"

 

[xemmax]

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

Since when does "yeah" constitute the summary of an argument?
I absolutely fail to see how a statistic is discredited because the author is a feminist. Pray tell!

 

[Sarahkka]

I forgot about this thread and haven't checked it in a long time, so my apologies if I am responding to old arguments that have been buried under the rug.

My post that I made previously where I said that many men are falsely accused of rape, and the responses citing that only 2% of reported rapes are false accusations - well let me tell you that is false. Do you know where the 2% figure comes from? A book, written by a feminist, in the 70's. Yeah.

https://www.returnofkings.com/2467/a-feminist-i-had-sex-with-spread-a-fabricated-rape-chart

It is actually much, much higher than that. There is no rape culture. It's all in your heads, ladies. Porn is not responsible for rape rates, nor is the patriarchy, or the media. If you want to know what a rape culture is like move to Africa. If you live in the US, the UK or any other affluent Western nation, you're talking out of your ass.

I just reported this post. In a debate thread that included multiple posts of people sharing personal stories of rape and violation, you DARE to use phrases like "it's all your heads" or "you're talking out of your ass"? Show some respect. The debates section does not mean that you can indulge yourself in rude and cruel behaviour. Your comment was the height of ignorance.